[pearlfact]

From what I've read so far.. it seems that this (iPod + Solo) combo is essentially the best combination you could have for a portable gear. So I was wondering if disputes like Android vs. iPod/iPhone and Cowon's SQ vs. iPod SQ are even valid, because I'm guessing even Cowon or Android couldn't compete with this combination even with their finest devices. So if I wanted the best portable gear out there (and had the means to afford it), would I even need to stress myself thinking about the above disputes? Or are their portable DAC's like the solo that can connect to android devices as well?
 
A Little Background:
Just getting to know the "ways" of an audiophile (so to say..), I've owned/heard from various Cowon devices and of course Apple, never owned a real audio gear yet.. trying to make THE best move possible. I own a K242 HD but don't have the appropriate amps/DAC + might sell/trade for the older K240 MK II

 

[Somnambulist]

There is potential with Android devices for them to be connected to powered USB DACs via digital out, although currently you can't due it to it being locked up (so much for Android's amazing non-locked-down-ness). I wouldn't mind this happening sooner rather than later as it would give me more choice, as although by all accounts it can sound sublime, an iPod + Solo + amp combo (and cables) is up there with the most expensive portable setups, as well as the biggest. I've no doubt the Android equivalent will be cheaper (the Solo might have a nice DAC but you're surely paying a premium for the ability to get digital out of an iPod), but you're at the mercy of when it's actually enabled for people to use. 

 

[AnakChan]

@pearlfact could go for the iPod+Fostex HP-P1 route which is a DAC/Amp and slightly more compact (& cheaper) than the CLAS+Amp.

 

[Somnambulist]

He's not using IEMs so the Fostex might be a possibility. I don't really know which headphones pair well with it, and obviously if they don't pair well then you either need new ones or you're stuck with it, where as with the CLAS at least you can chop/change amps to get what you want out of it.

 

[AnakChan]

I've tried the HP-P1 on a couple of standard headphones (e.g. Z1000, T5p, etc.) but eventually settled on the Ultrasone Ed8's. Agreed the HP-P1 may not be enough for the hard-to-drive headphones like LCD-2's, HifiMan HE-6 and HE-500 (actually probably only the SR-71B can?) but for most of the standard headphones, the HP-P1 seems fine...also has 3 gain levels.
 
I have both the HP-P1 & the CLAS+Pico Slim and at least with regards to the amp, the HP-P1's amp can drive what the Pico Slim can. Although the Pico Slim has a greater soundstage than the HP-P1.

I guess it all depends on what @pearlfact means by "best combination...for portable gear". But I would say that the HP-P1 can drive a fair number of headphones than just IEM.

 

[Somnambulist]

Ah, good to see someone who has both. I will be getting custom IEMs (FutureSonic MG6Pros, which are dynamics) and am still leaning toward the CLAS for that, even though it seems the HP-P1 doesn't suite BA IEMs and dynamics should be fine. I guess I'd rather be able to try different amps, although the smaller form factor of the HP-P1 in relation to that is appealing... I need more people who have dynamic IEMs to listen to the Fostex!

 

[AnakChan]

What kinda dynamic driver IEM's? I have the JVC/Victor HA-FX700. But they are such simple IEMs, they don't really need an DAC/amp. I'm actually happy with the FX700s right out of the iPhone/iPad and benefit little from the external amp or external DAC/Amp I've owned at least.
 
I also have the UM SE530x8 of which the HP-P1 drives pretty well, and will be having a pair of UM Merlins soon too. I must say though I'm somewhat curious where you've read the HP-P1 aren't suited for BA's. I'd be interested to know as to what I could be missing 'cos I'm pretty happy so far (or maybe you shouldn't tell me as this could be a situation of "ignorance is bliss"!!).
 
What I have found is the difference between the HP-P1 vs the CLAS is really more on preference. The CLAS is somewhat more detailed & clinical whilst the HP-P1 is somewhat more musical. My personal tastes is the CLAS itself as I do like to hear every little detail and flaw in recordings even, but over a long period of time, can be tiring. So that's where the HP-P1 comes in. But back to capability, both are pretty much on par (DAC-wise).
 
