[Dobrescu George]

  Just to mention: DSD, because of its 1 bit nature, must uses analog filter, as any kind of digital manipulation will eat into its bit depth and there is just no room to reduce in a 1 bit file.

so.. this means that DSD files can only be poorly edited, as they must be edited analog, which in return will need to be transformed again in digital after editing?

 

[ClieOS]

  so.. this means that DSD files can only be poorly edited, as they must be edited analog, which in return will need to be transformed again in digital after editing?

 
It means you can not have any kind of digital processing on DSD, period. So how do sound engineer master DSD, you might ask? Well, they convert it to PCM first (namely DXD or DSD-wide), do whatever need to be done, then convert it back to DSD. But that's assuming the original recording is done in DSD in the first place (*which isn't uncommon actually). Sometime it can be done in analog tape as well as PCM. So that means there isn't really any universal standard used for recording and mastering that everyone follows. One album might have been recorded in DSD, mastered in hi-res PCM, downsampled to red-book standard (16/44.1) for CD released, then the red-book get converted back to DSD again for SACD release. A good example is Norah Jones's Come Away with Me: it was originally recorded in analog tape, mixed and mastered to red-book for CD release, then the red-book was remastered to DSD for SACD release when she got really famous (so essentially the SACD doesn't offer anything more than the red-book CD, except in a different format). The same analog tape was then remastered by two different companies: HD Track / Blue Note remastered it to hi-res PCM, where Acoustic Sounds remastered it to DSD. So we ended up with three different version of the same album.

 

[Dobrescu George]

thanks for the info!
 
then, i guess that i will be sticking with my old, but more than enough redbook. I don't really like the perspective of hundreds of transformations being done, because it has no winning side. 
 
or, i should get dsd files, and convert myself, with pro software to redbook, to have the advantage of a new re-master, but keep the friendly size!

 

[Earbones]

On an unrelated note, on a whim I put some of those RCA noise stoppers on my Micro iDSD... I've always thought those were basically snake-oil when it comes to a full-size setup. But when it comes to mating a system with something picking up radio or cell signals (like a Micro iDSD with an iPhone or iPod strapped to it), I guess there's actually some truth to it...

At any rate, I slapped them on because I figured they'd look better and be more durable than the cheap rubber RCA caps it came with... I wasn't expecting any audible upgrade. But I got one...

I don't think anybody will accuse the Micro iDSD of being noisy when strapped to a phone, I never heard anything overt... But listening to it with the noise stoppers in place there is definitely a difference. The background goes from let's say a very dark grey to an inky black. A similar experience to when you're in a house and the power goes out... You didn't realize it was a bit noisy before. Kind of cool.

For anyone interested, I didn't go for the expensive AudioQuest ones, they didn't look like they'd fit, anyway... They seem to have wide lips at the ends, and it appeared the one next to the USB port would overhang, blocking cable access, so I just picked up some generic lipless noise stoppers on eBay... Some rhodium plated ones. Ran me $12.98 shipped. Definitely worth it.

 

[EVOLVIST]

Just to mention: DSD, because of its 1 bit nature, must uses analog filter, as any kind of digital manipulation will eat into its bit depth and there is just no room to reduce in a 1 bit file.

True. Just that for native DSD DACs - and I've demoed about 4 of them, with the exception of the Hugo - for some reason the Extended filter on the iDSD micro sounds the most alive and musical than any other native DSD converter.

So, all told, when I set my iDSD to bit-perfect for redbook and Extended for DSD, I know of no other DAC that outputs so pleasurable across my personal listening spectrum like the micro does. Sure, I have to flip a switch, but this only serves to add to my pre-listening ritual in a positive way.

...and everyone has a pre-listening ritual right?

 

[Earbones]

True. Just that for native DSD DACs - and I've demoed about 4 of them, with the exception of the Hugo - for some reason the Extended filter on the iDSD micro sounds the most alive and musical than any other native DSD converter.

So, all told, when I set my iDSD to bit-perfect for redbook and Extended for DSD, I know of no other DAC that outputs so pleasurable across my personal listening spectrum like the micro does. Sure, I have to flip a switch, but this only serves to add to my pre-listening ritual in a positive way.

...and everyone has a pre-listening ritual right?

"Extended"? Is that a setting on the iDSD?

