[capetownwatches]

Is an HE-1000 Stealth Nano next?

I wouldn't bet against it...

 

[Sonic Defender]

Why 14 ohms?

Probably an unintentionally and unimportant design outcome. With planar designs impedance mismatching matters very, very little if at all in any practical sense so they probably were making design decisions that resulted in this outcome without really intentionally trying, but that is just speculation on my part. I'm bored, what can I say?

 

[lucanato]

Any graph?

 

[tvrboy]

I've gone right off Hifiman with all these different editions (which generally feel like a re-tuning). It destroys the re-sale value of previous models and I feel like I'm having to take a gamble each time. I'd have more confidence if they put some effort into headband design instead.

Nobody likes this business model, but it’s unavoidable that HiFiMan and other companies have shifted to slight improvements or “model years” because otherwise people would have no reason to buy new headphones. The unique nature of the used headphone market makes used headphones basically equivalent to new and gives enthusiasts little reason to ever buy a new headphone. Let’s look at some of the reasons people buy new goods when used are available, and why none of them apply to headphones:

1. The product degrades in function or appearance as it’s used

Using cars as an example, we all know that a used car is less valuable because cars degrade with use. However, headphones basically do not degrade at all. Drivers last for decades with no loss in function. You can buy a headphone from the 1990s (e.g. Sennheiser HD series) that sounds the same as it did when new. Drivers either work perfectly or are completely broken. If an HD-580 from the 90s lost 1% of its sound quality every year from driver degradation, that would be very noticeable, and nobody would buy them. But that doesn’t happen and the strongest evidence for this is that people are still buying them. Even the drivers that appear most fragile and complex (estats and orthos) last decades, as evidenced by the popularity of Yamaha Orthos and Stax Lambdas, many of which are 40+ years old at this point. In terms of cosmetics, yes headphones do get scratched up, paint chips, etc. But since most headphones are durable plastic, normal use has little effect on cosmetics, and most buyers are willing to accept some scratches for 50% off the retail price.

(Yes, I have restored vintage headphones and I know that earpads and acoustic foam degrades over the course of decades. But most enthusiasts are looking at modern headphones made in the last 10 years or so after the headphone revolution kicked off around 2008).

2. New products have a warranty and OEM support

Not a big deal in light of the first point that headphones don’t degrade in function. If a headphone has been on the market for a year, any issues like failing drivers will be well-known from the headphone community and used buyers can avoid those models.

3. You can customize the product exactly how you want when you order new

Headphone companies generally do not offer customization. One exception I can think of is ZMF, and in that case the ability to customize does offer an incentive to buy new.

4. Supply shortages

Rarely a factor in the headphone world. The classifieds are filled with flagship headphones (Dan Clark Stealth, LCD-5, etc.) and you can get pretty much anything you want used if you are willing to wait a few weeks. This will always be amazing to me, but the classifieds are filled with $4000 headphones where the listing says "bought to try, listened for a few hours and didn't like it". Again, ZMF bucks the trend with long wait times for new headphones and owners generally holding onto them for a long time.

5. Prestige / social status / good feelings

We know that headphone enthusiasts are basement-dwelling autists with no social life, so social status does not apply here. Joking aside, headphones are a private purchase that rarely gets shared with others, unlike a new car. It is also much more impressive to non-enthusiasts to get a bargain: my co-workers think I’m a lunatic for buying a 1K headphone new, but are impressed when I tell them I scored my 1K headphone on the used market for 50% off retail.

6. Transaction costs

The transaction costs for buying a used headphone are negligible since any headphone can be shipped cross country for about $25. One could argue that potential fraud increases transaction costs, but most buyers either use PayPal goods and services with fraud protection, or don’t seem to care at all. Fraud has certainly not stopped Head-Fi classifieds and r/avexchange from flourishing.

7. I want it now!
I will definitely concede that when a new headphone is released, many enthusiasts would prefer to own it immediately rather than wait a few months for it to become common in the classifies. Personally, I do buy new headphones a few times per year for this reason. But a few months after the release, used models are readily available. I would guess that headphone companies make 80% of their sales in the month after release and I'd love to see data on that if anyone has it, but I've never seen a headphone company release sales numbers.