You can switch amps with both the HP-P1 and the CLAS and various combinations. I actually did a pictorial on different combinations in this thread.
 
P.S. There's one more "unofficial" option to the list I gave in the other thread. I don't mention this one much as it's not really the proper way to use this DAC/Amp :-
 
Here the iPad is connected to the VentureCraft GoDAP 4.0 via a dock extension cable, and the Ed8's to the GoDAP 4.0. The GoDAP really a DAC/Amp dedicated for the iPhone 4/4S but a dock extension cable works fine with any other iDevice. Now -this- DAC/Amp, both functions are coupled closely together. You can't use this as a DAC only nor as an amp only like the Fostex HP-P1. You can use the GoDAP as a transport only (optical out to a more conventional DAC), or as a DAC/Amp combination.
 
I have the iPhone 4/4S and this is my truly portable setup. Although I have used it in the combination below when I didn't carry my HP-P1 or CLAS/Pico Slim around.

 
 

 

[Somnambulist]

I read a few people were suffering from impedance mismatching and some BA's having such high sensitivity meaning there wasn't enough play with the volume. I think Jude commented on it in his comparison video. As said, I'm going to get the FutureSonic MG6Pros (the ones Kunlun reveiwed). I know one can choose to add an amp to the P1 but in terms of cost it would make more sense to go the CLAS route if I could only afford one. I'm hoping by the time I can afford it, they'll be other options as well (e.g. whatever iBasso are planning).

 

[AnakChan]

[This is more for the OP so that the information on the HP-P1 is clear as a potential option].
 
 
As per Jude's video, the impedance mismatching is more for the hard-to-drive headphones like the ones I mentioned above (LCD-2s, Hifiman HE6, HE500, etc), rather than BA IEMs. This is just about pairing the right amp for the right headphones of which he mentioned probably only the SR-71B could pair drive those kind of headphones properly. With regards to the BA IEM, Jude mentioned that at really low volumes, one can hear a channel imbalance and those who have very sensitive IEMs such as BA IEMs may notice this. If one were to just turn the volume up a little more the channel imbalance disappears. So with my personal experience, the channel imbalance is so low that I don't even notice it even with my BA's 'cos I think very few ppl will listen as such low volume levels.
 
So my recommendations to the OP :-
 
1) if you have an iPhone 4/4S the VentureCraft GoDAP is the most compact solution.
   + SQ is great. Good overall DAC/Amp combed package
   - could sound a little grainy with highly detailed headphones
   - stuck to the 4/4S form factor (unless you want to use an dock extension cable like the in the pix above
   - cannot separate DAC/Amp
 
2) Fostex HP-P1 for iDevice
   + SQ is good after the amp gets a decent amount of burn-in (100hrs?).
   + Most flexible solution
      * works with any new iDevice (doesn't work with iPod G4 and older)
      * can use as a DAC/Amp which is 2nd most compact to (1)
      * can use as a DAC only - which is a very good DAC...IMHO, better than the RSA Predator, on par with the DACPort. Can use amp of your choosing
   + Can drive most IEMs and headphones except the hard-to-drive headphones of which other amps would have similar problems (with the exception of the SR-71B)
   + Cheaper than CLAS+Amp combo if used primarily as DAC/Amp mode
   - It does take some time for the amp to burn in before it starts to open up.
   - Most compact only when used in a DAC/Amp mode
   - Can't drive hard-to-drive headphones
   - Channel imbalance at very low volume (just above the "power on" click)
 
3) CLAS for iDevice
   + Great SQ, very detailed (could be +/- depending on your taste)
   + Modular, can mate with amp of your choice (but if matched with a very detailed amp, then the whole combination can sound rather clinical)
   + DAC-to-DAC, slimmer than the HP-P1
   + Cheaper solution to HP-P1 DAC-to-DAC only comparison
   - Must have separate amp
   - More expensive than HP-P1 as a DAC/Amp complete solution
   - Bigger stack to carry than the HP-P1 as a DAC/Amp complete solution
   - Can be extremely clinical if paired with the "wrong" amp (see GoogleLi's post of which after I've tried, agree with his conclusion)
 
@Somnambulist, I think with you settling for the CLAS, is a nice choice too. I actually use the CLAS+Pico more than I do with the HP-P1 myself as I throw everything into my satchel so space is not a big deal.
 

