iFi iDSD Micro VS Chord HUGO
Mar 9, 2015 at 7:52 AM Post #76 of 163
hugo processes dsp and idsd processes analog, but i only tested hugo. it was the headven of sound!
 
now, if you ask me, i can guarantee 100% that i will write my thougths on comparation on them, soon, as they brought up idsds in the store in Romania!
 
Mar 9, 2015 at 8:02 AM Post #77 of 163
No problem!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141586578005
EDIT: for some reason that listing is coming up as ended, even though I only bought one and multiples are available... PM the seller, I'm sure he has more.


I ended up with those expensive AudioQuest ones which were available locally and not the cheaper eBay ones because my country has issues with overtaxing and all… I also got an AudioQuest DragonTail which is supposedly just an extension cable for the Dragonfly. It features the AudioQuest Carbon cable yet was cheaper than the 1 meter cables of lower models. Not to mention it's already a USB A male to A female so no need for an adapter. It's caveat but also possible strength is it's short length so less signal path. 
 
All that said, I can't put to words whether or not I hear an improvement. If anything, the BitPerfect hiss is even more obvious. 
 
Mar 9, 2015 at 8:40 AM Post #78 of 163
   
So how do sound engineer master DSD, you might ask? Well, they convert it to PCM first (namely DXD or DSD-wide), do whatever need to be done, then convert it back to DSD.

 
Hi,
 
The following is by our Thorsten, who is a former sound engineer.
 
 
 
 
1) What you have described is mixing and mastering "in the box".
 
Others indeed record in DSD, then convert to DXD (a form of PCM), edit, mix etc. In The Box does it digitally and converts back to DSD. It really varies from label to label and sometimes even from recording to recording for the same label.
 
If you do not mind our saying so, this is not the only way.
 
 
 
2) In modern studios, the mixing and mastering is very often done "out of the box", meaning in the analogue domain.
 
Among those who work in DSD, Michael Bishop (who cannot swing a cat in his trophy room because it is chock full grammy awards) of Telarc works this way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bishop_%28sound_engineer%29
 
Others, like Jared Sacks of Channel Classics work in pure DSD and do not mix/master at all, if at all possible and if there edits needed only the section of the recording needing editing is edited as DXD, the rest remains untouched. If edits go majorly south, then they do another take.
 

 
Yes, this is the same company who have joined with us for the Retro Stereo 50 competition over on another head-fi thread.
 

Take 2 real-world examples

 
The following are two Quad DSD256 recordings carried out by iFi Japan, the recoding team who led by Shimada-san who works for Enzo J-Fi LLC.
 
https://www.facebook.com/ryo.shimada.35?ref=ts&fref=ts
 
i. Technoboys Pulcraft Green Fund
TPGF recording is old style; overdub was done by an analogue mixer. Because TPGF needed a lot of channels due to their style of electronic music.
 
ii. Rie Fu (iFi exlcusive in the next few months)
The Rie fu recording process was not overdubbed. Only the six track recording method was used. This makes the recording sound almost like a direct cut via the analogue process.
 
However, there is one small additional stage only. The digital reverb is by Lexicon. This "wet" component is the only digital aspect. The "dry" component is native Quad DSD256.
 
What this means - the signal from the actual recording (Dry - no reverb) is original DSD and processed in the analogue domain.
 
To create the reverb the DSD signal must be converted to PCM (24/96), to create the reverb (Wet - with reverb). The PCM derived reverb (wet) and the DSD (dry) are then mixed analogue...
 
We hope all this has not confused you but at least you now get some insight into understanding how different recordings are carried out and they are not simple PCM or DSD.
 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/people/IFi-audio/61558986775162/ https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
Mar 12, 2015 at 10:57 AM Post #80 of 163
  http://rover901.pixnet.net/blog/post/232173994
 
an independent Hugo vs iDSD review from Hong Kong, use google translate, here is the summary:
 
"Finally, I sold my Hugo
 
Hugo is not bad, basically all aspects of Hugo IDSD than good. But give me a high IDSD music enjoyment. I used to listen IDSD pop, jazz, but more and more into the feelings! IDSD, so that makes me happy."

 
I read it and found it very interesting. So I took the liberty of spending the last week or so of translating this. Others who understand both languages correct me if I have made any errors but I do not think I have done any screw ups.  
gs1000.gif

 
 
 
Review: IFI Micro IDSD, a miraculously economic DAC

 
 
Recently I got an iFi Micro iDSD. I like it very much and would like to share with you.
 
iFi is a subsidiary of AMR. (As I understand it) iFi has two product ranges, micro and nano, the former is more advanced, slightly bigger, more expensive. Products are dac, psu, phono, ddc, buffer ... etc. Pricing from one thousand to over two thousand Hong Kong dollars (Editor: 1USD = 7.8HKD), the most expensive one is the micro iDSD that I’ve just bought, around HKD4,000 (I got it form the first batch which was a special HKD3xxx). It is designed for the entry level computer audio market. Entry computer audio peripheral products are currently dominated by cheap computer brands, iFi with a strong HiFi background breaks this tradition by providing excellent sound quality.
 
