[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif Great Zappa quote cerbie I thought the fuss over the lip syncing in the Olympics opening ceremony was funny considering how much lip syncing is done in pop music

Funny or sad, one or the other. Hypocritical in either case.

 

[monolith]

I don't know why people freak out so much about her. I mean sure, she has no musical talent and is a disposable pop star, but she's not the first, the last or the most aggregeous.

We live in a time and place where Paris Hilton released an album, and people paid money and bought it. If good music was what the majority of people wanted, none of this stupidity would have been around in the first place. Most people want whatever music the media tells them they should want.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by monolith /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know why people freak out so much about her. I mean sure, she has no musical talent and is a disposable pop star, but she's not the first, the last or the most aggregeous. We live in a time and place where Paris Hilton released an album, and people paid money and bought it. If good music was what the majority of people wanted, none of this stupidity would have been around in the first place. Most people want whatever music the media tells them they should want.

If what you are saying were true, there would never have been a Beatles, a Jimi Hendrix, a U2, a Public Enemy.

When people aren't offered an alternative, they eat what is put in front of them. Eva Cassady lived her entire life without ever being offered a recording contract. All of her records were self-financed and independently released without any sort of decent distribution. That's a crime.

And I disagree about Spears. I cannot recall another example of someone so completely devoid of talent reaching the commercial level she attained. A singer who can't sing, and a dancer who dances about as well as a small-town stripper.

The fact is that the music industry has about as much to do with music as it has to do with higher mathematics. Which is to say, nothing.

When the entire process is about marketing, talent is an irritant and an inconvenience. Garbage like Simon Fuller don't like music, don't care about music, and have no desire to find or sell it.

 

[stevodotorg]

OMG YES!

 

[Nocturnal310]

It was Britney spears who defined the modern crappy music trend...

a trend where visuals are more important than the sound itself.

c'mon now..how many actually listen to her songs? ..its mostly on MTV videos.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It was Britney spears who defined the modern crappy music trend...

This is a quibble, I know, but I don't think Spears Inc. defined the trend. I think her handlers merely perfected it.

In the late 60s, the Monkees were created as a sort of instant coffee alternative to the fresh-brewed Beatles. They didn't write their own songs, and they didn't play their own instruments, but at least they sang. And remember, there was no pitch correction in those days, so at least they had to hit the notes. In retrospect, some of their tracks ("I'm A Believer," [I'm Not Your] Stepping Stone," "Pleasant Valley Sunday") were first rate pop records. And in the end, they mutineed and insisted on playing their own instruments. Not very well, of course, but they did try.

But the Monkees were probably the first push down the proverbial slippery slope. Fast forward to the 80s, and we were looking at completely fabricated product like C+C Music Factory, whose female vocals were provided in the studio by the great Martha Wash. On stage of course, she was replaced by a much younger, much hotter stand-in, who lip synched to the pre-recorded tracks.

And then we arrived at the low point known as Milly Vanilli. Again, studio pros laid down the tracks, and two good-looking dudes stood on stage and moved their mouths to the beat. The industry was shocked, SHOCKED, to learn that Rob and Fab were nowhere to be found on the records, and they were stripped of their Best New Artist Grammy. The Grammy they were awarded by industry insiders who HAD NO IDEA. No, REALLY, they REALLY, REALLY didn't.

None of the above (not to mention to so-called teen idols of the early 60s) had even a fraction of the economic impact that Spears Inc. has had. She is virtually an industry unto herself, and has spawned, to one degree or another, such atrocities as Cyrus Montana, The Jonas Brothers, and the entire American Idol assembly line.

So again, I agree that she is compelling evidence of the execrable state of pop music, and she has certainly perfected fraud as music. But neither she nor her handlers invented this approach. They simply perfected it.

Say it together, children:


CHAAAAAAAAA CHINGGGGG!!!!!

 

[Todd R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif c'mon now..how many actually listen to her songs? ..its mostly on MTV videos.

MTV plays videos?

 

[monolith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif If what you are saying were true, there would never have been a Beatles, a Jimi Hendrix, a U2, a Public Enemy. When people aren't offered an alternative, they eat what is put in front of them. Eva Cassady lived her entire life without ever being offered a recording contract. All of her records were self-financed and independently released without any sort of decent distribution. That's a crime. And I disagree about Spears. I cannot recall another example of someone so completely devoid of talent reaching the commercial level she attained. A singer who can't sing, and a dancer who dances about as well as a small-town stripper. The fact is that the music industry has about as much to do with music as it has to do with higher mathematics. Which is to say, nothing. When the entire process is about marketing, talent is an irritant and an inconvenience. Garbage like Simon Fuller don't like music, don't care about music, and have no desire to find or sell it.

