[williaty]

And especially considering that the USB connection to the MS II generation is async. Even the guy in charge of HRT says you don't benefit from audiophile USB cables with the MS II generation products.

 

[valtopps]

well thats nice to know, and less money i need to spend. i glad i went with this msII+ love every minute i listen to it.
 
just wondering how much more someone would have to spend to get a better dac than the msII+

 

[jronan2]

i have the d100 which is around a $100 or more than the MSII+, and is a better dac without question. With that said I love my MSII+ and no regrets making that purchase. I dont see a majopr difference with say my d7000's in the dac quality, but with something like the LCD 2's I easily hear a difference comparing the two, and the D100 really makes them shine over the MSII+.  I do hope to compare it to the Schiit Bifrost non usb since they are the same msrp price, along with a ton of hype until its release.

 

[Zitro407]

Question for any owners of the HRT MSII (not the +). I burn all my music using Zune software in WMA lossless format (I'm one of those weird ones with a Zune HD). Will the HRT recognize and function properly using Zune?

 

[tme110]

The MS2 is a usb based DAC that has to be plugged into something that has both a usb port and a usb controller (ie any actual computer but probably no smart phone or pad).  Granted the iStreamer can be used on an ipad but that's a specific application for that DAC.  I don't know anything about a Zune but I'm guessing it can't control a usb device.

 

[supra1988t]

Can anybody compare the MS or MS+ to an iBasso D10 used soley as a DAC?  I am currently using the D10 to run to my glow amp (which has a crummy DAC of its own) and would like to get something permanent for the desktop so the D10 will be just used in my portable rig.

 

[testikoff]

Quote:

Have a strange issue with 88.2 on Music Streamer II, fw 1.7 (not a +, I know ) and my Win XP Pro SP3 laptop running foobar2000+ASIO plug-in+ASIO4all. There is a clicking noise during 88.2 playback which doesn't occur on 44.1/48/96 sampling frequencies. Any clues maybe?

The issue seems to have resolved itself with MSII firmware update to v.1.8. About time

 

[Austin Morrow]

Just got mine yesterday and currently loving the sound it outputs. Clean, neutral, and resolved.
 

 

 

 

[parkjyh]

I have read that the difference between Music Streamer II and Music Streamer II+ to be slightly bigger sound-stage other than that, are there any huge differences in detail?
 
I ask because I am actually deaf in one ear so sound stage doesn't matter to me. Details however is important. Just wondering if the cost difference would be worth it.
 
I will be using it together with HD650 and O2 amp.
 
 

 

[walden]

I'm thinking about buying the Music Streamer II and ran into this amazon review. Any thoughts, or is this nonsense?
 
 