In summary, headphone companies’ biggest competitor is always their own used models, and they need to update to keep sales up. Yes, I know that exceptions apply to each of the points I made above, and we could nit-pick by saying "but the R10 bio-cellulose drivers are degrading!!!!!" or something like that. I am speaking in generalities. That said, I am not quite a fan of the way HiFiMan does this. Upgrades seem to be extremely minor and even owners can be puzzled about what exactly the differences are. Personally, I would be more inclined to buy from a company that makes slower but substantial changes to their model line instead of incremental “model year” changes. HiFiMan headphones also lose value the quickest of any major brand and the company does not help by offering incredibly steep discounts on current models (I've seen brand new R9s offered on their website for half off). I don't want to single out HiFiMan though, it's pretty clear rapid minor revisions is the dominant business model now with companies like Focal and Sennheiser doing the same.

 

[trellus]

Probably an unintentionally and unimportant design outcome. With planar designs impedance mismatching matters very, very little if at all in any practical sense so they probably were making design decisions that resulted in this outcome without really intentionally trying, but that is just speculation on my part. I'm bored, what can I say?

The issue with really low impedance is that as some headphone amps struggle more to drive the load as impedance starts inching into speaker territory levels of impedance, Now, 14 ohms isn’t 8 ohms but it’s not as far away as 24 or 32.

 

[Nickapalooza86]

Bought the Ananda Stealth 2 weeks ago... Great timing as usual

 

[Daorom]

Nobody likes this business model, but it’s unavoidable that HiFiMan and other companies have shifted to slight improvements or “model years” because otherwise people would have no reason to buy new headphones. The unique nature of the used headphone market makes used headphones basically equivalent to new and gives enthusiasts little reason to ever buy a new headphone. Let’s look at some of the reasons people buy new goods when used are available, and why none of them apply to headphones:

1. The product degrades in function or appearance as it’s used

Using cars as an example, we all know that a used car is less valuable because cars degrade with use. However, headphones basically do not degrade at all. Drivers last for decades with no loss in function. You can buy a headphone from the 1990s (e.g. Sennheiser HD series) that sounds the same as it did when new. Drivers either work perfectly or are completely broken. If an HD-580 from the 90s lost 1% of its sound quality every year from driver degradation, that would be very noticeable, and nobody would buy them. But that doesn’t happen and the strongest evidence for this is that people are still buying them. Even the drivers that appear most fragile and complex (estats and orthos) last decades, as evidenced by the popularity of Yamaha Orthos and Stax Lambdas, many of which are 40+ years old at this point. In terms of cosmetics, yes headphones do get scratched up, paint chips, etc. But since most headphones are durable plastic, normal use has little effect on cosmetics, and most buyers are willing to accept some scratches for 50% off the retail price.

(Yes, I have restored vintage headphones and I know that earpads and acoustic foam degrades over the course of decades. But most enthusiasts are looking at modern headphones made in the last 10 years or so after the headphone revolution kicked off around 2008).

2. New products have a warranty and OEM support

Not a big deal in light of the first point that headphones don’t degrade in function. If a headphone has been on the market for a year, any issues like failing drivers will be well-known from the headphone community and used buyers can avoid those models.

3. You can customize the product exactly how you want when you order new

Headphone companies generally do not offer customization. One exception I can think of is ZMF, and in that case the ability to customize does offer an incentive to buy new.

4. Supply shortages

Rarely a factor in the headphone world. The classifieds are filled with flagship headphones (Dan Clark Stealth, LCD-5, etc.) and you can get pretty much anything you want used if you are willing to wait a few weeks. This will always be amazing to me, but the classifieds are filled with $4000 headphones where the listing says "bought to try, listened for a few hours and didn't like it". Again, ZMF bucks the trend with long wait times for new headphones and owners generally holding onto them for a long time.

