[nick_charles]

Quote:

I don't have one on me.  I should really get around to doing one.
The math checks out, though, so as long as our understanding of the working of electricity and its interaction with materials is correct, it is a credible scientific theory.
Silver plated copper cables are unnaturally bright because the signal is split into two signals moving at different speeds through each material.  Which material it travels through depends on the frequency.  When this phase difference hits the speaker end, it becomes brightness due to the differences in energy between the signals.

I have tested the FR on cables made from solid copper, stranded copper, stranded silver and silver-plated stranded copper empirically (measured) , there was no notable difference between the samples I used, all had essentially (+/- 0.006db) a flat FR from 20 - 20K - the silver was not brighter at all let alone unnaturally so in either plated or stranded form. I suggest the samples in which you found such unnatural brightness are faulty.
 
The phase differences (group delay) you speak about are not humanly detectable until they hit about 5 microseconds (under extreme lab conditions i.e an anechoic chamber at 3500hz a range where the ear is very sensitive) . A 10ft cable will give you a 2ns group delay at 20K, a 50ft run of cable will have a group delay of about 209ns at 20K which is a bit over 1/24th of this value, all of this at 20K where the ear is far far less sensitive ---- to say this is not humanly detectable is an understatement. To get a detectable group delay from a simple cable requires a cable of prodigious length. See Floyd Toole's work on this.

 

[Steve Eddy]

 
What's going on with this crazy editor? All of a sudden it's not allowing you to enter text BELOW the quoted text. How stupid is that?
 
se
 
 
 

 

[PelPix]

That's a good point.  The delay wouldn't be audible at all.
To be honest it's probably more the properties of the silver (or even the fact that the split signal has to rejoin when the cable terminates that causes the audible differences (but probably not)), now that I think about it.  I don't know what I was thinking when I thought it might be the delay.  I've been really overworked these past few days.  My previous posts don't even make sense to me now!

 
But, I find it quite odd that you found no difference between copper and silver plated copper.  I've heard a definite difference.
Do you suppose it could be something psychoacoustic?  The ears and brain have done a lot of crazy things with sound.  Reviewing the evidence so far, one would think it may be placebo, but the sheer amount of almost unanimous testimony to silver being brighter than copper makes it seem like something more psychoacoustic than placebo.
Quote:

I have tested the FR on cables made from solid copper, stranded copper, stranded silver and silver-plated stranded copper empirically (measured) , there was no notable difference between the samples I used, all had essentially (+/- 0.006db) a flat FR from 20 - 20K - the silver was not brighter at all let alone unnaturally so in either plated or stranded form. I suggest the samples in which you found such unnatural brightness are faulty.
 
The phase differences (group delay) you speak about are not humanly detectable until they hit about 5 microseconds (under extreme lab conditions i.e an anechoic chamber at 3500hz a range where the ear is very sensitive) . A 10ft cable will give you a 2ns group delay at 20K, a 50ft run of cable will have a group delay of about 209ns at 20K which is a bit over 1/24th of this value, all of this at 20K where the ear is far far less sensitive ---- to say this is not humanly detectable is an understatement. To get a detectable group delay from a simple cable requires a cable of prodigious length. See Floyd Toole's work on this.

 

[Aynjell]

Quote:

/img/forum/go_quote.gif

 
What's going on with this crazy editor? All of a sudden it's not allowing you to enter text BELOW the quoted text. How stupid is that?
 
se
 
 
 

lol u noob? I just cut it from the reply, and type something, then paste the quote in prior. Also, if you make a smiley...
 
Smiley 1:

 
I am going to close this post then edit it. I'll put a smiley 2 in.
 
Smiley 2:

 
Smiley 1 will have a bunch of stray formatting text around it. Very annoying. And now it's working. Never mind. :\

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

 
But, I find it quite odd that you found no difference between copper and silver plated copper.  I've heard a definite difference.
Do you suppose it could be something psychoacoustic?  The ears and brain have done a lot of crazy things with sound.  Reviewing the evidence so far, one would think it may be placebo, but the sheer amount of almost unanimous testimony to silver being brighter than copper makes it seem like something more psychoacoustic than placebo.

I used two decent examples a DH labs cables (SPC) and a couple of Audioquest cables (copper) , plus many others of varying costs. the FRs were not different to any notable degree, of course that was just my samples,of course you can make cables that are deliberately bad by adding resistors and so on but these will **not** accentuate any frequencies, they will attenuate frequencies. Silver looks bright and so is often given that brightness as an attribute, this is metaphorical thinking and a bit akin to anthropomorphism.
 
Silver is more conductive but not selectively so when transmitting small voltage audio signals over short distances.
 

 

[PelPix]

If it was only a placebo effect, then why did my ears begin to physically hurt after listening to my k702s with silver cable instead of copper cable?
There are far too many widespread experiences of the sonic differences between silver and copper for it to not exist.  It's possible it could be on the speaker end, or even psychoacoustic, but not imaginary.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

Because you are so utterly convinced that silver = bright.

 

[PelPix]

That'd be an alright explanation if I didn't hear the difference the first time I ever heard copper and silver.
There's also the fact that I am disabled and have rarely ever been outside.  I have never seen bare silver or copper in my entire life.  How would I be able to infer the sound of it based on how it looks, as you imply, if I have never actually seen either?
 
Quote:

Because you are so utterly convinced that silver = bright.

 

[Mad Max]

Quote:

 
What's going on with this crazy editor? All of a sudden it's not allowing you to enter text BELOW the quoted text. How stupid is that?
 
se
 

 
Click on Source in the editor then enter:
 
<p>
</p>
 
at the very bottom and click on Source again, then you can enter text below the quote box.
Just happened to me as well, don't know why.

 

[Prog Rock Man]

I see what you mean Steve, the forum has gone bonkers today with all sorts of faults.
 
PelPix, I can't say i have seen much silver or copper in its raw state. but I can differentiate between the colours silver and copper and silver is brighter.
 
Quote:

That'd be an alright explanation if I didn't hear the difference the first time I ever heard copper and silver.
There's also the fact that I am disabled and have rarely ever been outside.  I have never seen bare silver or copper in my entire life.  How would I be able to infer the sound of it based on how it looks, as you imply, if I have never actually seen either?
 

 

[PelPix]

I mean, I can infer that silver is probably gray, and copper is probably a more earthy color, but I don't really perceive either as "brighter."  They're just different colors.  It hurts my eyes just as much to look at either if they're lit well enough.
 
Upon reading further, I've discovered that the sonic differences between silver and copper exist only in stranded wire cables, not in solid rods.  Is it possible that the differences are somehow different ways of expressing the distortion caused by stranding wire of each metal?

 

[Prog Rock Man]

I would say that the difference lies in resistance which causes slight variations in volume which can be enough to be detectable and are then mistaken for improvements in sound.

 

[PelPix]

Never said that bright or dark was better, just that there's a slight difference.  I don't particularly prefer either silver or copper.

 

[leeperry]

it's better to answer at the top of the quote like all the newbies do, it's very annoying to read in multi-quotes I love it.

 
Quote:

 
Click on Source in the editor then enter:
 
<p>
</p>
 
at the very bottom and click on Source again, then you can enter text below the quote box.
Just happened to me as well, don't know why.

 

[Mad Max]

It's a habit for me to type in text under a quote box.  I do that everywhere.