Interesting machine from Luxury n Precision

[tone.texture.soul]

Hi All

Firstly, after doing a full cycle the battery works fine. Thanks for that!

Now that I have had a chance to really listen to the DAP a lot I have some questions. There have been some glorious moments, but to be very honest the more I listen the more I am finding a problem. This has been a difficult experience for me, and while I know that sound is VERY subjective, I really wonder if I got a faulty machine. I would greatly appreciate your input on this.

1- When I play DSD files there is some low level noise, like vinyl scratching, popping, clicking. I have played the same files on my A&K and dead silent. Mostly noticeable at the end of songs, as they fade out you can hear it. @twister6 told me to try songs from SD card and onboard memory to see if it's a buffer issue - no change. I have identical PCM versions of the same albums and they are dead quiet. I've also tried changing from native DSD to PCM encoding, no change.

2 - I am confused about the sound. I know it's dangerous to say "what I expected" and of course it's all subjective, but my P6 Pro has strange sound. To me it's a bit dirty and gritty, sometimes making me feel like there is some clipping. It's quite lean and bright in the upper mids treble region which is not at all what i was expecting. Almost like an out of phase sound, though I tried the 180 degree setting and no change. Compared to my A&K it's noticeably brighter, and thinner too, which is backwards to what I had heard. Honestly sometimes it sounds glorious and other times it's a bit scary like something is broken. It's not really very clean sounding, more like an analog console that is peaking a bit too high. I know that sound is subjective, but it doesn't make sense comparing the "perfect sound" everyone talks about with this DAP and what i have experienced. To me it sounds like some hardware issue, something isn't right.

So, I am wondering what to do. It's possible that perhaps this is all part of this DAP's character, that Raw analog means you hear more of the "bad mix", I could cope with that. But the sound bothers me - it could be that I don't like the way it's presented on this DAP but I would be really surprised. It really sounds broken to me. I have 20+ years as a mixing engineer and musician, I know what I am talking about to some extent. Do you all think that something is wrong with my P6 Pro? I made a preliminary contact with Andrew at Musicteck but 3 days no answer. Normally his communication is very good. I want your opinions so that if/when I have to send it back that my experience is backed up by you guys.

So - what do you all think? This was a huge investment for me, and while everyone LOVES this thing, I am left feeling quite distraught. I was expecting wonderful and clean and instead it's more like peaky, bright, lean and dirty. If it really is potentially broken then it needs to go back and either get replaced, or money back.

I really appreciate your help and thoughts on this

 

[Ojisan]

Hi All

Firstly, after doing a full cycle the battery works fine. Thanks for that! (Yes the battery meter isn't terribly accurate but that doesn't bother me much).

Now that I have had a chance to really listen to the DAP a lot I have some questions. There have been some glorious moments, but to be very honest the more I listen the more I am finding a problem. This has been a difficult experience for me, and while I know that sound is VERY subjective, I really wonder if I got a faulty machine. I would greatly appreciate your input on this.

1- When I play DSD files there is some low level noise, like vinyl scratching, popping, clicking. I have played the same files on my A&K and dead silent. Mostly noticeable at the end of songs, as they fade out you can hear it. @twister6 told me to try songs from SD card and onboard memory to see if it's a buffer issue - no change. I have identical PCM versions of the same albums and they are dead quiet. I've also tried changing from native DSD to PCM encoding, no change.

2 - I am confused about the sound. I know it's dangerous to say "what I expected" and of course it's all subjective, but my P6 Pro has strange sound. To me it's a bit dirty and gritty, sometimes making me feel like there is some clipping. It's quite lean and bright in the upper mids treble region which is not at all what i was expecting. Almost like an out of phase sound, though I tried the 180 degree setting and no change. Compared to my A&K it's noticeably brighter, and thinner too, which is backwards to what I had heard. Honestly sometimes it sounds glorious and other times it's a bit scary like something is broken. It's not really very clean sounding, more like an analog console that is peaking a bit too high. I know that sound is subjective, but it doesn't make sense comparing the "perfect sound" everyone talks about with this DAP and what i have experienced. To me it sounds like some hardware issue, something isn't right.