5. Prestige / social status / good feelings

We know that headphone enthusiasts are basement-dwelling autists with no social life, so social status does not apply here. Joking aside, headphones are a private purchase that rarely gets shared with others, unlike a new car. It is also much more impressive to non-enthusiasts to get a bargain: my co-workers think I’m a lunatic for buying a 1K headphone new, but are impressed when I tell them I scored my 1K headphone on the used market for 50% off retail.

6. Transaction costs

The transaction costs for buying a used headphone are negligible since any headphone can be shipped cross country for about $25. One could argue that potential fraud increases transaction costs, but most buyers either use PayPal goods and services with fraud protection, or don’t seem to care at all. Fraud has certainly not stopped Head-Fi classifieds and r/avexchange from flourishing.

7. I want it now!
I will definitely concede that when a new headphone is released, many enthusiasts would prefer to own it immediately rather than wait a few months for it to become common in the classifies. Personally, I do buy new headphones a few times per year for this reason. But a few months after the release, used models are readily available. I would guess that headphone companies make 80% of their sales in the month after release and I'd love to see data on that if anyone has it, but I've never seen a headphone company release sales numbers.


In summary, headphone companies’ biggest competitor is always their own used models, and they need to update to keep sales up. Yes, I know that exceptions apply to each of the points I made above, and we could nit-pick by saying "but the R10 bio-cellulose drivers are degrading!!!!!" or something like that. I am speaking in generalities. That said, I am not quite a fan of the way HiFiMan does this. Upgrades seem to be extremely minor and even owners can be puzzled about what exactly the differences are. Personally, I would be more inclined to buy from a company that makes slower but substantial changes to their model line instead of incremental “model year” changes. HiFiMan headphones also lose value the quickest of any major brand and the company does not help by offering incredibly steep discounts on current models (I've seen brand new R9s offered on their website for half off). I don't want to single out HiFiMan though, it's pretty clear rapid minor revisions is the dominant business model now with companies like Focal and Sennheiser doing the same.

All right.However, it's good that updated versions of such a long-playing product are being released! This knocks down the price of previous versions, especially used ones. This is in our hands.
And if the user really likes the old product, then there is no need to upgrade.In any case, until a lot of feedback on new models is made or until they are personally tested.

 

[Sonic Defender]

The issue with really low impedance is that as some headphone amps struggle more to drive the load as impedance starts inching into speaker territory levels of impedance, Now, 14 ohms isn’t 8 ohms but it’s not as far away as 24 or 32.

Fair enough, but how much extra strain on an amplifier would depend on the amplifier design. I imagine a decently designed solid state amplifier should be ok, but yes, it could be a factor so very good point.

 

[ahmonge]

I imagine a decently designed solid state amplifier should be ok

This is how it should be since their bigger brothers, speaker amplifiers, have been providing tens or hundreds of watts to 4 Ohm loads for many years.

 

[Sonic Defender]

This is how it should be since their bigger brothers, speaker amplifiers, have been providing tens or hundreds of watts to 4 Ohm loads for many years.

Yes and essentially, if you pick an amplifier that is designed to provide adequate current, which is well within the typical design topology of plenty of solid state amps, with the fact that as a load a planar headphone doesn't present much variability across the frequencies, acting almost as a purely resistive load, the low impedance of this headphone should not present any undue problem for the amp.

 

[IXOYE]

I would have preferred to see them give it Arya's headband.

 

[ahmonge]

I would have preferred to see them give it Arya's headband.

Absolutely. Current headband, without horizontal swivel, is a hit or miss. My Ananda only concern.

 

[Nickapalooza86]

I would have preferred to see them give it Arya's headband.

Ya I don't have a problem with the fit of the ear cups of my Ananda Stealth but I can see someone without my fat round head having a issue with the fit. I did have a problem clamp but that has stretched out by just wearing them a lot the last couple weeks or I just got used to it, either way they are very comfortable now... Much better than the XS was when it was just falling off my head when I moved.

 

[fabien32]

What is the advantage of having 14 ohms?

Easy to drive

 

[Ichos]

The new thinner diaphragm is very transparent, fast and detailed.