Introducing HIFIMAN Susvara Unveiled: Elevating Audio Excellence!
Jun 14, 2024 at 4:04 PM Post #151 of 173
Price of goods tend to follow the "how much can i charge before i end up with no customers" scale. Possibly the Chinese market is so strong they feel confident they can just go all in with 8k sale. We will the reality of it if/when they go for 3k on second hand.
 
Jun 14, 2024 at 6:43 PM Post #152 of 173
The OG Susvara still runs $3500 used. Unless is is an older version (2.5mm) and then still over $3k.
 
Jun 15, 2024 at 3:32 AM Post #153 of 173
I once borrowed a Susvara from a dealer to try it vs my Utopia 22.

I also borrowed a Ferrum OOR which puts out a huge 8W at 60 Ohms.

Listened to the Susvara from my custom Dynalo Mk2 (approx 5W @ 60 Ohms) then switched to the OOR.

There was no difference to my ears. The Susvara sounded excellent from both amps but the bass was slightly less impactful and enjoyable compared to my Utopia and something like the LCD4.

I think this difficult to drive thing has become a huge meme. Resolve and Goldensound claim that the much less powerful (2W at 60 Ohms) Zahl HM1 is the best amp they have heard with the Susvara and they've heard nearly everything.

If someone claims you need a speaker amp or a 2 Benchmark AHB2s to get the best out of them I'm going to need a proper reason why. I've still not come across anybody able to explain this.
Keith Howard wrote a very interesting article entitled 'What makes a great headphone amp?', which appeared in HifiCritic (Jan 2022). Among other things it discusses power requirements. Assuming peak SPL of 120dB (symphonic peaks run from 120-137 according to research he cites), he points out that the Susvara (the lowest sensitivity headphone he's measured - 1kHz sensitivity of 91.5dB for 1V) would require 26.6V to drive it to peak. He suggests that even a loudspeaker amp rated at less than 44W per channel continuous into 8 ohms wouldn't be sufficient. All of that said, I found my Moon 430HA drove the Susvara very well indeed - I could not hear improvements when listening to the Susvara with other more powerful amps.
 
Jun 15, 2024 at 1:25 PM Post #154 of 173
The OG Susvara still runs $3500 used. Unless is is an older version (2.5mm) and then still over $3k.

You can find it for a little less ($3000-$3300) for the 3.5 version. I let mine go for ~$3k.
 
Jun 15, 2024 at 1:36 PM Post #155 of 173
Keith Howard wrote a very interesting article entitled 'What makes a great headphone amp?', which appeared in HifiCritic (Jan 2022). Among other things it discusses power requirements. Assuming peak SPL of 120dB (symphonic peaks run from 120-137 according to research he cites), he points out that the Susvara (the lowest sensitivity headphone he's measured - 1kHz sensitivity of 91.5dB for 1V) would require 26.6V to drive it to peak. He suggests that even a loudspeaker amp rated at less than 44W per channel continuous into 8 ohms wouldn't be sufficient. All of that said, I found my Moon 430HA drove the Susvara very well indeed - I could not hear improvements when listening to the Susvara with other more powerful amps.
I presume that symphonic peak is referring to ear-shattering orchestral cymbal transients while on the stage. As for continuous peaks, I'd pin the loudest orchestral tutties I've encountered at upwards of 100 dBA.
 
Jun 15, 2024 at 6:36 PM Post #156 of 173
I presume that symphonic peak is referring to ear-shattering orchestral cymbal transients while on the stage. As for continuous peaks, I'd pin the loudest orchestral tutties I've encountered at upwards of 100 dBA.
I believe the SPL in all cases is given at a distance of 3m from the instrument or ensemble measured (the full range of orchestral instruments). The research was conducted by Canadian audiologist Marshall Chasin (who apparently has an interest in the protection of musicians' hearing). Howard cites the research: How loud is that musical instrument?, Hearing Review 13(3), 2006. Interestingly, Howard points out that the A-weighted measurement in each case is significantly lower than the true peak level. Excessive and hearing-damaging as such levels would be if maintained, Howard (and Chasin) suggest there's ample evidence that peak levels of this order are routinely encountered in live music. Who knew the piccolo generated SPL of 120dB at 3m?!
 