[size=small]I mean, come on.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]I bought one of these (when it had the trapezoid shaped case) based on glowing reviews. I didn't have a lot of cash in hand at the time that I was willing to sink into what was then a hobby project, and needed a more accurate DAC than I had available in my presonus firestudio mobile audio interface.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]I had no idea what on earth I was doing. I was going off of REVIEWS from people who were NOT audio engineers.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]The sound quality on every computer was horrible. Grating even, especially BRUTAL on female vocals. On laptops, OMG, you have got to be kidding me. I thought that THAT was "digital" sound that I was hearing.... not even close. The presonus firestudio mobile audio output blew it away for smoothness and overall correctness. All I could say for it was that one could hear SOMETHING coming out of it that resembled the original signal.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]I should have sent it back. Ah, the price of education.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]Today, I am hip deep in high end gear, and chock up this purchase to education on what NOT to do.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]An analog circuit engineer I have a LOT of respect for looked at the picture of the circuit board after I told him I had bought one, and he laughed.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]Why? It doesn't even have local power caps supporting the DAC chip or the output driver. Look at the circuit board... NO POWER SUPPLY FILTER CAPS anywhere. He said it was the most pathetic implementation of analog circuitry in a commercial DAC that he had ever seen in his entire life... making the digital wizardry a moot point. If you know anything at all about analog circuit design, look at the picture of the PC board. Tell me if you would actually buy that or recommend that to anyone. No power support capacitors on the main board. The designers had to be joking. That is the ONE place where NO AUDIO ENGINEER IN HIS RIGHT MIND WOULD EVER CUT CORNERS. It looks like an analog circuit designed by a digital engineer right out of a community college.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]Think about it... USB 2.0 power is low current. It uses explicit current limiting hardware on all USB 2.0 power connections. A DAC needs to drive 96,000 instantaneously changing power settings on it's analog stage every second, not counting what the digital variations are. This requires a large, local RESERVE that can only be provided by a large, local, capacitor. The end result is that the digital circuits tap the limited power, driving down the input voltage on the power rails in an erratic pattern at very high frequencies. Couple that with the sound dampened by the lack of available current transient ability from the USB current limiting hardware which is typically ridiculously cheap and not designed for audio applications. The digital and analog in this unit share the same current limited power source. Because of the nature of current limiting on the USB, they starve each other.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]Fingernails on a chalkboard and downright fuzzy is the only way to describe the result. Human ears are logarithmically sensitive to sound wave amplitude, so any erratic variations in the power source are clearly audible.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]Now, one could point to that mystery Chinese black box in the middle of the circuit board next to the audio stage, which looks suspiciously like some kind of power re-generator... the ad copy claims total isolation between the audio system and the computer.... which means there is either a miniature transformer or capacitor acting as isolator and a very fast oscillator driving that isolator with pulsed DC that becomes AC on the other end of the isolator and then a set of diodes, probably a voltage regulator (maybe, but they create a lot of heat, which probably is not practical here) and a leveling capacitor. So that suggests one small leveling capacitor for the entire analog stage, which is located in the internal power supply. High end analog circuits don't generally use switching power supplies... They are noisy as hell. A tiny switcher is NOT able to provide current transients needed for accurate 100 db signal variations.... The voltage and current are not steady enough for that kind of rating. Which is why nobody in their right mind uses them in mid grade and high end audio gear. A power re-generator of this tiny size just does not have the ability to insulate the audio circuit from the power fluctuations created by digital circuitry.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]The only reason I know of NOT to populate your analog stage with support caps like ELNA or Nichicon's at 10 cents a pop is to prevent your power regenerator from going unstable because it is so underpowered during power up that it cannot service the power demands of the charging capacitors... which means it cannot handle signal transients, ether.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]If you happen to find yourself stuck with one of these toy DAC's, the only way to get rid of effects from cheap power supplies and demanding digital circuits loading the shared power source is to feed it a higher current stable power source. You need more current available for transients than you find on USB 2.0. Don't let the DAC fall prey to el-cheapo current limiters on the motherboard or USB cards. To stop mangling human female vocals with that tell-tale underpowered switcher sound signature of fingernails on a chalkboard, drive it with a USB 3.0 port that has a feed directly to a high end PC ultra-low ripple power supply such as a Corsair TX650 or Ultra X4. It is the only way to get stable high transient capable power into the device - either that or get a USB 3.0 hub and replace the stock power supply for the hub with a 5 volt LINEAR power supply - NOT a switcher like a wall-wart. I gave up trying to find such a thing at a reasonable price.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]Your only hope is something like this: [/size][size=small]Plugable PCI Express to SuperSpeed USB 3.0 2-Port Expansion Card for Desktops (NEC/Renesas Chipset)[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]Even then, it is not anywhere NEAR the same league as a Muse or HifyDiy $50-$60 Chinese PCM1793 DAC from the bay... get a good SPDIF source (many PC motherboards have good ones). If you don't have one already get any $20 sound card or some of the Native Asynchronous 24/96 USB gadgets available for around $70, and a $30 12Volt linear power supply (lots of them on amazon) and it will BLOW this Toy away for half the price. There is absolutely no comparison. The Chinese labs turn out varying quality of stuff, so you have to know your analog circuitry to know what to chose - most of them put out stuff for people who like to swap out op-amps and such. Compare the pictures of these DAC's with the picture of this DAC. Everybody else in the industry packs every chip on their circuit boards with large, very FAST capacitors, usually at least as large as the tip of your pinkie finger. This one has only tiny SMD caps smaller than a grain of rice.[/size][size=small][/size]
[size=small][/size]
[size=small]To all you people who praise a device like this: you clearly have no reference points about what you can really get for $150 in a DAC. True, the DAC chip it uses is glorious. BB's are awesome. But the DAC chip is not the source of the audio quality: the analog stage and the power supply are. What you have here is something that is utterly not competitive in terms of sound quality. The root of virtually all problems in audio circuits is the quality of the power supply in the analog stage. This device tries to perform the job of a 4 pound power supply that you should be using (because they only cost about $30 retail here on amazon) in a device the size of the tip of your index finger. [/size]

 

 

[kstuart]

You should click on "comments" because that was immediately rebutted by the designer:
 
 
Quote:

James post makes me both laugh and cry at the same time.

