Introducing HIFIMAN Susvara Unveiled: Elevating Audio Excellence!

[bagwell359]

There is 0 need to do that. I will just tell people its hard to drive, even with standard sensitivity. As there are no physic laws that explain what "Hard to drive" means, i can just make it up and nobody is able to verify that

Comparison is one way. ASR lists efficiency vs other phones in their reviews and the HE-6 and Susvara are right at or very near the top of such lists.

While you can certainly get a signal out of a Susvara with an amp of .5 watts @ 50 ohms, you will not get bass dynamics to match something like a Ragnarok 2. Yes, in a blind test I'm confident the difference can be heard.

 

[JLoud]

I Googled it- $450 in 1985 is equivalent to $1311 today. So those HD650s are a bargain now.

 

[Vamp898]

Comparison is one way. ASR lists efficiency vs other phones in their reviews and the HE-6 and Susvara are right at or very near the top of such lists.

While you can certainly get a signal out of a Susvara with an amp of .5 watts @ 50 ohms, you will not get bass dynamics to match something like a Ragnarok 2. Yes, in a blind test I'm confident the difference can be heard.

Than the amp is broken. Replace the amp.

I do not know one single amp that is not linear with an 50Ω load.

Even my cheap 50$ DAC is perfectly linear up until 600Ω and further

But the Susvara has almost 0 bass to begin with, so if you don't get dynamic bass out of the Susvara, you get the sound of the Susvara

 

[bagwell359]

I know from one reseller, that they have to pay 2750$ per Susvara to buy it from Hifiman

//EDIT: I was told that price is wrong. Currently its 1750$

Not sure about that. My time in retail high end - the cost to dealers of the most exclusive equipment was 60%, most 50%, contracted brands 40% or a tad lower of retail.

Susvara have been and are available "open box" (but in reality unused) for a low of $3700 ranging recently around $4200. So if you are right, they are making nearly $0, which most retailers are not likely to do.

With the new model, HFM will not lower the list price of the OG until dealer stocks are basically exhausted. Then they will, but you have to wonder if they will maintain the QC at the same level if they making substaintially less at a list of say $3900 or more so at $3499.

 

[bagwell359]

I Googled it- $450 in 1985 is equivalent to $1311 today. So those HD650s are a bargain now.

The 600's even more so lately going for low 300's.

 

[Vamp898]

Not sure about that. My time in retail high end - the cost to dealers of the most exclusive equipment was 60%, most 50%, contracted brands 40% or a tad lower of retail.

Susvara have been and are available "open box" (but in reality unused) for a low of $3700 ranging recently around $4200. So if you are right, they are making nearly $0, which most retailers are not likely to do.

With the new model, HFM will not lower the list price of the OG until dealer stocks are basically exhausted. Then they will, but you have to wonder if they will maintain the QC at the same level if they making substaintially less at a list of say $3900 or more so at $3499.

You can get a brand new at e-earphone for 4000€. With Tax-Free Shopping its even 3600€

If you buy it directly in China, its very unlikely you pay more than 4000 for it.

 

[bagwell359]

Than the amp is broken. Replace the amp.

Heh

I do not know one single amp that is not linear with an 50Ω load.

Ever hear an OTL amp? If the Susvara is 83 db @ 1w @ 1k, you are not getting anything like dynamics out of the .5 wpc amp.

Even my cheap 50$ DAC is perfectly linear up until 600Ω and further

Nice for you

But the Susvara has almost 0 bass to begin with, so if you don't get dynamic bass out of the Susvara, you get the sound of the Susvara

I'd like to help you out, which way did you come in? Sound Science perhaps.

Guess the amp you heard on the Susvara didn't have enough juice for the Susvara. Unless your reference is the sloppy +8 db bass of a closed cup like the Fostex 900 v2, the Susvara does very nicely for an open back estat.

 

[bagwell359]

You can get a brand new at e-earphone for 4000€. With Tax-Free Shopping its even 3600€

If you buy it directly in China, its very unlikely you pay more than 4000 for it.

My experience is with USA prices

 

[Vamp898]

Heh

Ever hear an OTL amp? If the Susvara is 83 db @ 1w @ 1k, you are not getting anything like dynamics out of the .5 wpc amp.

Nice for you

I'd like to help you out, which way did you come in? Sound Science perhaps.

Guess the amp you heard on the Susvara didn't have enough juice for the Susvara. Unless your reference is the sloppy +8 db bass of a closed cup like the Fostex 900 v2, the Susvara does very nicely for an open back estat.

83db/mw with 58Ω means you have 110db with an 0.5W amp.

That can damage your hearing in less than 15 minutes.

The Susvara is not an estat btw.

 

[bagwell359]

83db/mw with 58Ω means you have 110db with an 0.5W amp.

That can damage your hearing in less than 15 minutes.

The Susvara is not an estat btw.

I was thinking about writing the Susvara has better bass than any estat and most planars, my bad.