A few months before I purchased the Micro iDSD, I had bought iUSB, Gemini double-headed USB cable and iLink DDC, each around a thousand dollar, the quality is very high. I use them with the Chord Hugo / Squeezebox, they bring significant improvements to the sound. (will review them in another post)
 

 
(Squeezebox Touch with USB output, first use iUSB psu to cleanup USB, and then connect to the iLink DDC using Gemini Dual-Headed USB cable, and finally into the Chord Hugo via SPDIF coaxial for D to A decoding)
 
Support for the most advanced industry decoding
iFi's micro series, already has a decoder called iDAC, can support a maximum of 24/192, around Hong Kong 2k, words from people said it sounded quite good. iFi then introduced a more economical nano series, which includes the nano iDSD. It supports DSD decoding and only costs around HK$1300-1400 !!
 
Micro iDSD is the latest iFi DAC, built-in headphone amp, battery-powered, can be used on the go. If using the mobile phone as player (need to install USB player apps), with an OTG USB cable output to Micro iDSD, it can produce music and suitable for taking it to work. (With my LG G Flex, Grado 325iS headphones, the result is excellent, see below) the decoder chip is 2x BB dac chips, which can decode 8xDSD, 2xDXD. It can playback all the formats on the market, impressive.
 
Initially I didn’t intend to. But when I was the retail shop for the iLink, I said I would like one and shortly after I got a ring and said it had arrived and had a special launch promotion, so here it goes, talk about an unintentional purchase…
 

 
(Accessories inside the iFi micro iDSD box)
 
Headphone driving performance
In the office, I use the iDSD to drive the Grado SR325is, my music source is an android phone with USB Audio Player pro (upgraded to play DSD), digital signal out via an OTG cable to iDSD.
 
It is so much fun listening to it.
 
My current DAC, has Chord Hugo, has a neutral sound. All the HiFi elements were better, in the usual hifi areas than the iDSD. This is to be expected as the price difference is very big. But with my LG g flex line + USB Audio Player Pro into the iDSD driving Grado 325, it gives a full-body, sweet, liquid and produces quite an intoxicating sound. The vocals are sweet with body, highly enjoyable even with busy and lively pop and jazz tracks. I was very surprised, its musical charm/fun factor didn’t give much to the set up I have at home.  However, resolution and sound stage are still limited by the headphones.
 
In short, the iDSD’s performance with the above style of music is quite pleasing. Six thousand dollars is not a high-end setup for portable in today’s standard, but the iDSD together with the Grados, I think there is no need to spend any more money for a more expensive system.
 
 

 
 
Two channel performance at home
 
What is truly shocking is the iDSD’s two channel performance with a home system. In comparison with the Hugo, the Hugo bettered the iDSD in all areas, including resolution, power, recreation of space, high and low extensions, density, texture, transparency etc..., iDSD lost out on the Huge by a fair margin.
 
But when you hear iDSD, you will be hooked by its emotional feelings. When playing Beyond (a famous rock band in Hong Kong), the feeling is just right. The resolution, power, high and low extensions, density, texture, transparency etc... is it really that bad on the iDSD?
 
If not compared side by side, the iDSD is not bad at all. I liked it even more than the Northstar USB32 (a euro2000 machine) I had before. The iDSD does have a sound style similar to the Lavry DA11 (a usd1500) in a certain way, the iDSD may have slightly higher definition, the DA11 may have a bit more authority.
 
And this is the iDSD performance freshly new out of the box.
 
Wait till the iDSD has been burnt-in and I will share more you.
 
Question regarding usability (inevitably also comparing with Hugo)
 
Both machines are for portable travel. In terms of portability, hugo wins as the iDSD is too long.
 
Battery life, I did not do a full test, but should last 7-8 hours.
 
On operation, both are not difficult to use. But the power switch on the hugo is too small, the iDSD has large (half-inch) rotary power switch (it is also the volume control), even usable with gloves.
 
For daily use, the micro iDSD is not as user friendly as the hugo.
 
1) Power
 
For example, the charging method, in this regard too the hugo is outstanding. hugo and iDSD both have built-in lithium battery. To operate it must first be charged. Hugo has a separate DC input, small wall plug power supply and charge the hugo with a DC cable. When used in home as a two-channel DAC, you can leave this connection in all the time, Hugo would cut electricity when there is sufficient power. It will start charging when power drops themselves. Basically plug and play, no need to bother too much. The iDSD is obviously less easy to use than hugo. The iDSD relies on the USB socket for charging, this socket also carries USB signal input. I connect this USB socket to a PC (computer audio source) for decoding use, it cannot play and charge at the same time, the iDSD will shut itself down after the power runs out, cannot play and charge at the same time. If one wants to use computer audio source to listen to music the next day, he must charge the iDSD the night before. . . . . iFi does not include a charger neither. If you want to charge the iDSD, use the supplied USB cable together with a mobile phone charger. Because the side where my home hifi cabinet sits I don’t have spare outlets for phone charger (I do not want to), so for each charge, I need to disconnect all the wiring on the iDSD and move it to the other side of the living room for charging, very troublesome. Finally, to solve the problem, I made a special USB socket of with LPS (linear power supply) especially for iDSD charging. (I believe the iDSD is mainly design for on the go application, hence these inconveniences cannot be avoided).
 