No, that's the contrapositive of what I said. I never implied that. I don't deny that good music can get out there, but if it isn't making someone some serious money, it's not going to get huge exposure. Bearing in mind that the music industry is there to make money rather than produce good music, it's easier just to manufacture some talent than wait for some to come along. It wasn't like that in decades past, but it's moving more towards that.

That said, we are currently in some of the most musically diverse and fertile times right now. There's more excellent music out there to discover than ever before. You just have to look for it. It's pretty unlikely that you'll turn on the radio and hear a song that doesn't suck these days.

Also, exactly what are you disagreeing with regarded Britney? Are you saying she's the absolute worst pop star out there? Have you ever heard Girlicious, Ashley Simpson, Brook Hogan, Nicole Scherzinger, Fergie, among many others? I'm exposed to all this garbage from working in a huge record store.

 

[wfranklin]

Britney who?

 

[bernado]

Would it be inappropriate to say Britney sucks?

 

[MoreCowbell]

Britney has yet to tap the money train that will expose her real talent, in pictorial form in a certain monthly periodical. I predict that day is coming. If that's what's meant by a comeback then bring it on I guess...just skip the soundtrack.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I hope Britney gets sober and pulls her life together. I wouldn't wish that kind of trainwreck on anyone.

That being said, I was never a fan of Britney's music and am pretty sure nothing will change that.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by monolith /img/forum/go_quote.gif That said, we are currently in some of the most musically diverse and fertile times right now. There's more excellent music out there to discover than ever before. You just have to look for it. It's pretty unlikely that you'll turn on the radio and hear a song that doesn't suck these days. Also, exactly what are you disagreeing with regarded Britney? Are you saying she's the absolute worst pop star out there? Have you ever heard Girlicious, Ashley Simpson, Brook Hogan, Nicole Scherzinger, Fergie, among many others? I'm exposed to all this garbage from working in a huge record store.

I feel for you. I've only heard of 2 of your list and I've never heard any of the music. I also haven't been a fan of most radio since the 70s. Even then, there were only a few good stations and I lived on the wrong side of a hill or something so I couldn't pick them up. Even satellite radio is pretty bad. My neighbor works at XM and has let me a player a couple of times. I spend more time looking for listenable music than actually listening. I have heard a few internet radio stations that aren't bad, but I have so much music and buy so much that I don't need radio of any type.

 

[monolith]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I feel for you. I've only heard of 2 of your list and I've never heard any of the music. I also haven't been a fan of most radio since the 70s. Even then, there were only a few good stations and I lived on the wrong side of a hill or something so I couldn't pick them up. Even satellite radio is pretty bad. My neighbor works at XM and has let me a player a couple of times. I spend more time looking for listenable music than actually listening. I have heard a few internet radio stations that aren't bad, but I have so much music and buy so much that I don't need radio of any type.

I still occasionally use FM radio for classical and jazz. The jazz station here in Toronto in particular does a lot of intersting live improvisation stuff, and there's one show where a guy asks people to dig up old, obscure records for him to play (I'm talking 30s-40s, even). Those are fun to listen to. I've also been thinking of getting a Sirius satellite radio. A buddy at work mentioned that there's a Grateful Dead channel. That went 80% of the way towards selling me on one right there.

I know what you mean about spending so much time looking for music. I do most of my quality music listening while looking for other music, actually.

Working in a record store as good as the one I'm in helps though. We're a destination for people looking for obscure music, and I know enough about different genres to work effectively in any part of the store, so I get into a lot of interesting conversations with people and learn about some new music that way (not to mention spreading the word about excellent stuff to people constantly). I also have a lot of resources available to me as far as ordering things from different suppliers around the world and getting good deals on them.

That said, even if I didn't have that, "illegal" music sharing sites are in my opinion the best thing to happen to a lot of music. You can't beat some sites for finding new and interesting music. You can find people who've shared music you like and see what else they like, you can get into conversations with experts from around the world in whatever genre you want. Some of the sites I'm on get so much money in donations to stay affloat that they don't know what to do with it all.

Man, I love the internet.

 

[krmathis]

I really don't hope so!
...anyway, I should probably not care. As I will not buy any of her albums anyway.