Sorry, while I sit in the middle between the two poles in audio land, my experience dating back to 1978 with planar speakers and headphones more recently says all things being equal in quality (like the Classe CA-100, 200, 400 amps with the same circuit design) that the more available power the better for them, not true for ribbons, estats, horns, piezo or dynamics in my experience. And I'm talking well short of clipping volume.

A small desktop amp (integrated amp) for headphones with .5 wpc @ 58 ohms is not going to do the job. I'm sure your adherence to an "ism" outweighs everything, so I will not be continuing this topic. By all means have the last word.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

83db/mw with 58Ω means you have 110db with an 0.5W amp.

That can damage your hearing in less than 15 minutes.

The Susvara is not an estat btw.

From my experience, my 2.1 W FiiO K9 Pro ESS can get the DCA Expanse over XLR plenty loud enough on high gain, whereby to get something like Mahler Symphony No. 5 close to concert levels (at least 94 dBA explosive tutti), I do need to max out the volume knob. At that point, I would be pretty sure my DAC/amp would not drive the Susvara (haven't heard it, but I know that I didn't hear the hype with the HE1000se versus the Arya Stealth) to the levels I desire. I believe the headphone power calculators only account for one tone, not a massive plurality with a downward spectral envelope. As for comparing one 6 W amp to another or to a 12 W amp, that's where I would be more skeptical and demand precise volume-matching with a multimeter.

First big tutti from Pierre Boulez' Mahler 5.

 

[JLoud]

Than the amp is broken. Replace the amp.

I do not know one single amp that is not linear with an 50Ω load.

Even my cheap 50$ DAC is perfectly linear up until 600Ω and further

But the Susvara has almost 0 bass to begin with, so if you don't get dynamic bass out of the Susvara, you get the sound of the Susvara

All these power requirements are usually referring to @1k. 20hz takes much more power. And control of the driver as well. But this always sets people off. So I’m not going down the rabbit hole. I have compared amp requirements for myself on real amps with real headphones and not data sheets. To each his own.
The Susvara has excellent bass and great extension when driven well.

 

[Vamp898]

From my experience, my 2.1 W FiiO K9 Pro ESS can get the DCA Expanse over XLR plenty loud enough on high gain, whereby to get something like Mahler Symphony No. 5 close to concert levels (at least 94 dBA explosive tutti), I do need to max out the volume knob. At that point, I would be pretty sure my DAC/amp would not drive the Susvara (haven't heard it, but I know that I didn't hear the hype with the HE1000se versus the Arya Stealth) to the levels I desire. I believe the headphone power calculators only account for one tone, not a massive plurality with a downward spectral envelope. As for comparing one 6 W amp to another or to a 12 W amp, that's where I would be more skeptical and demand precise volume-matching with a multimeter.


First big tutti from Pierre Boulez' Mahler 5.

That is an statement i can accept. If you are listening to a song with very high dynamic and or has lower volume overall for whatever reason, than, of course, 0.5W might not be enough, that is true.

I am pretty sure the K9 Pro ESS is powerful enough but you are absolutely right. With an very dynamic song, an 0.5W amp is not enough.

In my personal experience, most people who own an Susvara listen to classic music anyway and that is recorded at lower volumes with high dynamics. So yes, an 0.5W amp is not enough for that.

Not because they all like classical music, but you need something to listen to when you have an Headphone so why not just play classic. So you listen to classic so you have something to listen to the Headphone which is sad but that is just my personal opinion.

But i can accept and even agree to your statement that, depending on the song, you need higher voltage. But the K9 Pro ESS is surprisingly powerful, that should be enough for the Susvara

 

[Barnstormer13]

Is it just me, or has Hifiman jumped the shark with $8k headphones? $8k. For headphones. When does it stop being about the music and instead become about bragging rights?

I think sometimes people expect super expensive headphones to bring magic that doesn’t exist with less expensive phones, but that’s not my experience. I was listening to a colleague’s new $100 headphones (Grado SR60) last night and while it wasn’t as good as my $1000-$2000 headphones, it was still a totally enjoyable listen. Admittedly, I was listening to it with $4k in upstream gear, but still.

Re amp power output with Susvaras: If you can afford the headphones, you can afford an amp that can drive anything. Why cheap out on the amp if you’re going to spend that kind of money on the headphone, especially when the majority of owners say it’s hard to drive?

 

[MusicalDoc8]

Is it just me, or has Hifiman jumped the shark with $8k headphones? $8k. For headphones. When does it stop being about the music and instead become about bragging rights?

I was listening to a colleague’s new $100 headphones (Grado SR60) last night and while it wasn’t as good as my $1000-$2000 headphones, it was still a totally enjoyable listen. Admittedly, I was listening to it with $4k in upstream gear, but still.

Re amp power output with Susvaras: If you can afford the headphones, you can afford an amp that can drive anything. Why cheap out on the amp if you’re going to spend that kind of money on the headphone, especially when the majority of owners say it’s hard to drive?

Pretty much shark jumping, and with their "open box" deals is there any incentive in buying second hand vs from them directly?