[bmichels]

  ....The main roadblock right now seems to be getting the 24/96 files to the iDevice in the first place, and next to find an audio app that can "see" these files and play them at their native sampling rate. 

 
Correct !  this is our goal !  and from what you say it seems that iOS7 do not yet allow for this  (( ??? 
 
AHHHH !! damned !!  this morning I thought that, in order to ba able to use my M8 with my iPhone AND my RWAK100,  I could replace my order for a Centrance Hifi M8 (the iDevice + USB version) by a HiFi M8 LX (the optical + USB version), but may be this was wrong ???

 

[blueangel2323]

  Run iTunes on a computer on your local WiFi and use the Sharing portion of the Music app to connect to music library on the computer. 
 
By the way, I have played 24/96 files locally (but not using Apple's stock Music app) on an iPad mini through the Lightning-to-USB connector and then to the microStreamer and gotten 96kHz playback to work.  I've also gotten the Fiio E17 to play back these files at 96kHz, but I needed a USB hub to do it.  The method I used employed the Seagate Wireless Plus, a $200 wireless hard drive which allows you to download files to its own Seagate Media app on the iPad.  The main roadblock right now seems to be getting the 24/96 files to the iDevice in the first place, and next to find an audio app that can "see" these files and play them at their native sampling rate. 

 
Could you please try stock Music app > Lightning to USB > DAC and let us know if it works? Standard 16/44.1 files I mean. I know the stock player won't play higher sample rates.
 
And by the way, what app are you using to play 24/96?

 

[jazzman7]

   
Correct !  this is our goal !  and from what you say it seems that iOS7 do not yet allow for this  (( ??? 
 
AHHHH !! damned !!  this morning I thought that, in order to ba able to use my M8 with my iPhone AND my RWAK100,  I could replace my order for a Centrance Hifi M8 (the iDevice + USB version) by a HiFi M8 LX (the optical + USB version), but may be this was wrong ???

 
The problem in my opinion is the software playback at this point.
 
The hardware (at least iPhone 4s and newer) can handle 96kHz playback.  The CCK or Lightning-to-USB adapters allow connection to an external DAC that supports 96kHz.  Streaming of 96kHz files works via iTunes, but there's no local playback option that is native to the device. 
 
The final piece of the puzzle is an iPhone app that allows side-loading of 24/96 content along with bit-perfect playback.  I'm not sure if that exists.  I know the Seagate Media app can play 96kHz files, but you can't use the Seagate Media app with your "regular" music library or even without their hard drive (and yes, I've checked -- it appears to have its own SQL database). 
 
Also, as Fraggler says, Apple could make the CCK/USB dongles "not work" in a future iOS update.  I don't think that it will happen, but it could.

 

[jazzman7]

   
Could you please try stock Music app > Lightning to USB > DAC and let us know if it works? Standard 16/44.1 files I mean. I know the stock player won't play higher sample rates.
 
And by the way, what app are you using to play 24/96?

I know stock Music app > CCK > DAC works on the iPhone 4 under iOS 7 and the microStreamer.  Both 16/44.1 and 16/48 files work (the latter might be 24/48 -- I don't recall the bit depth exactly on some of my music).   I'm assuming the microSteamer is doing its job to independently identify the sampling rate.
 
If all you want to do is play back audio files already on your iPhone through an outboard DAC/amp, you can do that now with the CCK or Lightning to USB adapter.  That's the really great news.
 
On hi-rez files, 24/96 works via iTunes sharing on the stock Music player but not locally (because there's no way to get the file stored into the regular Music library on the iDevice).  I have a Seagate Wireless Plus hard drive, and with the Seagate Media app, I can transfer 24/96 WAV files to the iDevice and play them.  All of this is for the iPad 2 (and assumed later) and iPad mini (and assumed later).  I think the iPhone 4s (and later) should work too now like the iPads do under iOS 7.  The iPhone 4 stutters with 24/96 due to its single-core A4 processor.
 