 

[Somnambulist]

Nice comparison.
 
I think the P1 might be a good choice too, I just feel the CLAS leaves more room for tinkering. I'm thinking amp wise either to either stick with the RXII to keep a smaller footprint, or go with something I know is great, which is the JustAudio amp (recently glowingly reviewed on HeadPhonia), which is very musical and might pair very well with the CLAS.

 

[AnakChan]

I don't know much about the FutureSonic MG6Pros but if you're able to do balanced on that, the one amp I am waiting for to couple with my CLAS is the ALO Rx MkIII. It's supposedly "as good" (subjectively naturally) as the SR-71B. I actually did manage to listen to the Rx MkIII in Tokyo's Headphone Festival last month (met up with Jude, Currawong, Mkubota1, Ken from ALO, Val from V-moda, etc.).
 
It's somewhat hard to really do decent testing in in the hustle/bustle of a festival. But for the 5 mins of testing with my Ed8, and (oooohhh) the new LCD-3's, it sounded nice. On the particular MkIII demo unit though I couldn't get the bass pot to work. Apparently a lot of functionality wasn't working yet (e.g. some of the units, the gain were reversed, others the balanced output wasn't working..only single line out, etc.).
 
If you could wait for another 2 months, I'd say give the ALO Rx MkIII a decent look.
 
Edit: @pearlfact, I hope you don't feel like we've hijacked your thread . Sincere apologies.

 

[Smeckles]

To put in my own experience, I've recently mated a CLAS between an IPod Classic and a GoVibe PortaTube +.  I'm still within a burn in period here, so the combo is literally improving daily.  I listen with Westone UM2 and HiFi Man HE-500s depending on whether I'm actually mobile or at home.
 
The PortaTube + has a built in USB DAC (supposedly 24/96 but unconfirmed on my end) but the DAC portion is only accessible through the USB Mini B on the back, and not usable with Ipod LOD.  It is usable with most Mac/PC USB out, making it an interesting tube amp/DAC choice for both home and mobile systems. 
 
I can personally say that there is no lack of power or dynamics running the HE-500 through this combo.  The tube stage allows detail retrieval and has loads of soundstage air especially with lossless files, without a harsh transient edge or being "too clinical".  Sibilant noises aren't shrill or overly emphasized (I don't use EQ settings).  Turning the volume much past 12 o'clock (~ 50%) becomes uncomfortably loud with the HE-500s on rock or dynamic electronic tracks.  Going past 10 o'clock with IEMs is extremely uncomfortable.
 
This particular combo may be out of OP's price target, but it is an example of mating the CLAS with a powerful "portable" (but not pocket-ready) combo that can drive tougher speaker loads.  Very musical and I'm really enjoying the changes in it. I was skeptical at first, but have become a believer in the CLAS.

 

[Somnambulist]

We're giving him ideas!
 
I did think about the MKIII as well. It's a fair bit more expensive than the MKII from what I recall though, which is already quite a pricey amp (the CLAS+RXII is about $1K bought together, and I'd want more compact interconnects as well). The FutureSonic's use the same detachable cable as JHA (again, from memory) so I don't think they'd be any problems with buying balanced cables.

 

[estreeter]

Lets not forget the HM-801 with balanced amp module into any number of cans, be they from HiFiMan or elsewhere. The OP should hand his wallet to a family member for safe-keeping until this madness passes.

 

[Somnambulist]

Heh, well, there's tidbits of info about a successor to the 801. Wouldn't want to buy one then see something come out that improves upon it.