So, I am wondering what to do. It's possible that perhaps this is all part of this DAP's character, that Raw analog means you hear more of the "bad mix", I could cope with that. But the sound bothers me - it could be that I don't like the way it's presented on this DAP but I would be really surprised. It really sounds broken to me. I have 20+ years as a mixing engineer and musician, I know what I am talking about to some extent. Do you all think that something is wrong with my P6 Pro? I made a preliminary contact with Andrew at Musicteck and he is kind of dodging me which is a bit weird, 3 days no answer. But he's a busy guy so I'll cut him a break. I want your opinions so that if/when I have to send it back that my experience is backed up by you guys.

So - what do you all think? This was a huge investment for me, and while everyone LOVES this thing, I am left feeling quite distraught. I was expecting wonderful and clean and instead it's more like peaky, bright, lean and dirty. If it really is potentially broken then it needs to go back and either get replaced, or money back.

I really appreciate your help and thoughts on this

Hi, glad you got some of the problems out of the way!

Quick comments here:
1) DSD: Are you having problem with a higher rate DSD files like 256 and 512? I have had a problem with the album below in DSD256, like there is a faint electrical noise. It seems to be this album only but I don't have a lot of DSDs to test. Hard to say what is going on...

https://www.nativedsd.com/product/euddr1605-brotons-handel-tchaikovsky/

2) Are you using Traillii profile? The ones I tried for Traillii and FW10000 didn't sound great and bit compressed and broken. I keep it in Default profile.

Not sure what to make of "thin" sound. Can you share your IEM used and recording examples and which dap you are comparing to? Maybe one of us can help

 

[tone.texture.soul]

Hi, glad you got some of the problems out of the way!

Quick comments here:
1) DSD: Are you having problem with a higher rate DSD files like 256 and 512? I have had a problem with the album below in DSD256, like there is a faint electrical noise. It seems to be this album only but I don't have a lot of DSDs to test. Hard to say what is going on...

https://www.nativedsd.com/product/euddr1605-brotons-handel-tchaikovsky/

2) Are you using Traillii profile? The ones I tried for Traillii and FW10000 didn't sound great and bit compressed and broken. I keep it in Default profile.

Not sure what to make of "thin" sound. Can you share your IEM used and recording examples and which dap you are comparing to? Maybe one of us can help

Thanks for your help!

1) I have an enormous library of DSD, all SACD rips. Nothing over DSD 128, usually DSD 64. It does sound like an electrical noise, kind of like white noise and fluttering. It's not super loud, but on soft passages it's definitely noticeable. This would be least of my concerns, and if everything else is fine I would let it go.

2) I am using it with my A18t, with PW 1950 cable. I don't have any of the additional sound profiles installed, just default.

I have my A&K SE200 which has a very similar presentation to the SP2000, same DAC just a bit less amazing. It is noticeably less bright than my P6 Pro, mids are more relaxed too. Bass doesn't go as deep, but it's much cleaner and less grainy, dirty sounding.

For recordings I have loads of classic rock, jazz, ECM, but also have a lot of modern music, Electronic stuff too. For tests I have been listening to these albums:

- Snarky Puppy (HD Tracks 24-96) Culcha Vulcha
- Dire Straits albums (DSD 64 SACD 2015 Remasters)
- Jordan Rakei (Bandcamp 24-44.1) What We Call Life
- Bela Fleck - Drive (DSD 128 SACD)
- Lianna La Havas - Blood (HD Tracks 24-44.1)

Some tracks that stick out in my memory for being harsh:

John Mayer - Neon (DSD 64 SACD)
Robben Ford - The Champ (44.1 CD)

Thanks!

 

[bluestorm1992]

Thanks for your help!

1) I have an enormous library of DSD, all SACD rips. Nothing over DSD 128, usually DSD 64. It does sound like an electrical noise, kind of like white noise and fluttering. It's not super loud, but on soft passages it's definitely noticeable. This would be least of my concerns, and if everything else is fine I would let it go.

2) I am using it with my A18t, with PW 1950 cable. I don't have any of the additional sound profiles installed, just default.

I have my A&K SE200 which has a very similar presentation to the SP2000, same DAC just a bit less amazing. It is noticeably less bright than my P6 Pro, mids are more relaxed too. Bass doesn't go as deep, but it's much cleaner and less grainy, dirty sounding.

