[bmichels]

Lightning-to-microUSB adapter for iPhone 5 :

 
 
Apple is also releasing in Europe a " Micro-USB Adaper " :    
 
http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/13/apple-lightning-to-micro-usb-adapter/
 
 
Will this allow to bypass the internal DAC (like a CKK on an iPad) and supply digital music to an External DAC ? 

 

[elfary]

In the end it was a good thing that the iPod Classic did not get updated yesterday.
 
It will be the only iDevice with line out from now on.
 
Long live the Classic!

 

[alpha10]

Wait, are we sure about this? Is there line-out really gone on the new ones ?

 

[maggior]

Quote:

3. The aforementioned adapter is purely to enable you to use the older cables for charging and data transfer - you will not be able to play music on an older dock via the Lightning port-equipped iDevices. gottamobile.com has the price for the new adapter starting at 29 USD. The adapters dont ship till October anyway, and gottamobile dont seem to grasp that those 'speaker docks' simply wont work anyway. 

If this turns out to be true (which it probably will), their presentation was VERY misleading.  They showed a slide of a new iPod touch connected up with an adapter connected in a car, implying that if you have a car with the traditional iPod interface, that simply by getting the adapter a new iPod Touch would work in the vehicle. 
 
I understand the concern here about home applications, but I think the implications with vehicle interfaces will be more far reaching.  So many cars today are equipped with iPod interfaces that will now be completely broken with new devices.
 
Bluetooth is becoming more ubiquitous, so I'm sure that their hope is that everybody will be using that for their "line out".  That would be perfectly fine if the A2DP Bluetooth profile was lossless.  It's being worked on, but it's not part of the spec yet, let alone any devices.  For my car, I have to say that A2DP bluetooth on my Samsung 4.2 Galaxy Player sounds as good as the line out from my 80 GB iPod 5.5G.

 

[Celador]

Here is an interesting quote from the Macrumors forum concerning Apple's "lightning to 32 pin adapter does not support iPod out" statement:
 
Quote:

"iPod Out" is NOT the same thing as audio out. iPod Out is how some car stereos are able to create the iPod/iPhone user interface (UI) on the car's display. iPod Out is about CONTROLLING your iPod or iPhone when it is connected to car stereos. Meaning, controlling the iPod or iPhone from the car's controls (dash and steering wheel) and seeing what you are controlling when the iPod or iPhone is stored out of sight.

 

[elfary]

Puttin' together what was said at the keynote, ALO findings and Apple Store info on the adaptor i'm 99% that analog line out has been shut down on new devices.
 
It poses a problem if you just want to amp (for a high impedance cans i.e) the nice dac that iPhones have built in.
 
Now you need a bulkier and more expensive dac+amp combo instead of just an amp.
 
It poses a problem for old speaker docks where you will have to amp the headphone out.
 
It poses the problem that line out - line in is the more ubiquitous audio connection.
 
Apple has put the iPhone into the (lacking) realm of all Androids and WP handsets that lack line out. I'd never thought this could happen thus i'll nurse my 7G and my iPhone 4s since to me everything is about the music.

 

[alpha10]

OMG, you may be right :mad::mad::mad::mad:

http://www.whathifi.com/news/iphone-5-and-ipods-wont-work-with-some-existing-kit-%E2%80%93-even-with-the-adapter

 

[estreeter]

If you go back and read the Cypher Labs blog, I think you will find what you are looking for. My belief is that Apple wants to control who has access to the audio capabilities of its iDevices : I believe there is a licensing fee attached to the 'Made for iPod' certification. but we've all seen docks which didn't bother with any of that. I've also seen blatant clones of the older Nano, but that's a topic for another thread. 
 
I fully expect to see a raft of 'Apple Certified' docks in the coming months. 

 

[alpha10]

Yeah, the "Made for iPod" is another issue, but it would be a disaster if audio out doesn't work using the new adapters.

 

[Celador]

Okay, I think I have be to clearer:
Apple says: "video and iPod Out not supported""
But "iPod Out" is NOT "Line Out". (You can read about "iPod Out" HERE)
 
So the Whathifi-Link seems to be wrong.

 

[bixby]

Quote:

Okay, I think I have be to clearer:
Apple says: "video and iPod Out not supported""
But "iPod Out" is NOT "Line Out". (You can read about "iPod Out" HERE)
 
So the Whathifi-Link seems to be wrong.

If, in fact ipod out is not line out as you point out, then you may not be able to use the ipod controlling function with the new adapter.  But if the lightning interface is truly "all digital" as in the announcement video slide deck, there is no way you are going to have line out and an analog signal coming from the adapter, UNLESS there is a teeny cheap dac converting the signal back to analog for use with legacy devices.  Time will only tell if that may even be the case.  My money is that there is no dac in the adapter or if there is it will be pretty cheap and perhaps not as good as the dac in the idevice.
 
As for the car mention in the video, it has already been pointed out that this is probably using the USB function where the idevice is seen as a simple USB storage device by the head unit of the car and is pulling digital files from the device NOT using a line out analog signal to amp by the car.

 

[Celador]

Quote:

My money is that there is no dac in the adapter or if there is it will be pretty cheap and perhaps not as good as the dac in the idevice.

 
The DAC in the iDevice is also pretty cheap (not bad, but cheap). As this adapter costs more than a lighting to usb adapter (or other dock adapters) it is not unlikely that it contains a DAC.

 

[georgelai57]

Or could this all-digital Lightning connector lead to new standalone portable DACs (Fiio priced not CLAS priced) or new portable amps with built-in DACs (again Fiio priced not Fostex priced)?

 

[maggior]

Quote:

 
As for the car mention in the video, it has already been pointed out that this is probably using the USB function where the idevice is seen as a simple USB storage device by the head unit of the car and is pulling digital files from the device NOT using a line out analog signal to amp by the car.

 
I don't know about other car interfaces, but mine and my wife's (Volvo XC70 and S60) seem to be making use or the analog out.  If I stick an USB stick in the USB jack, I do not get gapless playback through my stereo.  If I plug my iPod (which has the same exact mp3 files on it) into it using a standard dock connector/USB plug cable, I get gapless playback.
 
I always took this to mean that they somehow are feeding the analog line-out through the USB connector on unused pins.  If that's true, then at least for my car it will be broken.
 
If I'm way off, somebody let me know .

 

[scootermafia]

Quite interesting all this.  
 
It looks like to summarize - there is no way whatsoever to pull an analog line out from the iPhone 5.  The dock plug is fully digital, and using an adapter with it just seems to give access to the USB control, which supplies audio digital data and power, or sync data if you plug it into a computer.  So it works with stuff like the CLAS that does full non analog control via USB, or cars that use legit USB DAC access to the iPhone (not Hyundai that has USB control plus a LOD style analog plugin).  Now, we may see (from the best-financed companies, since this won't be trivial) a little clip on for the bottom of the iPhone5 that has a DAC inside and converts the digital data from Lightning to analog mini out.  The simple fact is that ALO is going to sell a lot of CLAS to iPhone5 owners because the iPhone5 is basically a paperweight for audio systems without those.  There's not going to be a cheapo line out solution for a while, unless someone can make that aformentioned clip on for cheap.  Honestly I bet a small one could be developed that has a mini USB port and an audio port on it...no different from a Sendstation dock...except with some electronics inside and likely a $100-200 price tag.  But if you can afford an iPhone5 already, then who cares?