[ericpalonen]

Well bummer, guess I'm out with these if ears touch the inside. I absolutely hate that about my Sony XM4. I did buy bigger earpads from Dekoni, which 100% fix the comfort with my ears not touching the inside at all, but it really negatively affects ANC. The only good one appears to be Bose with deap earcups, but then I'm stuck to SBC/AAC with no AptX or LDAC (and I'm on Android - if I was on iPhone it wouldn't matter).

So what else could I buy that has great ANC and great codec support and is super comfortable for long flights? (I'm a regular flyer and I have big ears).

We hope you can try M4W in person, as that is the best way to know for certain. We don't want you to be unhappy either. I'm going to bust out the calipers soon (and compare to M3W as well) so we can get specifics on cup depth.

 

[starfly]

I've spent a few days with the M4. Here's my take on them so far.

Summary: Wonderful sound and plush feel, but fatiguing when on the move with no ability to disable ANC/Transparency modes without turning it off and resorting to the cable (ie. no wireless passive mode).

Comfort / Look & Feel (Good, but not great)

• You don't forget these are on your head and they tend to slip off when leaning forward
• My ears touch the insides which I really don't like - the drivers don't sit back far enough
• The QC45 are absolutely the benchmark in this regard
• The M4s look and feel more premium in person than in photos
• The earcups are massive, and they look massive on your head
• The headband keeps close to your head and don't jut out which is good!
• The earpads are probably the most plush I've ever felt - lovely
• The headband cushioning also has a delightful feel to it
• Carry case is great even if a little larger than I would have liked. A little fatter and wider than the Bose NC 700. Pleasing colour and material.

Sound (Glorious)

• I'm least qualified to comment on this.
• Yes, the bass is significant, but dropping the bass by a two Db in the app EQ helps - but not too far, -3 makes some songs lack texture.
• To my ears, the performance is better than anything I've heard before wireless - I enjoy them at least as much as the M3, which was my previous benchmark.
• They are a very enjoyable listen

ANC (Fine)

• Nowhere near as good as the QC45
• Good enough

Travel (Not great)

• Commuting is where things started becoming problematic for me.
• It blocks out wind, at the expense of shifting the ANC/Transparency modes around constantly which is super distracting - the noise floor is constantly shifting
• Why can't I double tap to disable both ANC/Transparency completely? This would solve the wind noise and is my preference when walking anyway.
• Using the app to drag the slider to the middle is futile on an iPhone, partly because the app is so sluggish that it's impossible to drag it where you want while moving.
• These really feel massive when on the move and become fatiguing after a while, to the point where I had to take them off to give my head a break.

Smart Application (OK)

• Good features.
• Performance is woeful on iPhone.
• There's some delay while the app connects to the headphones, but it's generally pretty reliable in limited testing.
• What a refreshing feature to display the current codec in use when playing content - I wish all manufacturers did this.

Other notable things - Good

• The cups swivel all the way around both ways - an underrated feature. Though the cups are so large that they cut into my neck anyway when I try to lay them on my shoulders.
• Calls seem fine in limited zoom/teams testing - sidetone is great and also very underrated
• These turn on and connect super quick - love this
• They turn on as soon as you remove them from the case, which is amazing!
• Touch controls are responsive and they pause and play music with very little delay - probably the quickest I've experienced

Other notable things - Bad

• Wear sensors are no good - stop when I take off my head, play again when I rest around my neck!
• Have to reduce back to their "smallest" setting to fit back in the case
• Touch controls - I just prefer buttons…
• Connectivity is confusing and it doesn't always connect to the same device/devices it connected to last - I wish there was a way to set an "always connect to device" (this was absolutely my favourite feature of the PX7)

Have you by chance ever owned (or still own) the Sony XM4 - how does the ear-cup depth compare to those?

 

[hldn]

M4W is meant to be used on, as most users (and many here) will want Bluetooth wireless use as the main event. In that case, it makes sense to have the headphones sound as good as they can while active as passive-mode listening is a fringe case. M4W sounds best while on for certain.