He is a perfect example of an individual that 'shoots from the hip' and at the same time has the audacity to make such comments in a public forum with no effort to fact check first. Advocating the use of electrolytic capacitors for the power supply of a high speed, analog, digital or in this case mixed mode design is one of the most ill informed comments that I have ever read. The ESL and ESR of an electrolytic capacitor make them an utterly inappropriate choice for any of my designs. I have been both an analog and RF engineer for over 30 years now, I have designed products for countless High End Hi Fi, professional audio, digital cinema and RF companies in both the US and Europe. My background is physics, and I have the perspective of being involved as both an audio hardware engineer as well as a recording / mastering engineer.

Most importantly, I know full well what is best for my designs.

James lack of fundamental knowledge is simply absurd. Does any thinking individual honestly believe that I would leave out a $.10 capacitor if it were needed? Look at the dollar value of the large number of distributed capacitors I use. This choice is based upon an understanding of the needs of the circuit, not that of some shoot from the hip wanna be engineer. My designs achieve linearity and performance in our analog stages that products which costs orders of magnitude more could only dream of.

The tell tale comment by James is his statement which reads "...large, very FAST capacitors..." and he makes mention of ELNA and Nichicon as examples of what what he thinks should have been used. Quit simply, NO electrolytic capacitor will ever be FAST! At best, one electrolytic might be is faster than another brand / type of electrolytic, but that is the equivalent of advocating one snail's relative speed over another's! Quit simply BOTH are absurdly slow when viewed from the perspective of what one can achieve when not constrained by the such simple minded thinking. Any electrolytic capacitor's physical construction precludes speed and is dominated by the ESL which results from their fundamental design. You don't have to take my word for it, simply look at a SRF specification for any electrolytic and compare it to the same specification for a high performance ceramic, the difference is multiple orders of magnitude.

The number of inaccuracies and postulations that James has written exceeds that of both my time and interest in addressing in this forum. Should anyone be interested, they may contact me directly at my HRT email address. I will be more than happy to defend both my decisions and my designs. I could go further to point out James misconceptions but feel it would be unkind to do so in such a public place as Amazon.

Kevin Halverson
CTO
High Resolution Technologies, LLC

 

 

[CloakedMistborn]

Kevin with the epic boom.

 

[otinkyad]

Quote:

I have read that the difference between Music Streamer II and Music Streamer II+ to be slightly bigger sound-stage other than that, are there any huge differences in detail?
 
I ask because I am actually deaf in one ear so sound stage doesn't matter to me. Details however is important. Just wondering if the cost difference would be worth it.
 
I will be using it together with HD650 and O2 amp.
 
 

I had both at the same time, and couldn't tell much if any difference when A/B ing between them.  This was using 16/44.1K AIFF files --> MacbookPro --> iTunes --> HRT Streamer II or II+ --> Woo Audio WA6 or Matrix M-stage --> Audeze LCD2.   I kept the II and returned the II+.  I'd be interested to hear about other people's impressions based on direct comparison of the two.
 
 

 

[Austin Morrow]

Quote:

I had both at the same time, and couldn't tell much if any difference when A/B ing between them.  This was using 16/44.1K AIFF files --> MacbookPro --> iTunes --> HRT Streamer II or II+ --> Woo Audio WA6 or Matrix M-stage --> Audeze LCD2.   I kept the II and returned the II+.  I'd be interested to hear about other people's impressions based on direct comparison of the two.
 
 

I've heard both and am listening to the + version right now. They have minute differences and don't really think that the price difference is really justifiable for the plus upgrade.

 

[cpu8088]

I used a music streamer II for about a year and was going to upgrade to II+ but changed my mind. II and II+ do not handle 176 192 files. To play those I had to downsample. This is not bit perfect.
 
Now I sellle down with a Firestone ILTW which chan do async. I like it with indicators showing bit rates. It can handle anything from 44 to 48 88 96 176 192 without problem.