EDIT:  Those looking for info on what to do to assemble an iDevice-centric DAC/amp rig should check out this thread by Thraex.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/625493/ipad-with-24-bit-files-high-storage-capacity-portability-bit-perfect-configurations-that-work

 

[bmichels]

   
 
On hi-rez files, 24/96 works via iTunes sharing on the stock Music player but not locally (because there's no way to get the file stored into the regular Music library on the iDevice). 

 
can't we just load on the iPhone an application that will replace iTune (as music library AND player) and Store + play 24/96 files ?  
 
I know that there are tons of players that works on iPhone, some of them must I hope support 24/96 and also act as music file library ?? (even if they are "illegal", we then need to jailbreak the phone to load the app. that's all)
 
any help from an Iphone expert ? 

 

[JoeFonebone]

Jazzman7 - thanks for the info on the CCK (from a few days ago)
 
I am now able to use my iPhone 5 (iOS7) with the CCK. My set up is for my car, and being able to just plug the CCK into the phone is very handy. No more iPad. FWIW, my set up, which is working great with only a very occasional "skip," is as follows:
 
Seagate wireless plus HDD (600 GB of 16/44 and 24/96 FLAC) > iPhone (8Player or AcePlayer apps) > CCK and USB cable > powered hub (not sure if I still need it) > Musical Fidelity USB/SPDIF (24/96 version, using optical out) > Audison SFC (down converts 24/96 to 24/48 for Bit One) > Audison Bit One processor > Audison amps and speakers.

 

[blueangel2323]

  Jazzman7 - thanks for the info on the CCK (from a few days ago)
 
I am now able to use my iPhone 5 (iOS7) with the CCK. My set up is for my car, and being able to just plug the CCK into the phone is very handy. No more iPad. FWIW, my set up, which is working great with only a very occasional "skip," is as follows:
 
Seagate wireless plus HDD (600 GB of 16/44 and 24/96 FLAC) > iPhone (8Player or AcePlayer apps) > CCK and USB cable > powered hub (not sure if I still need it) > Musical Fidelity USB/SPDIF (24/96 version, using optical out) > Audison SFC (down converts 24/96 to 24/48 for Bit One) > Audison Bit One processor > Audison amps and speakers.

 
Great news! Do you mean the Lightning to USB camera adaptor? AFAIK the original CCK only comes in a 30-pin version.

 

[JoeFonebone]

I'm using the apple lightning to USB Camera Adapter (still using the old CCK shorthand) and then an Audioquest USB cable from the CCK to the USB/SPDIF
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD821ZM/A/lightning-to-usb-camera-adapter?fnode=45
http://www.amazon.com/Cinnamon-USB-Digital-Audio-Cable/dp/B0041E3RLA/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1379711836&sr=1-8&keywords=audioquest+usb+cable

 

[ExpatinJapan]

This is interesting if they dont discontinue it in a future update. My only worry.


I can get 24/96 Flac on my 4th gen ipod touch using Flacplayer app.

 

[JoeFonebone]

This is interesting if they dont discontinue it in a future update. My only worry.


I can get 24/96 Flac on my 4th gen ipod touch using Flacplayer app.

Are the FLAC files stored on the iPod, or are you streaming them via wifi?

 

[ExpatinJapan]

On my ipod.

Search my profiles photos for what happened to them in the past-they were stored on the ipod touch as24/96 but down sampled when played.
Maybe with the CCK they would be played at 24/96 -if someone has some equipment then we can test.

 

[jazzman7]

I had a chance to check the following.
 
A brand-new iPhone 5c running iOS 7 -> Lightning-to-USB camera adapter -> USB A to mini USB cable ->  microStreamer -> headphone jack.   When playing local audio, the 44.1k LED lights up, and there is no stuttering.  However, when playing 24bit/96kHz audio using iTunes sharing, there IS stuttering just like I heard on the iPhone 4 earlier.  Bummer!
 
Next, I swapped the iPhone 5c/iOS 7 with an iPad mini running iOS 6.1.3.  Everything else is the same.  Local audio plays fine at 44.1kHz, and 24bit/96kHz audio using iTunes sharing plays fine at 96kHz -- no stuttering.
 