For recordings I have loads of classic rock, jazz, ECM, but also have a lot of modern music, Electronic stuff too. For tests I have been listening to these albums:

- Snarky Puppy (HD Tracks 24-96) Culcha Vulcha
- Dire Straits albums (DSD 64 SACD 2015 Remasters)
- Jordan Rakei (Bandcamp 24-44.1) What We Call Life
- Bela Fleck - Drive (DSD 128 SACD)
- Lianna La Havas - Blood (HD Tracks 24-44.1)

Some tracks that stick out in my memory for being harsh:

John Mayer - Neon (DSD 64 SACD)
Robben Ford - The Champ (44.1 CD)

Thanks!

I just noticed this: why is your volume at the max of 60? Did you turn the device into LO mode and forgot to turn it back? P6 Pro is such a powerful machine that it will blew my ears at 30.

 

[ayanachibi]

Thanks for your help!

1) I have an enormous library of DSD, all SACD rips. Nothing over DSD 128, usually DSD 64. It does sound like an electrical noise, kind of like white noise and fluttering. It's not super loud, but on soft passages it's definitely noticeable. This would be least of my concerns, and if everything else is fine I would let it go.

2) I am using it with my A18t, with PW 1950 cable. I don't have any of the additional sound profiles installed, just default.

I have my A&K SE200 which has a very similar presentation to the SP2000, same DAC just a bit less amazing. It is noticeably less bright than my P6 Pro, mids are more relaxed too. Bass doesn't go as deep, but it's much cleaner and less grainy, dirty sounding.

For recordings I have loads of classic rock, jazz, ECM, but also have a lot of modern music, Electronic stuff too. For tests I have been listening to these albums:

- Snarky Puppy (HD Tracks 24-96) Culcha Vulcha
- Dire Straits albums (DSD 64 SACD 2015 Remasters)
- Jordan Rakei (Bandcamp 24-44.1) What We Call Life
- Bela Fleck - Drive (DSD 128 SACD)
- Lianna La Havas - Blood (HD Tracks 24-44.1)

Some tracks that stick out in my memory for being harsh:

John Mayer - Neon (DSD 64 SACD)
Robben Ford - The Champ (44.1 CD)

Thanks!

Glad to hear the power cycle worked for you!

1. I personally have a very limited collection with DSD but all of my DSD I also bought the PCM equivalent for side by side comparison. For whatever it's worth, all of my DSDs has some background hisses and pops when played via P6 Pro and while more faint but still present on my Paw 6K. My guess is the DSDs are true raw recordings and unedited so some of the background noise went in the recording then edited out when converted to the PCM equivalents.

Seems like some DACs might be filtering the noise out when playing back DSD (perhaps being converted to PCM before output) while the P6 Pro just shoves everything thru unfiltered as it should.

2. As you mentioned this part might be a subjective where you might more treble sensitive but I tested the P6 pro with all of my IEMs (in my signature, along with my friend's B2, 1650cu, mest mkii) and I did not find the treble offensive at all.

With that said I did notice over time the treble becomes a bit more rounded off. I cannot attest if this is actual player burn in or brain burn in but at the very least it seems to have changed for the better. The soundstage and layering also improved over time compared to first listen. (I probably have around 200 hours on it by now(?) without performing a hard burn in.)

As a follow question, what memory card are you using? This player seems to be sensitive to the micro SD card used?

Brand and capacity is important here.

 

[tone.texture.soul]

I just noticed this: why is your volume at the max of 60? Did you turn the device into LO mode and forgot to turn it back? P6 Pro is such a powerful machine that it will blew my ears at 30.

This photo was while using it with the C9, so yes the LO is selected. But 90% of my listening was by itself.

And funny enough, I have to keep the volume around 35-42 on my unit. I was quite surprised - based on specs and efficient IEMs it should be crazy loud at 40...?

 

[tone.texture.soul]

Glad to hear the power cycle worked for you!

1. I personally have a very limited collection with DSD but all of my DSD I also bought the PCM equivalent for side by side comparison. For whatever it's worth, all of my DSDs has some background hisses and pops when played via P6 Pro and while more faint but still present on my Paw 6K. My guess is the DSDs are true raw recordings and unedited so some of the background noise went in the recording then edited out when converted to the PCM equivalents.

