[teknorob23]

+1 Please? also vs dx200? Thanks!!

yes no probs, just need to spend some time with both units and me in room together, which is proving to be harder to achieve than it should

 

[lights]

I think we all know Astell&Kern have basically pushed the envelope as far as pricing their models. “If you can price it high and the consumer will pay...” is a motto whispered and implied by so many companies. I know they’ve tried to adjust prices on new models “downward” in what seems to be deference to the consumer, but I think they will make up for it in accessories (not included). Not gonna lie, I like their models and don’t like to b”tch about their pricing.

The high prices on their players can be justified by R&D and software development costs, and the bill of materials on the components must be at least $250.

However $79 for a PU case that could cost 50 cents to manufacture is crazy. The $150 - $300 leather cases can't cost them more than $10 to produce.

 

[mrmoto050]

Have any of the other models in their line-up ever come with a case though, other than the AK300? I was pretty surprised when my AK300 rocked up with a case in the packaging!

The SE100 is still really appealing to me - as I'm pretty sure there won't be many UI tweaks for the older range of players now - but i'm a bit surprised that there aren't any reviews coming out yet. Was expecting at least a preview/review from What HiFi before the release.

My Ak120 and AK100II came with a case.

 

[LondonGecko]

I like the products, and I like the sound... but the pricing is getting a bit silly for what is (or is not) included.

 

[tienbasse]

The high prices on their players can be justified by R&D and software development costs, and the bill of materials on the components must be at least $250.

However $79 for a PU case that could cost 50 cents to manufacture is crazy. The $150 - $300 leather cases can't cost them more than $10 to produce.

Using real leather requires handcrafting, there is no way it can cost 10$ (= less than a hour of labor), although that doesn't mean it's worth 300$ either.

The issue is not manufacturing price and R&D cost, the issue is that very few people are crazy enough to use a 2000$ dap without a case unless it stays at home, so providing some case with the DAP is not an option ... and they used to do this.

Additional Buttero leather cases for the AK120 were already worth 120$ in 2013, but the leather was just gorgeous, and they at least provided a brown one with the DAP.

 

[lights]

Using real leather requires handcrafting, there is no way it can cost 10$ (= less than a hour of labor), although that doesn't mean it's worth 300$ either.

The issue is not manufacturing price and R&D cost, the issue is that very few people are crazy enough to use a 2000$ dap without a case unless it stays at home, so providing some case with the DAP is not an option ... and they used to do this.

Additional Buttero leather cases for the AK120 were already worth 120$ in 2013, but the leather was just gorgeous, and they at least provided a brown one with the DAP.

I feel like you're underestimating how much this stuff really costs to produce when you purchase in volume. For example $5000 for 500 of these cases is not unreasonable even with labour costs.

The AK100 and AK120 II Buttero leather cases are now discounted to $19:

https://us.astellnkern.com/products/ak100-case

https://us.astellnkern.com/products/ak120-ii-case

Considering they're still sold at a profit that gives you good indication of the true production costs.

 

[tienbasse]

I feel like you're underestimating how much this stuff really costs to produce when you purchase in volume. For example $5000 for 500 of these cases is not unreasonable even with labour costs.

The AK100 and AK120 II Buttero leather cases are now discounted to $19:

https://us.astellnkern.com/products/ak100-case

https://us.astellnkern.com/products/ak120-ii-case

Considering they're still sold at a profit that gives you good indication of the true production costs.

I think you misunderstand something: not everything is manufactured in China/India/Pakistan at sub-5$/day rate.
Do you even have an idea of the hourly rate in most countries ? I do thanks to my work.
Don't go around and confuse real leather cases with p-leather or PU cases that we're nicely flooded with the "leather" mention by Chinese sellers on Amazon. Actual leather does cost money and requires operations that are completely unnecessary with false leather.

And the US don't have any law preventing rebates below the manufacturing cost, unlike most countries within the EU.
If they want to sell these "old" cases for 19$ on the US store, they can, just to get rid of stocks, because stocks cost money. Strangely enough, they're sold at least 3 times this price in Europe.
They obviously won't tell us here, but unlike electronics, margins with leathercrafting are not huge.
Even when women buy 1000$ luxury handbags, the margin is not 90% as you seem to imply.

 

[AndrewH13]

Away from cases

When is the official release date? Has no one anywhere heard these yet? Moon Audio site says 'shipping May'.

Do we have an idea what the 'radically different sound' is? Are we expecting more reference rather than warmer?
On test at Canjam, while I found the Kann a touch warmer, the Ultima appeared to my ears pretty Neutral. Where does that leave this different sound to go?

 

[lights]

I think you misunderstand something: not everything is manufactured in China/India/Pakistan at sub-5$/day rate.
Do you even have an idea of the hourly rate in most countries ? I do thanks to my work.
Don't go around and confuse real leather cases with p-leather or PU cases that we're nicely flooded with the "leather" mention by Chinese sellers on Amazon. Actual leather does cost money and requires operations that are completely unnecessary with false leather.

And the US don't have any law preventing rebates below the manufacturing cost, unlike most countries within the EU.
If they want to sell these "old" cases for 19$ on the US store, they can, just to get rid of stocks, because stocks cost money. Strangely enough, they're sold at least 3 times this price in Europe.
They obviously won't tell us here, but unlike electronics, margins with leathercrafting are not huge.
Even when women buy 1000$ luxury handbags, the margin is not 90% as you seem to imply.

Yes I am aware. That's why I mentioned a PU case could cost 50 cents to produce.

If you truly believe that the price of a $1000 handbag is comprised mostly of anything but profit margin you are deluded. Plus bags can go all the way up to $10,000 - $100,000. Manufacturing cost and price has no correlation for luxury brands. These are the same companies selling cotton t-shirts for $500 - $1000. Even luxury brands outsource their production to poorer countries within the EU. Some of Louis Vuitton's 'made in Italy' products are actually mostly produced in Romanians factories.

I own several AK products and understand that the markups are high, it's just a bit disappointing to see them not include something that they previously would have.

 

[peteh]

Manufacturing cost and price has no correlation for luxury brands

Couldn’t agree more. There are some goods - made to measure suits, bespoke shoes - where a large element of the price may be accounted for by skilled scarce labour or set up costs for a small production run but I find it hard to believe that selling a leather case, albeit designed for a specific limited production product, is not highly profitable at over $100. But hey, maybe their marketing people are all ex Apple

 

[R7photo]

Surprised cannot find anyone testing or comments on sq yet,, was thinking out in wild by now.

Curious sq on both players, compared to mk2 and kann

 

[R7photo]

Wish could translate

 

[LondonGecko]

When is the official release date?

I thought it was 1 June, but not seen may places selling them on the internet - let alone an actual phyiscal device

(None in the two audio shops near me, nor in Selfridges)

 

[stoobot]

Audio Sanctuary (UK, usual go to) are saying that they expect their SE100 stock to arrive around the 20th June. I'm guessing that other larger stockists (at least on this side of the sea) will see their stock landing around the same time.

 

[FrostClaus]

Can't wait to try this A&Futura.