I'll get some more clarification on this and understand the scenario, thank you for the detailed description. For everyone reading this thread, here's my "best option until..." take. First a quick primer:

• M4W, through the app, can utilize ANC in 2 ways: Adaptive (set and forget) and "blanket" ANC (strong no matter the environment).
  • Both versions of ANC work in tandem with the Transparency feature. You can blend the amount of transparency you want via the Smart Control app or the gesture control pad on the hardware
    • To adjust transparency amount via the hardware, pinch "open" (like zooming IN on a smartphone) in either ANC mode
      • From MOST ANC/LEAST TRANSPARENCY setting, you can pinch open 5x to reach LEAST ANC/MOST TRANSPARENCY
    • To adjust transparency amount via the app, use the slider (Adaptive mode only)
    • To achieve "least amount of ANC without too much transparency" (sorry I don't have a shorter name), turn ON adaptive, then slide your ANC setting to the middle. Based on what your own sensitivity you may want to adjust slightly. I've attached a screenshot
      • For non-Adaptive ANC mode, there's a middle setting but not available via a slider (hardware pinch only)
  • If you're using hardware gestures only, an easy way to get your bearings is to pinch open 5x, then start pinching closed until you get the balance you like (3x is great for office use, IMHO)

Again, while this is not the same as simply disabling ANC while retaining active Bluetooth and ZERO transparent hearing mode, but is close. More to come and I'll absolutely send this along to the team for a closer look. Quick reminder to update your firmware, as a new release is out 2.6.13

Thx again for the feedback everyone!

The screenshot

Well that was detailed and clarifies the doubts about ANC. Big thanks!

Any details on what was updated in the newest firmware? And also, can you ask the team about the high end tuning setting?

 

[stickertape]

Have you by chance ever owned (or still own) the Sony XM4 - how does the ear-cup depth compare to those?

Never owned the Sony sorry

 

[dragion]

Purchased the "white" version and expecting delivery later today.
Currently own Sony XM4 and decided to treat myself to another set of ANC Headphones for my B' Day and went with the Momentum 4's instead of the XM5.
This would be my 2nd Sennheiser product along with my AMBEO Soundbar.

My question and concern is the BT audio codec pairing with my Sony Xperia 1 II with Sennheiser Momentum 4...?
I use LDAC with my Sony headphones and uncertain what codec will be available with the M4's?
I don't know if APTX Adaptive is a choice with the Sony Xperia 1 II...most likely AAC will be the primary codec available which is a bit of a let down for me.

Did I make a mistake on going with the M4's instead of the XM5's?

 

[Zonium]

Purchased the "white" version and expecting delivery later today.
Currently own Sony XM4 and decided to treat myself to another set of ANC Headphones for my B' Day and went with the Momentum 4's instead of the XM5.
This would be my 2nd Sennheiser product along with my AMBEO Soundbar.

My question and concern is the BT audio codec pairing with my Sony Xperia 1 II with Sennheiser Momentum 4...?
I use LDAC with my Sony headphones and uncertain what codec will be available with the M4's?
I don't know if APTX Adaptive is a choice with the Sony Xperia 1 II...most likely AAC will be the primary codec available which is a bit of a let down for me.

Did I make a mistake on going with the M4's instead of the XM5's?

Xperia 1 II support APTX Adaptive so Momentum 4 will use that.

 

[ubs28]

We hope you can try M4W in person, as that is the best way to know for certain. We don't want you to be unhappy either. I'm going to bust out the calipers soon (and compare to M3W as well) so we can get specifics on cup depth.

It's not just about the depth, it is in combination with the super soft pads which causes the problem.

People with small heads will less likely have this problem as the pressure will be lower and thus causes the pads to compress less.

But it is a design flaw. There are only a few headphones where I have this problems and it's mostly from ANC headphones by Sony. (And now Sennheiser just joined the club).

 

[dragion]

Xperia 1 II support APTX Adaptive so Momentum 4 will use that.

I wasn't aware of that... I guess I didn't researched enough to find that the Sony Xperia 1 II has APTX Adaptive feature built-in.
Thank you.

 

[unifutomaki]

M4W is meant to be used on, as most users (and many here) will want Bluetooth wireless use as the main event. In that case, it makes sense to have the headphones sound as good as they can while active as passive-mode listening is a fringe case. M4W sounds best while on for certain.

I'll get some more clarification on this and understand the scenario, thank you for the detailed description. For everyone reading this thread, here's my "best option until..." take. First a quick primer:

• M4W, through the app, can utilize ANC in 2 ways: Adaptive (set and forget) and "blanket" ANC (strong no matter the environment).
  • Both versions of ANC work in tandem with the Transparency feature. You can blend the amount of transparency you want via the Smart Control app or the gesture control pad on the hardware
    • To adjust transparency amount via the hardware, pinch "open" (like zooming IN on a smartphone) in either ANC mode
      • From MOST ANC/LEAST TRANSPARENCY setting, you can pinch open 5x to reach LEAST ANC/MOST TRANSPARENCY
    • To adjust transparency amount via the app, use the slider (Adaptive mode only)
    • To achieve "least amount of ANC without too much transparency" (sorry I don't have a shorter name), turn ON adaptive, then slide your ANC setting to the middle. Based on what your own sensitivity you may want to adjust slightly. I've attached a screenshot
      • For non-Adaptive ANC mode, there's a middle setting but not available via a slider (hardware pinch only)
  • If you're using hardware gestures only, an easy way to get your bearings is to pinch open 5x, then start pinching closed until you get the balance you like (3x is great for office use, IMHO)

Again, while this is not the same as simply disabling ANC while retaining active Bluetooth and ZERO transparent hearing mode, but is close. More to come and I'll absolutely send this along to the team for a closer look. Quick reminder to update your firmware, as a new release is out 2.6.13

Thx again for the feedback everyone!