Seems like some DACs might be filtering the noise out when playing back DSD (perhaps being converted to PCM before output) while the P6 Pro just shoves everything thru unfiltered as it should.

2. As you mentioned this part might be a subjective where you might more treble sensitive but I tested the P6 pro with all of my IEMs (in my signature, along with my friend's B2, 1650cu, mest mkii) and I did not find the treble offensive at all.

With that said I did notice over time the treble becomes a bit more rounded off. I cannot attest if this is actual player burn in or brain burn in but at the very least it seems to have changed for the better. The soundstage and layering also improved over time compared to first listen. (I probably have around 200 hours on it by now(?) without performing a hard burn in.)

As a follow question, what memory card are you using? This player seems to be sensitive to the micro SD card used?

Brand and capacity is important here.

Thanks for your input!

1- DSD is definitely more raw in terms of processing, so yes it's possible there could be all the original noise. Though, when using PCM decoding this "should" disappear. I tried both on P6 Pro and found the noise to be identical. And this noise happens at the end of every song, like a pattern repeating itself. Like a bad filter cap or something, sitting there and popping and scratching. Again, if this was the only issue I wouldn’t care.

2 - I have about 250 hours on it now, and yes indeed it is quite different afterwards. Much more open. I would say that the treble did get smoother, but I would doubt that more break-in is needed. 250hrs should be more than sufficient? It's also not really the upper treble that is harsh, it's the upper mids the splash and crash and sibilance can be strong.

3 - I am using San Disk cards, I have a 512 and a 1Tb, both Ultra I believe. Identical symptoms with both. I may have a different card at home to try just to be sure - can a different SD card actually cause the sound to be bad? I could imagine sputtering playback or errors, but SQ changes?


Thanks!

 

[Kiats]

This photo was while using it with the C9, so yes the LO is selected. But 90% of my listening was by itself.

And funny enough, I have to keep the volume around 35-42 on my unit. I was quite surprised - based on specs and efficient IEMs it should be crazy loud at 40...?

Yes. That is puzzling. I am listening to the Fusang out of the P6 pro right now. Streaming out of an iPhone. And I am only at volume 20 on high gain...

 

[ayanachibi]

Thanks for your input!

1- DSD is definitely more raw in terms of processing, so yes it's possible there could be all the original noise. Though, when using PCM decoding this "should" disappear. I tried both on P6 Pro and found the noise to be identical. And this noise happens at the end of every song, like a pattern repeating itself. Like a bad filter cap or something, sitting there and popping and scratching. Again, if this was the only issue I wouldn’t care.

2 - I have about 250 hours on it now, and yes indeed it is quite different afterwards. Much more open. I would say that the treble did get smoother, but I would doubt that more break-in is needed. 250hrs should be more than sufficient? It's also not really the upper treble that is harsh, it's the upper mids the splash and crash and sibilance can be strong.

3 - I am using San Disk cards, I have a 512 and a 1Tb, both Ultra I believe. Identical symptoms with both. I may have a different card at home to try just to be sure - can a different SD card actually cause the sound to be bad? I could imagine sputtering playback or errors, but SQ changes?


Thanks!

You seem to have done a much more extensive effort testing DSD than I have (plus I have a very limited collection) so i think if someone else does their primary listening on DSD please chime in.

If you're using SanDisk micro SDs it's most likely NOT the issue.

Honestly your impressions on the upper mids is very baffling. At this point I have to wonder if it might be a bad unit? At least with mine I have zero sibilance issues with my unit across over 10 different IEM pairings all directly with player....and my volume never exceeded 9 on low gain even with the harder to drive annihilator...

Most of my IEM is happily driven at volume 4-5 low gain.

The most sensitive IEM in my collection (modded Zeus) runs at volume 2.

 

[tone.texture.soul]

You seem to have done a much more extensive effort testing DSD than I have (plus I have a very limited collection) so i think if someone else does their primary listening on DSD please chime in.

If you're using SanDisk micro SDs it's most likely NOT the issue.