Conclusion:  iOS 7 enables the CCK/Lightning-to-USB connector for iPhones, and 44.1kHz/48kHz audio to an outboard DAC can work, but it breaks 96kHz playback on both iPhones and iPads.   If you listen to hi-rez audio using an outboard DAC on your iPad , do not update your iPad to iOS 7 yet. 

 

[GrahamL]

Conclusion:  iOS 7 enables the CCK/Lightning-to-USB connector for iPhones, and 44.1kHz/48kHz audio to an outboard DAC can work, but it breaks 96kHz playback on both iPhones and iPads.   If you listen to hi-rez audio using an outboard DAC on your iPad , do not update your iPad to iOS 7 yet. 

Regarding iPhone, this broad assertion is incorrect. Everything up to 24/96 playback, including higher sample rates that are downsampled on the fly, work perfectly on my iPhone 4s and Dragonfly, using the stock music app + iTunes Home Sharing. If you're getting stuttering, it's possible you've got too much going on with your apps in the background - try closing them.

Is your "don't update iPad to iOS7" recommendation based on actual testing with an iPad or the problems with your iOS7 iPhone?

Graham

 

[jazzman7]

Your point is well taken. I am testing a specific setup, and another piece in the chain might fix things.

Right now, it seems that iOS 7 on the iPhone does not allow native 96k playback on the microStreamer DAC. Lower sampling rates are fine.

For the iPad, I did not update to iOS 7 yet. My thinking is that the iPhone 5c is faster than the iPad mini, so it isn't a processor speed issue. But as you say, it might still be a processor load issue, or something else entirely (e.g. memory bus). The iPhone and iPad are different.

I don't want to update my iPad until I know 96k works on it in the new OS. Unfortunately, I don't think I can easily test this in the store.

Regarding the Dragonfly, does it downsample 96k playback to lower sampling rates in your iPhone testing?

 

[GrahamL]

Your point is well taken. I am testing a specific setup, and another piece in the chain might fix things.

Right now, it seems that iOS 7 on the iPhone does not allow native 96k playback on the microStreamer DAC. Lower sampling rates are fine.

For the iPad, I did not update to iOS 7 yet. My thinking is that the iPhone 5c is faster than the iPad mini, so it isn't a processor speed issue. But as you say, it might still be a processor load issue, or something else entirely (e.g. memory bus). The iPhone and iPad are different.

I don't want to update my iPad until I know 96k works on it in the new OS. Unfortunately, I don't think I can easily test this in the store.

Regarding the Dragonfly, does it downsample 96k playback to lower sampling rates in your iPhone testing?

 
I'm glad my point was well taken - I sometimes worry about the fine line between "to the point" and agressive

 
I would perhaps try closing all the background apps on the 5c (which you can do 3 at a time with iOS 7's new app switcher!) and see if that makes a difference. Multitasking works differently on iOS 7 compared to 6 - you can enable/disable backgroud refresh on a per-app basis, for example. I guess the app used to play the music will make a difference too. I'm using iTunes Home Sharing with the stock music app but that's not to say other apps capable of 24/96 will work properly - which app are you using?
 
As for the Dragonfly, everything up to and including 24/96 is passed to the Dragonfly at the source's native sampling rate, as confirmed by the colour of the logo on the DAC. It switches flawlessly between 44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96 depending on the source. The Dragonfly is only capable of receiving up to 24bit/96kHz; 176.4 and 192 are downsampled to 96 before they are passed to the Dragonfly. I believe that iTunes on the host machine is doing this downsampling on the fly, based on previous tests I've carried out that demonstrate that, when using Home Sharing, iTunes will tailor the bitrate and sampling rate of what is passed to the client device based on that device's capabilities (which, when the Dragonfly is connected will be up to and including 24/96).
 
I have an iPad 3 that I've not yet updated to iOS 7 (just haven't had the time yet, plus my wife likes to play Minesweeper on it

) but I intend to. I will post about how that goes.
 
 
Thanks,
 
Graham