Jun 15, 2024 at 9:46 PM Post #157 of 173
some are saying to them the Tungsten DS sound as good if not better than the Sus.... it does sound very good.... good enough that it would be hard to justify that there is a cost difference of $4000.... for the cost of a Sus at $6K you can buy the Tungsten DS for $2k and have a budget of $4K for an end game tube amp
I've recently had both and I'd say the Tungsten DS are a better value, but not better headphones. Fantastic headphones, but not at the Sus level imho.
 
Jun 16, 2024 at 8:23 AM Post #158 of 173
I’m pretty sure at some point next year we’ll see a 20% off for any random reason like…easter sale or Valentine’s sale, etc and they are gonna stay at that new price. I think it was the Sundaras ( not sure), they enter the market at a price ( I believe it was $500) and like a year later they went on sale for a “limited” time at every dealer for $350 and the price never move back to the $500.
Even better examples from HFM:

HE-6 SE OG listed $1800. 3 years later $499
HEX v1 listed $1800. 3 years later HEX v2 (better can) $699
Ananda debuted at either $999 or $899, what now? $359
HEK SE $3500 -> $1699

OG Sus is next IMO: $3-3.5k list, when so owners of the old 2.5 will be hard pressed to get $2k for them.
 
Jun 16, 2024 at 4:54 PM Post #159 of 173
OG Sus is next IMO: $3-3.5k list, when so owners of the old 2.5 will be hard pressed to get $2k for them.

if so then the lcd-4 should sell for 500 dollars and the OG utopia around the same price etc
 
Jun 16, 2024 at 5:03 PM Post #160 of 173
OG Sus is next IMO: $3-3.5k list, when so owners of the old 2.5 will be hard pressed to get $2k for them.

if so then the lcd-4 should sell for 500 dollars and the OG utopia around the same price etc
HFM drops prices way more often and deeper than any "audiophile" brand of headphones I can name, and certainly those two brands don't play in those waters.
 
Jun 16, 2024 at 5:06 PM Post #161 of 173
There is no more 2.5 Susvara in the US since I took the last one, according to HiFiman rep as of a month ago. My old one was wonky and they ended up giving me a new Mint condition 2.5. :gs1000smile:
 
Jun 18, 2024 at 11:31 AM Post #162 of 173
i have arya and susvara. Susvara is 4x the price of arya. I cant tell if ssvaras sound 4x better than aryas. None can tell. But susvaras sound a lot better. Its anorher world. Music rended with ultra finesse floats around me at an arm distance, sometimes more. You dont know what you are missing. You say we justify the money we spend, and my opinion is you justify the money you cant spend. At least take a listen to them.
 
Jun 18, 2024 at 11:36 AM Post #163 of 173
I agree with this statement. If we can afford or want something we justify it. If we can’t afford it we want to justify why it isn’t worth the money. If you haven’t heard it you don’t know. The improvements in sound are never linear to price in the top end of the market.
 
Jul 1, 2024 at 10:36 AM Post #164 of 173
In my personal experience, most people who own an Susvara listen to classic music anyway and that is recorded at lower volumes with high dynamics. So yes, an 0.5W amp is not enough for that.

Not because they all like classical music, but you need something to listen to when you have an Headphone so why not just play classic. So you listen to classic so you have something to listen to the Headphone which is sad but that is just my personal opinion.

Ever considered that "people who listen to classical music" are overrepresented under Susvara owners not because they start listening to classical music once they have a Susvara ("because it's so well recorded"), but that they buy a Susvara because they love classical music? Yes, most well-recorded music has huge dynamic swings (not only classical music by the way).

If you only listen to modern crap from the loudness wars, I agree it's probably not worth getting a proper amp for the Susvara. Or getting a Susvara at all, for that matter. Imagine only listening to music that has so little dynamics that it could just as well be a 1k sine wave...
 
Jul 4, 2024 at 2:17 PM Post #165 of 173
The CMA review saga continues

 

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