 

[ClieOS]

"Extended"? Is that a setting on the iDSD?

 
The Standard / Minimum Phase / Bit-Perfect filter switch for PCM playback also serves a double duty as the switch for the analog Standard / Extended / Extreme filter in DSD playback.

 

[Earbones]

The Standard / Minimum Phase / Bit-Perfect filter switch for PCM playback also serves a double duty as the switch for the analog Standard / Extended / Extreme filter in DSD playback.

Oh... I've been listening to DSDs (the few I have) on the Bit-Perfect/Extreme setting... They sound better on Minimum Phase/Extended?

 

[maricius]

On an unrelated note, on a whim I put some of those RCA noise stoppers on my Micro iDSD... I've always thought those were basically snake-oil when it comes to a full-size setup. But when it comes to mating a system with something picking up radio or cell signals (like a Micro iDSD with an iPhone or iPod strapped to it), I guess there's actually some truth to it...

At any rate, I slapped them on because I figured they'd look better and be more durable than the cheap rubber RCA caps it came with... I wasn't expecting any audible upgrade. But I got one...

I don't think anybody will accuse the Micro iDSD of being noisy when strapped to a phone, I never heard anything overt... But listening to it with the noise stoppers in place there is definitely a difference. The background goes from let's say a very dark grey to an inky black. A similar experience to when you're in a house and the power goes out... You didn't realize it was a bit noisy before. Kind of cool.

For anyone interested, I didn't go for the expensive AudioQuest ones, they didn't look like they'd fit, anyway... They seem to have wide lips at the ends, and it appeared the one next to the USB port would overhang, blocking cable access, so I just picked up some generic lipless noise stoppers on eBay... Some rhodium plated ones. Ran me $12.98 shipped. Definitely worth it.

Do you mind linking us? 

 
 

Oh... I've been listening to DSDs (the few I have) on the Bit-Perfect/Extreme setting... They sound better on Minimum Phase/Extended?

The PCM digital filters are independent from the DSD analog filters!! BitPerfect is not Extreme nor is Minimum Phase, Extended.

 

[Earbones]

Do you mind linking us? :rolleyes:  

No problem!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141586578005
EDIT: for some reason that listing is coming up as ended, even though I only bought one and multiples are available... PM the seller, I'm sure he has more.

 

[gr8soundz]

Took awhile, but I found a comparison here (without having to translate):
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/315#post_10801074

 

[maricius]

Took awhile, but I found a comparison here (without having to translate):

http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/315#post_10801074

I've read that before but didn't pay too much attention to it as first and foremost he notes he hasn't burned them in yet with only three days of listening in which is far too little in my opinion. Secondly, other than the "losing control in the upper midrange" the analysis and comparison wasn't too in depth without too much comparison both in technicalities and tonality. Lastly, what makes the Hugo better than the not burned in iDSD is that it is more 'refined' and that it is more musical. It doesn't get much more subjective than that.

All in all, ClieOS and some of the translated pieces have considerably more detailed comparisons. Dig deeper my friend

 

[gr8soundz]

I've read that before but didn't pay too much attention to it as first and foremost he notes he hasn't burned them in yet with only three days of listening in which is far too little in my opinion. Secondly, other than the "losing control in the upper midrange" the analysis and comparison wasn't too in depth without too much comparison both in technicalities and tonality. Lastly, what makes the Hugo better than the not burned in iDSD is that it is more 'refined' and that it is more musical. It doesn't get much more subjective than that.

All in all, ClieOS and some of the translated pieces have considerably more detailed comparisons. Dig deeper my friend

 
I'm not too concerned with the differences between the micro and hugo. I originally wanted a Hugo but still too expensive; ordered a micro instead.
 
Posted the link since others kept saying comparisons were out there but they rarely posted any links.

 

[maricius]

I'm not too concerned with the differences between the micro and hugo. I originally wanted a Hugo but still too expensive; ordered a micro instead.

Posted the link since others kept saying comparisons were out there but they rarely posted any links.

Cheers

 

[gr8soundz]

Just a thought, but I wonder how many would choose the Hugo over the Micro if both were the same $500 price?
 
We assume the Hugo must be better due the 5x higher price (it better be) but would we go for the Hugo's bluetooth and custom, process everything DSP or would we instead choose the Micro's mininal DSP and quad/octa DSD?