2) Connections
 
In terms of connections, hugo has a total of four sets of inputs. But all the socket spacings are too small, especially the RCA outlet, I only have one pair of interconnect that can be used. Instead the iDSD have no spacing issue, but only has one coaxial and one USB input. The USB socket is designed for use with OTG cable (USB female plug), or using an adaptor to connect with an USB cable, the sound will be significantly discounted.
 
The Hugo's spdif inputs can take DSD signal. I can use iFi iLink DDC convert USB signal from CAS / Squeezebox to spdif signal (maintaining native DSD signal) to Hugo's SDPIF input (better sound than its USB input). On the other hand, for playing DSD, iFi micro IDSD can only use USB input. Hence it can’t enjoy the benefit brought by the iLink DDC.
 

 
 
Final words
 
Finally, I sold my Hugo.
 
It’s not that the Hugo is bad, basically Hugo is better than the iDSD on all aspects. But the iDSD provided me with the same level of music enjoyment. When I use iDSD to listen to pop, jazz, I am actually involved more emotionally! The iDSD, just makes me happy.
 

 
 
(Rotary power switch. Headphone output.)
 
 

 
(iDSD the USB/SPDIF input)
 
 

 
(The bottom side.)
 
 

 
(All kinds of filters, power mode (for headphone) and polarity adjustment)
 
 

 
(Power output for charging .... the iDSD can act as a mobile power pack to power to your mobile equipment.)

 
 
Mar 12, 2015 at 11:22 AM Post #81 of 163
thanks, and special thanks for the effort to translate it.
 
you're making me feel better and better about buying my micro [and saving US$2000].
 
Mar 17, 2015 at 12:56 PM Post #82 of 163
Try the link posted below here: from post # 126 and beyond, it is worth the read, better than a newspaper for sure...all good!

:cool:
Spoiler Alert:
Bottom Line...Hugo 1. iFi DSD .9999999999998 huge price difference...different on different recordings, power supplies, head gear music, tracks, chords etc etc.

http://forums.vr-zone.com/audiophiles-htpc-corner/3030876-geekout-se-w-crystek-femto-micro-idsd-chord-hugo-ha22tubex-9.html


Great work translating the review above! Thanks rickyleelee!

Scrolled through that entire vr-zone thread. Crazy stuff! Who is that Siggy1 guy?

I'm almost sold on the Micro. Can anyone recommend a US online seller? I'll have it sent to a friend who can bring it back to Taiwan for me.
 
Mar 21, 2015 at 12:21 PM Post #84 of 163
Was planning to order from Music Direct and have my friend bring it back in June. But I just discovered a local seller on Taiwan's version of Amazon just discounted it by 40%
biggrin.gif

So I'm going to pull the trigger and have it delivered to my doorstep for US$315.
 
Mar 21, 2015 at 12:31 PM Post #86 of 163
  That's an exceptionally good deal.

 
Yes. When I first searched for local sellers, it came up at over US$630. I was down at my favourite store demoing T1, PM-2, HE-400i/560 and looked it up to show the sales guy who wasn't familiar with iFi (not much presence here in Taiwan). Low and behold, this bargain price came up. I think that's less than half what it was going for in Singapore when it first came out.
 
Here's the listing on PChome, for what it's worth.
http://www.pcstore.com.tw/3cmusic/M16529816.htm
 
Mar 21, 2015 at 2:34 PM Post #87 of 163
   
Yes. When I first searched for local sellers, it came up at over US$630. I was down at my favourite store demoing T1, PM-2, HE-400i/560 and looked it up to show the sales guy who wasn't familiar with iFi (not much presence here in Taiwan). Low and behold, this bargain price came up. I think that's less than half what it was going for in Singapore when it first came out.
 
Here's the listing on PChome, for what it's worth.
http://www.pcstore.com.tw/3cmusic/M16529816.htm

 
That link/listing shows the iDac not the iDSD Micro.
 
Mar 21, 2015 at 6:03 PM Post #88 of 163
Mar 22, 2015 at 8:55 AM Post #89 of 163
Great work translating the review above! Thanks rickyleelee!

Scrolled through that entire vr-zone thread. Crazy stuff! Who is that Siggy1 guy?

I'm almost sold on the Micro. Can anyone recommend a US online seller? I'll have it sent to a friend who can bring it back to Taiwan for me.


I bought my iDSD Micro from Signature Sound, who is local here in the New York area. Rich (owner) turned out to be a great guy and extremely helpful. If your friend is on the east coast he/she might be able to stop in and pick one up in person...
 
Mar 22, 2015 at 9:07 AM Post #90 of 163
 
knorris908 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I bought my iDSD Micro from Signature Sound, who is local here in the New York area. Rich (owner) turned out to be a great guy and extremely helpful. If your friend is on the east coast he/she might be able to stop in and pick one up in person...

 
Thanks, but my friend is in the greater Bay Area. It would be less of an imposition to have it delivered to her home. Music Direct has been recommended to me on the Impressions thread.
 

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