Honestly your impressions on the upper mids is very baffling. At this point I have to wonder if it might be a bad unit? At least with mine I have zero sibilance issues with my unit across over 10 different IEM pairings all directly with player....and my volume never exceeded 9 on low gain even with the harder to drive annihilator...

Most of my IEM is happily driven at volume 4-5 low gain.

The most sensitive IEM in my collection (modded Zeus) runs at volume 2.

Honestly, i am inclined to agree with you, seems like a bad unit.

I need volume 30 or more to drive my A18t. I see photos of people's P6 Pro and the volume is on 10 or 15 maximum...

The sound is not just harsh, it's kind of distorted too. Low end stuff blows out, mids can be cringe worthy sometimes, with this grinding edge to them.
The clipping/distortion happens with my C9 and straight out of the P6 Pro, which makes me feel like it's something in the pre-amp section that is clipping. And the power section doesn't seem to work correctly either, given the volume I need to use for normal volumes.

 

[Ojisan]

Honestly, i am inclined to agree with you, seems like a bad unit.

I need volume 30 or more to drive my A18t. I see photos of people's P6 Pro and the volume is on 10 or 15 maximum...

The sound is not just harsh, it's kind of distorted too. Low end stuff blows out, mids can be cringe worthy sometimes, with this grinding edge to them.
The clipping/distortion happens with my C9 and straight out of the P6 Pro, which makes me feel like it's something in the pre-amp section that is clipping. And the power section doesn't seem to work correctly either, given the volume I need to use for normal volumes.

Yeah seems like some issue with the unit. I rarely listen past 20. I used U18s before and it was the same.

One more thing, how about listening out of 3.5mm (if you are using balanced, or vice versa)?

 

[tone.texture.soul]

Yeah seems like some issue with the unit. I rarely listen past 20. I used U18s before and it was the same.

One more thing, how about listening out of 3.5mm (if you are using balanced, or vice versa)?

Seems so

I hope that Andrew will do the right thing and get this fixed/swapped for me. Having this thing imported to the EU was a pain, I honestly don't know if I would even want a replacement unit, I am kind of burned on this thing - the week has been pretty awful.

I've actually never used the 3.5mm jack, I don't even have a cable with that termination anymore. I have an adapter, I can certainly try to see.

 

[Ojisan]

Seems so

I hope that Andrew will do the right thing and get this fixed/swapped for me. Having this thing imported to the EU was a pain, I honestly don't know if I would even want a replacement unit, I am kind of burned on this thing - the week has been pretty awful.

I've actually never used the 3.5mm jack, I don't even have a cable with that termination anymore. I have an adapter, I can certainly try to see.

That does sound painful and costly… If I were you, I would also try earlier firmware (and back if needed), just to make sure it is not some glitch from your recent update.

If 3.5 sounds fine, at least you can blame the balanced out. If it’s the same, it might be hard to explain but I’m sure Andrew will take care of you.

 

[ayanachibi]

Honestly, i am inclined to agree with you, seems like a bad unit.

I need volume 30 or more to drive my A18t. I see photos of people's P6 Pro and the volume is on 10 or 15 maximum...

The sound is not just harsh, it's kind of distorted too. Low end stuff blows out, mids can be cringe worthy sometimes, with this grinding edge to them.
The clipping/distortion happens with my C9 and straight out of the P6 Pro, which makes me feel like it's something in the pre-amp section that is clipping. And the power section doesn't seem to work correctly either, given the volume I need to use for normal volumes.

I've only attempted 3.5mm once and there was no degree of distortion or lack of detail that I noticed.

I definitely think you want to reach out to Andrew and see your options. I'm suspecting it might be the amp in your unit that might be bad if your are having both sound and volume issues.

 

[tone.texture.soul]

I've only attempted 3.5mm once and there was no degree of distortion or lack of detail that I noticed.

I definitely think you want to reach out to Andrew and see your options. I'm suspecting it might be the amp in your unit that might be bad if your are having both sound and volume issues.

That's a good idea, I'll try an older firmware as well. Where do I find them online?

I'll also try 3.5mm, just to see. It really seems like there is something hardware wise wrong with the unit. Power problem and potentially even preamp section as well, using my C9 I have the same degraded sound.