[gLer]

Perhaps better to say TOTL 'sounding' FOR 99% of normal people!
Im sorry but the prices of the 64Audio & Empire ears are just ridiculous - worth it for their sound? Maybe....but the stupidly high prices put them out of reach of many
I hope Bob surpasses them in terms of quality with the Rah and for the price - pisses all over the arrogance of those who have created a world where some people find it acceptable to charge such prices....Again, Im not denying their quality. more the greed
Anyway, sorry and TBH If had $3000 just floating around to hand I would probably buy some 64 ears

Don’t get me wrong, I agree that some products are excessively priced, and of course, the price doesn’t make it x-amount better. Just because something costs 5x more than the Aten doesn’t make it sound 5x better. But that’s the thing with audio gear - improvements are not linear. If you want a 10%-20% improvement in some aspects of the sound, if you want more resolution, if you want a flat impedance curve, if you want a holographic sound presentation, then yes, it’s going to cost you significantly more than the sum of those parts. The thing about these ‘TOTL’ IEMs I mentioned is that they’re professional tools, generally made for musicians as custom orders, but thankfully also available to enthusiasts as both custom and universal models. The level of R&D and support and miniaturisation and high quality parts selection that’s gone into them far exceeds what even a great IEM designer like Bob can hope to produce, in a limited order run, for $500-odd. Again that’s not to say the Aten sound isn’t fabulous, and hopefully the Rah even more so, but that there are a few levels still to go in SQ and if you want to get there, unfortunately you have to pay for it. Otherwise we’d all be driving fancy sports cars around. Just because my BMW is an amazing car doesn’t make it a Lamborghini (and even then, ‘most people’ can only afford to drive a Toyota, and that’s ‘good enough’ for them).

 

[jon parker]

. The thing about these ‘TOTL’ IEMs I mentioned is that they’re professional tools, generally made for musicians as custom orders,.

Interesting & good points but you know, I have mixed and mastered some audio of late using the Tin Audio T2....and having gone back and checked my work have been surprised at how on point it was.
I can appreciate how certain elements of a custom created IEM can be very useful to the Sound Engineer but Im not sure why a musician 'needs' to pay that kind of money. Im curious what their needs are that would warrant this?

 

[gLer]

Interesting & good points but you know, I have mixed and mastered some audio of late using the Tin Audio T2....and having gone back and checked my work have been surprised at how on point it was.
I can appreciate how certain elements of a custom created IEM can be very useful to the Sound Engineer but Im not sure why a musician 'needs' to pay that kind of money. Im curious what their needs are that would warrant this?

It’s not so much about needs as just wanting to use the best available tech and having the means to afford it...

 

[jon parker]

It’s not so much about needs as just wanting to use the best available tech and having the means to afford it...

Yup, fair enough!

 

[warriorpoet]

Interesting & good points but you know, I have mixed and mastered some audio of late using the Tin Audio T2....and having gone back and checked my work have been surprised at how on point it was.
I can appreciate how certain elements of a custom created IEM can be very useful to the Sound Engineer but Im not sure why a musician 'needs' to pay that kind of money. Im curious what their needs are that would warrant this?

Isolation, accuracy, timbral control, spacial cues, etc.

I make and help others make music for a living. There are certainly significant reasons for using something better that a T2. Consumer products are great for consumption, and I enjoy quite a few of them for what they are, but let's not get too carried away- they aren't the same as a professional investment.

For what it's worth, this dichotomy exists in every industry I've encountered. There is always a cost associated with tools intended for professionals that exceeds the typical commercial value curve.

edit: a quick follow-up.

In talking with Bob about his vision for the Aten, it's clear he doesn't think of the R2s as analytical tools for pulling every nuance from music, either. They are, in his words, for enjoying music, not evaluating it. In that, I think they excel, and make a great partner for something more analytical, like my Alclair Studio 4, for instance.

For some of us who work in music, it's nice to come home and not be distracted by details, while other times, I want to hear every nuance with exceeding precision. The Atens are great for sitting back and enjoying music, too blunt to scrutinize it and that is totally OK! Not every IEM has to be a detail monster!

 

[Kundi]

Perhaps better to say TOTL 'sounding' FOR 99% of normal people!
Im sorry but the prices of the 64Audio & Empire ears are just ridiculous - worth it for their sound? Maybe....but the stupidly high prices put them out of reach of many
I hope Bob surpasses them in terms of quality with the Rah and for the price - pisses all over the arrogance of those who have created a world where some people find it acceptable to charge such prices....Again, Im not denying their quality. more the greed
Anyway, sorry and TBH If had $3000 just floating around to hand I would probably buy some 64 ears

I've been wanting to pick up the Noble Kaiser K10 from Massdrop, but i know as soon as i get it, i'm going to be dissapointed. I'm sure they are amazing, but the novelty would wear off pretty quickly.

 

[Ninosan]

I'm not as expert as you are, I just like listening to music. So I probably say nonsense but there is a detail that is not being discussed.
Like any headphone or IEM (I think) the audio quality changes as the sound pressure changes. To me who like listening to house genre, electronics, disco etc ... like listening to music at high pressures. So, of course I like to hear bass but if it were just him they wouldn't be IEM suitable for me.
This is to say that ATEN usually listens to them at high pressures and I have a certain qualitative response, more or less questionable, even according to one's own tastes.
But if you try to listen to ATEN at moderate volumes, with the right filters, I find that these IEMs are really very detailed and balanced.
Therefore, every impression or subjective test is always done considering the different levels of acoustic pressure (in my humble opinion).

