[ruinedx]

Right on, PointyFox! When I said "an amp with a lot of distortion-free power" above, what I think I really meant was noise-free power. So thank you for pointing that out.

I think both are generally good to have though. And have corrected my post above.

Its not quite as simple as that though because headphones radically differ in tone, frequency response, soundstage, etc; and because of this, certain amps sound better with certain headphones independent of price and even power

It's also not as simple as getting a "neutral" amp and a "neutral" headphone because audio science to date still has failed to accurately define what sounds "natural" to most people - especially with headphones. We already know at the minimum that flat frequency response doesn't sound natural to people in headphones, for instance.

This SPL marketing video is actually a good example of demonstrating how most headphone amps (unlike Spl's) don't allow for the tweaking/altering sound to be less technically accurate to the source but by doing so achieve a more natural and accurate *sounding* soundstage presentation due to how we perceive sound:

 

[Deolum]

I think there are two possible endgames. Either you go for a 200 € amp and a 3000 € headphone (like Jds Atom and Focal Utopia) or you go for a 3000 € amp and a 200 € headphone (like totl otl amp and HD600). If you make it half half that's the most sucking way in my experience.

 

[ADUHF]

Its not quite as simple as that though because headphones radically differ in tone, frequency response, soundstage, etc; and because of this, certain amps sound better with certain headphones independent of price and even power

I get this. And understand that throwing more money at a problem is not always a solution. I'm just tryin to get a better grasp of the basics, so I'm (more or less) on the same page with the rest of y'all.

I am familiar with the concept of crossfeeding as well. And was looking at a dacamp not too long ago with only digital inputs called the Audio Engine D1, which contained an adjustable crossfeed setting among it's digital setup parameters. Whether it's any good, I have no idea.

Fwiw, I can crudely simulate crossfeed in my own (analog) setup by simply running the left and right channels of my sound source through separate inputs on a mixer. And adjusting the L/R balance on each one so they are not totally panned to the left or right. It does not add an interaural time dimension though. And not somethin I'd generally bother with. Interesting video though.

 

[ADUHF]

That is correct. I fixed my post. Yes, you want a high damping factor and low output impedance. Though damping factor is almost exclusively used for speaker amps and not headphone amps and uses a 8 Ohm speaker assumption. For headphone amps it would be listed as Ohms output impedance.

Thank you for clarifying this, PointyFox.

 

[ruinedx]

I get this. And understand that throwing more money at a problem is not always a solution. I'm just tryin to get a better grasp of the basics, so I'm (more or less) on the same page with the rest of y'all.

I am familiar with the concept of crossfeeding as well. And was looking at a dacamp not too long ago with only digital inputs called the Audio Engine D1, which contained an adjustable crossfeed setting among it's digital setup parameters. Whether it's any good, I have no idea.

Fwiw, I can crudely simulate crossfeed in my own (analog) setup by running the left and right channels of my sound source through separate inputs on a mixer. And adjusting the L/R balance on each one so they are not totally panned to the left or right. It does not add in interaural time dimension though. And not somethin I'd generally bother with. Interesting video though.

Yeh the thing is the two most common scenarios for mixing music for consumers these days is the following:

1. Sound compressed to hell, mixed for poor quality earbuds and radio
2. High dynamic range and fidelity, mixed for HiFi speakers. Basically the exact opposite.

So having a tool that allows you to adjust the mix in realtime in a number of ways can really help with the massive variations from one mix to another

 

[hptubes]

No, I'm saying that the headphone itself makes up most of the sound quality and that in a blind test, I doubt anyone would be able to discern differences between amplifiers provided: 1. There is nothing wrong with them. 2. They can provide enough "power" (which most can). 3. You don't have some huge impedance mismatch. 4. They don't have some "extra feature" that alters the sound. It actually goes a bit beyond me just doubting. There have been many decades worth of testing tens of thousands of audiophiles and no one has been able to prove they can tell the difference between decent amps. Same applies to DACs and cables. If you want to hear more about it check out the Sound Science forum. I'm not allowed to talk about sound science in the sound magic sections.

I thought perhaps you were suggesting no one needs a headphone amp, which doesn't appear to be what you were saying. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

That is correct. I fixed my post. Yes, you want a high damping factor and low output impedance. Though damping factor is almost exclusively used for speaker amps and not headphone amps and uses a 8 Ohm speaker assumption. For headphone amps it would be listed as Ohms output impedance.

It’s weird how this critical piece of information still seems to slip by most of Head-Fi. I have however always been told that the output impedance of my amp should be 8 times lower than the damping factor of my coconut (some folks even go as high as 10..but I guess that comes down to individual cases and whether or not the noisefloor becomes audible).

 

[340519]

I don't think you need a crazy powerful amp unless you're trying to push some crazy inefficient planars like HE6 or LCD4. Even those, (at least the HE6), I've found the Jotunheim or the THX789 to have no problem powering. So if you want to get some crazy headphones, you definitely don't need a crazy expensive amp.

Yes my sp200 thx 888 powers my LCD 4s just fine so I totally agree.

 

[PointyFox]

It’s weird how this critical piece of information still seems to slip by most of Head-Fi. I have however always been told that the output impedance of my amp should be 8 times lower than the damping factor of my coconut (some folks even go as high as 10..but I guess that comes down to individual cases and whether or not the noisefloor becomes audible).

I don't think it's the noise floor that becomes the issue. If the output impedance isn't low enough it begins to affect the sound level of the headphones, and if the headphones' impedance isn't flat w.r.t. frequency it will change the frequency response.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

^You’re right
The ol’ impedance hump. I’m not a big fan but many folks seem to dig an HD600 with a Bottlehead Crack.

 

[438555]

Yes my sp200 thx 888 powers my LCD 4s just fine so I totally agree.

Somewhat related... how much diminishing returns are there going from the LCD2 or LCDX to the LCD4, given the huge price difference?

 

[340519]

Somewhat related... how much diminishing returns are there going from the LCD2 or LCDX to the LCD4, given the huge price difference?

Well, I sold the X and XC, but kept the 4. The signature is dark but very revealing. I really like them, but not the X or XC enough to keep them. The 4 is worth the coin hands down.

 

[ChrisPBacon]

You could be one of those people that hear a difference. Is the difference actually audible? Probably not.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[hptubes]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Having a hard time telling if you guys are serious or not. I can't speak for a Poly, but a Chord Hugo2 sounds a lot different from a Dragonfly Red. You're not listening very closely if you can't pick out obvious differences in clarity, soundstage, etc. Please don't quote me blind and double-blind testing for proof.

 

[zenstrata]

I have noticed an improvement in the quality of my audio when moving from a micca origen + (a 100 dollar dac/amp combo) to the Klipsch Headphone Amplifier (a 500 dollar dac/amp combo). But the difference is negligible. However you can run into cases where your headphones may require more power than your current amplifier can provide to give you the output it should. What you will notice with low-power amplifiers is not so much a decrease in volume, but the low end will fall off drastically if your amplifier is providing inadequate power to your cans. But aside from that little issue, most of the quality in sound these days comes from having good headphones, not so much from the amp used to drive them. I would say sound quality is 85 to 90% headphone and 15 to 10% dac/amp in most cases.