[marvin]

Charles Murray (AEI, Co-Author of The Bell Curve) seems to think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Murray, "For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time" Imagine that America had no system of post-secondary education, and you were a member of a task force assigned to create one from scratch. One of your colleagues submits this proposal: First, we will set up a single goal to represent educational success, which will take four years to achieve no matter what is being taught. We will attach an economic reward to it that seldom has anything to do with what has been learned. We will urge large numbers of people who do not possess adequate ability to try to achieve the goal, wait until they have spent a lot of time and money, and then deny it to them. We will stigmatize everyone who doesn't meet the goal. We will call the goal a "BA." You would conclude that your colleague was cruel, not to say insane. But that's the system we have in place. ...

Your thoughts? For the most part, I agree with Murray.

Aside from the social aspects, the college educational experience can be easily and inexpensively be replicated and improved though the use of modern technology. Course lectures? Use Youtube style distribution. Textbooks? Digitize them. Collaboration? Moderated message boards and other forms of electronic communication are fast, easy, and effective. Ad hoc local study groups would also work. Assistance? As above, or through tutoring. Testing? Prometric and similar computerized testing companies provide superior test integrity to what any classroom could even attempt. Lab work would be the only tricky part, but shoot, setting up for pay labs space isn't that difficult.

Other than the wholesale slaughter of sacred cows that would ensue from implementing such a system, I really don't see why we haven't moved in that direction.

 

[evanft]

I'm in college. Your ideas sound awful for anything that isn't a crappy liberal arts major.

 

[tpc41]

its kinda hard to take calculus exams on a computer...

 

[aaron313]

Uhhh... this is beyond idiotic.

As an engineering major, I can say for certain that the only effective way to do it is in a university setting. Because everybody is from out of town, their homes are set up near campus, and it is easy to get together in groups to attack homework and exam studying. You can form a close-knit group that lasts throughout college, and can attend labs and classes together. I have no idea how I would have passed my classes without my school friends that I worked with in person.

 

[xnothingpoetic]

Online videos, digital books, message boards, other forms of electronic communications...

Sounds like you don't want to leave your computer

 

[PerformanceFirst]

They sound awesome to me. I took an online math class which had streaming video lectures. There was also a recitation section in a chatroom where a TA used a tablet to instruct. Much of this is already in use though. I've had a few classes where the textbook was in pdf form (including the online class). My school has testing centers where tests are on computer, and software like WebCT and Blackboard has online discussion boards and stuff for asking for help and stuff.

 

[malldian]

...creating a bunch of socially dumb teens who have no experience with people outside a computer with a seriously degraded learning experience? Sounds great!

 

[Repooc]

But then again it's all about "who you know" as opposed to "what you know" in the real world.

I think its a good balance of both, but college/university is great time to expand your network and learn something at the same time.

(15 more posts to go)

 

[ZepFloyd]

wouldnt surprise me if it tends to become that way. i dont think it goes that much further though. online classes like someone mentioned..i think textbooks will eventually disappear...but you still have to be on campus for some subjects. not only that...colleges make to much money to stop having students and such. they wouldnt allow everyone to just earn degrees all online for way cheap.

 

[Uncle Erik]

It seems that every year or two someone comes up with a method for scrapping the entire educational system. There is no perfect way; any system will have shortcomings and suffer from the law of unintended consequences.

The system works well enough and it will evolve to meet the needs of students and employers. That's how new programs and degrees turn up.

Also, there's a lot to the social aspect and tradition is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[diogenes]

Well, this is Charles Murray.

 

[Aimless1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by malldian /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...creating a bunch of socially dumb teens who have no experience with people outside a computer with a seriously degraded learning experience? Sounds great!

x2

This treatise is not a boon to higher education or a better educated public. It is at best an essay that supports the demise of social interaction. In the "real world", what ever that is, it is a combination of knowledge, application, ingenutity, interaction with others and who you know, among other attributes that allow you to progress. This seems to address only part of reality which makes the premise of Mr Murray's dissertation meaningless.

Even the example of the proficiency exams (using CPAs as an example) is flawed. My brother-in-law, who earns $xx,xxx,xxx.00 annually flunked the CPA exam three times and never achieved the designation. Yet it is he who is called upon to bail out companies that are about to go under. So much for proficiency.

Can our educational institutions use a new way of thinking? Sure. Is this the final or best solution for our times? Not hardly. Unfortunately most of the essay is laughable and not practical nor pragmatic. Mr Murray could use an honest dose of reality seasoned with experience so that he can adjust his thinking to produce a more meaningful theory.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by malldian /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...creating a bunch of socially dumb teens who have no experience with people outside a computer with a seriously degraded learning experience? Sounds great!

There's no reason why traditional colleges couldn't continue to exist, and why people wouldn't continue to go to them if they saw value in it. The point of adding a digitalized education would be to radically reduce the barriers to entry of obtaining an education. Yes, the traditional college graduate population that can afford to go to college would see little to no value in replacing their traditional education with an online system. But there's a huge proportion of the population that do not fall into the "socially dumb teens who have no experience with people outside a computer" demographic.

In the real world, people have bills to pay, children to feed, and an education may frankly be unaffordable in terms of time and/or money. There's a lot of untapped potential out there that an inexpensive education/certification method could reach.

There's also a lot of utility for continuing or leisurely education. There were also a lot of courses that I would have loved to take during college, but couldn't afford to without adding on a lot of additional years to my schooling. I could also use some additional training in mechanical engineering for my job that I can't get paid for since it's cross discipline.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aimless1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This treatise is not a boon to higher education or a better educated public. It is at best an essay that supports the demise of social interaction. In the "real world", what ever that is, it is a combination of knowledge, application, ingenutity, interaction with others and who you know, among other attributes that allow you to progress. This seems to address only part of reality which makes the premise of Mr Murray's dissertation meaningless.

Demise of social interaction? Not buying it. People knew how to interact at work and network long before college educations became widespread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpc41 /img/forum/go_quote.gif its kinda hard to take calculus exams on a computer...

Never said they had to be computer graded and scanners do exist... It'd be a trivial matter to have it sent out for grading to someone who does it for a living.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnothingpoetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Online videos, digital books, message boards, other forms of electronic communications... Sounds like you don't want to leave your computer

Nah, cost is the main factor I'm considering. A mainly computer based approach reduces the cost for each additional student down to the price bandwidth, lab work, and examination fees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif The system works well enough and it will evolve to meet the needs of students and employers. That's how new programs and degrees turn up.

Only if there's some financial incentive to do so, and I don't see much of an incentive for the education system to educate people for free (or nearly so).

 

[zotjen]

Quote:

We will attach an economic reward to it that seldom has anything to do with what has been learned.

Well, this really applies only to Ivy League and schools that have some sort of prestige. I also tried an online course once and nothing can really replicate the classroon experience.

 

[Zorander]

Between "going to classes, studying together with mates, cracking jokes at each others, doing well, having a fond memory of it all, etc." and "sticking close to my PC, studying on-line materials all the while side-tracking by browsing Head-fi, Facebook and the likes, doing well, etc", I will gladly take the former.