 

[gLer]

I'm not as expert as you are, I just like listening to music. So I probably say nonsense but there is a detail that is not being discussed.
Like any headphone or IEM (I think) the audio quality changes as the sound pressure changes. To me who like listening to house genre, electronics, disco etc ... like listening to music at high pressures. So, of course I like to hear bass but if it were just him they wouldn't be IEM suitable for me.
This is to say that ATEN usually listens to them at high pressures and I have a certain qualitative response, more or less questionable, even according to one's own tastes.
But if you try to listen to ATEN at moderate volumes, with the right filters, I find that these IEMs are really very detailed and balanced.
Therefore, every impression or subjective test is always done considering the different levels of acoustic pressure (in my humble opinion).

If I understand what you’re trying to say (I assume you used Google Translate), then yes, volume makes a HUGE difference in how we perceive sound quality. If you only listen to music at low volumes, for example, you’ll probably have a very different opinion of the sound of the Aten (or any IEM and headphone for that matter), than if you regularly listen at higher volumes. Needless to say high volume listening is very bad for your hearing, especially with bass-heavy IEMs like Aten, but that aside, it’s important to describe the volume level when talking about SQ and overall presentation. It is much harder, for example, to pick up very small details in the music unless you’re listening at a certain volume, depending also on how good (or bad) your hearing might be, if you have tinnitus etc. I find the Aten has great bass response even at lower volumes, which is why I prefer the black bottom filter to anything with less bass. Using a lower bass filter would mean having to turn up the volume to get the same amount of bass that I enjoy, which would also bring forward all the other frequencies - and with the treble being as hot as it sometimes can be with the Aten and poor or bright recordings, you really don’t want that. So yes, volume is critical in the assessment of SQ.

PS. The mark of a really good IEM or headphone is how well it can convey details at lower volume, and how well it holds everything together at higher volumes (without clipping or distorting). The Aten passes both tests admirably.

 

[jeffhawke]

I'm not as expert as you are, I just like listening to music. So I probably say nonsense but there is a detail that is not being discussed.
Like any headphone or IEM (I think) the audio quality changes as the sound pressure changes. To me who like listening to house genre, electronics, disco etc ... like listening to music at high pressures. So, of course I like to hear bass but if it were just him they wouldn't be IEM suitable for me.
This is to say that ATEN usually listens to them at high pressures and I have a certain qualitative response, more or less questionable, even according to one's own tastes.
But if you try to listen to ATEN at moderate volumes, with the right filters, I find that these IEMs are really very detailed and balanced.
Therefore, every impression or subjective test is always done considering the different levels of acoustic pressure (in my humble opinion).

As a matter of fact, what you are subjectively but correctly describing is known in acoustics as the "Fletcher-Munson" effect, which is measured in the so-called isophonic curves.
https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

 

[Ninosan]

yes I used the google translator. Therefore, excuse my English.
You have perfectly achieved what I wanted to say. So, as Gler rightly says, every judgment should always be accompanied by a rough indication of sound pressure (which seems to me more correct to say instead of volume).

 

[Ninosan]

As a matter of fact, what you are subjectively but correctly describing is known in acoustics as the "Fletcher-Munson" effect, which is measured in the so-called isophonic curves.
https://ehomerecordingstudio.com/fletcher-munson-curve/

just what I was trying to say

 

[Ninosan]

new version of R2 ... red.
Honestly, this decision amazes me a lot.
In practice it is the classic R2 Aten but closed on the back.
I leave aside Bob's business strategies and I don't want to judge them, but I wonder spontaneously ..... Why propose a new pair of IEMs and force us to pay more money if the solution could be to predict (as well as the numerous filters) also a removable closure 'maybe paying just a little more for a couple of R Aten?
I begin to have doubts about Bob's decisions.

https://imracoustics.com/products/imr-r2-red

 

[gLer]

new version of R2 ... red.
Honestly, this decision amazes me a lot.
In practice it is the classic R2 Aten but closed on the back.
I leave aside Bob's business strategies and I don't want to judge them, but I wonder spontaneously ..... Why propose a new pair of IEMs and force us to pay more money if the solution could be to predict (as well as the numerous filters) also a removable closure 'maybe paying just a little more for a couple of R Aten?
I begin to have doubts about Bob's decisions.

https://imracoustics.com/products/imr-r2-red

I'm not sure why you're upset by this? It's a slightly different design, closed back (so probably more intimate soundstage), only one cable, smaller driver, so overall a less technically proficient but more affordable entry point to IMR's lineup. I think it's great that Bob is making his IEMs even more accessible price-wise. If you have the money, the original Aten still looks to be a better buy. As does the Rah. You really don't need to buy every IEM ever made you know

 

[jsmiller58]

new version of R2 ... red.
Honestly, this decision amazes me a lot.
In practice it is the classic R2 Aten but closed on the back.
I leave aside Bob's business strategies and I don't want to judge them, but I wonder spontaneously ..... Why propose a new pair of IEMs and force us to pay more money if the solution could be to predict (as well as the numerous filters) also a removable closure 'maybe paying just a little more for a couple of R Aten?
I begin to have doubts about Bob's decisions.

https://imracoustics.com/products/imr-r2-red

I think you might want to check your assumption / conclusion... Not R2 with grills closed.

 

[Ninosan]

in fact I was a bit hasty ....
The driver is different, only one cable and no filters (I think).
Yes, I believe there is a logic to this, bringing more customers closer to the brand by offering products at a more affordable price.
At the moment, having R2 Aten I see no reason to buy red too.