The screenshot

Basically it would be ideal if the app worked more like this (credit to Technics):

Customisable levels of ANC and transparency with an “All Off” switch. Incidentally, “Off” is where I like to have it if I’m listening to my TWS at home, since ANC can create a vacuum effect when ambient noise is low and I don’t need said ambient noise to be amplified in my ears

 

[stickertape]

Basically it would be ideal if the app worked more like this (credit to Technics):




Customisable levels of ANC and transparency with an “All Off” switch. Incidentally, “Off” is where I like to have it if I’m listening to my TWS at home, since ANC can create a vacuum effect when ambient noise is low and I don’t need said ambient noise to be amplified in my ears

Yes. Exactly. And the double tap gesture should cycle between the three modes - not two.

 

[starfly]

It's not just about the depth, it is in combination with the super soft pads which causes the problem.

People with small heads will less likely have this problem as the pressure will be lower and thus causes the pads to compress less.

But it is a design flaw. There are only a few headphones where I have this problems and it's mostly from ANC headphones by Sony. (And now Sennheiser just joined the club).

OK, so the M4 pads compress just as much as on the Sony XM4? As that's indeed the main issue. The Sony pads flatten to being almost non existent when I wear them, with the drivers sitting on my ear.

 

[KopaneDePooj]

Purchased the "white" version and expecting delivery later today.
Currently own Sony XM4 and decided to treat myself to another set of ANC Headphones for my B' Day and went with the Momentum 4's instead of the XM5.
This would be my 2nd Sennheiser product along with my AMBEO Soundbar.

My question and concern is the BT audio codec pairing with my Sony Xperia 1 II with Sennheiser Momentum 4...?
I use LDAC with my Sony headphones and uncertain what codec will be available with the M4's?
I don't know if APTX Adaptive is a choice with the Sony Xperia 1 II...most likely AAC will be the primary codec available which is a bit of a let down for me.

Did I make a mistake on going with the M4's instead of the XM5's?

For a codec? oh god, no! You made no mistake. BT codecs are overrated, people fret too much about codecs, and very much so in this thread. "What? No LDAC?" When 99,99% of AUDIBLE improvement over say plain aptX or AAC is expectancy bias / placebo, especially because when we're considering BT ANC headphones we're not talking about the purest sound nor the best resolution exactly because of the ANC/DSP involved, drivers quality, closed design, etc - they're not ment and not used for critical listening, and there goes the other 0.01% "improvement". I owned XM3 and XM4, and switched numerous times between LDAC and AAC, heard no difference. I'm sure others "hear" a difference, but I'm skeptical about what that means, and where it comes from... Plus LDAC always falls back to some "Best effort" setting in android, you're not using its full spec.

So I'd say LDAC and other exotic or newer codecs are "better" only in theory, and you should consider differences in sound signature, comfort and ANC if that's important to you, and not BT codecs, when deciding between M4 and XM5 or any other BT headphones.

 

[hldn]

Ok calling it now. From 6 times commuting, I think smart pause has worked once while in-travel. Must have taken them out like 10 times and only one worked. It never works after X minutes wearing them.

 

[garethr]

Ok calling it now. From 6 times commuting, I think smart pause has worked once while in-travel. Must have taken them out like 10 times and only one worked. It never works after X minutes wearing them.

Not had any issues with the smart pause on my set. In fact I’d say other than the APM it’s the most reliable head detection I’ve seen

 

[bizkid]

I just got mine and i'm really happy i went with the white version. The case looks good, is very sturdy and organized inside, love that. Had a listen for 30 minutes before i decided to do the firmware update... It announced to take around 80 minutes for the update, crazy. Might be my old Samsung S7 as the Software itself is so laggy being borderline unusable on this phone. But it's and old phone and i'm not complaining. My impression from the first listen is that it seems to be not that much of an upgrade soundwise coming from the M3W. Can't compare them side by side anymore too so i might be wrong. More impressions later...