iFi iDSD Micro DSD512 / PCM768 DAC and Headphone Amp. Impressions, Reviews and Comments.
Aug 18, 2015 at 12:08 AM Post #4,366 of 9,047
I need a portable amp to drive a pair of HE560s (I need the portability because I have two little kids so it's impossible to set up a desktop system and sit in one place to listen, I have to move to wherever it's quiet in the house). I'm looking very closely at the iFi iDSD Micro and the Centrance HiFi-M8. I've been searching through the threads here and found a few people using the HiFi-M8 with various different levels of happiness, but no one seemed totally thrilled with it, and a posts from people using the iDSD that seemed pretty happy. But I haven't really found any great comparisons between iDSD and HiFi-M8 here or searching on Google. Has anyone who used both compare the sound? Or maybe point me at a comparison I couldn't find? Any significant pros or cons I should be aware of?


I only have the Gloveaudio A1 from entrance and used to have the Dacmini CX - I have yet to come across any product from Centrance that disappoints, they do sound very good and the M8 has the benefit of allowing you to use balanced cables.

However, I love my IDSD micro - such a versatile and powerful portable device, it's the best portable amp I have heard with the HE-560.

Hope that helps a little before others with a direct comparison can pitch in.

Cheers,
K
 
Aug 18, 2015 at 1:17 AM Post #4,367 of 9,047
I should have clarified that I was ABing with the micro-idac2 because the USB cable that came with mine was DOA so I had to go out and buy another one. The outer rubber sheath on my blue USB 3.0 cable became detached from the strain relief at one end, and therefore probably isn't going to last that long. I can't comment on the electrical properties of that cable, but mechanically it's not that great.

 
The very same thing happened to my blue cable after two days of use.
 
Aug 18, 2015 at 11:15 AM Post #4,368 of 9,047
  I need a portable amp to drive a pair of HE560s (I need the portability because I have two little kids so it's impossible to set up a desktop system and sit in one place to listen, I have to move to wherever it's quiet in the house). I'm looking very closely at the iFi iDSD Micro and the Centrance HiFi-M8. I've been searching through the threads here and found a few people using the HiFi-M8 with various different levels of happiness, but no one seemed totally thrilled with it, and a posts from people using the iDSD that seemed pretty happy. But I haven't really found any great comparisons between iDSD and HiFi-M8 here or searching on Google. Has anyone who used both compare the sound? Or maybe point me at a comparison I couldn't find? Any significant pros or cons I should be aware of?

 
I looked carefully at the HiFi-M8 and other DAC/amps before settling on the micro iDSD. I listened to the M8 with a few different "harder to drive" phones that they had at my local store (possibly including the HE-560, though it was a while ago and I can't remember for sure) and it performed quite well. If you want a balanced XLR/Kobiconn output and/or think the treble/bass shaping controls will be of use to you, then the M8 might be worth considering. Otherwise, with a price differential of $200, the iFi is much better value IMO. It also supports DSD to sampling rates out the wazoo (I'm still playing around with this format, trying to decide if there are any intrinsic differences).
 
The analog filters in DSD mode on the iFi make significant changes in the sound, whereas the digital PCM filters are almost indiscernable to my ears. But the iFi has them, and the CEntrance doesn't. The XBass on the iFi only very subtly boosts extreme sub-bass (below 50Hz), and many find it makes no difference to what they hear, so the M8's bass boost might be more useful in this regard. I don't use the 3D Holographic feature as it doesn't sound realistic to me, but it's very mix-dependent and many in this thread have said they use it to varying degrees.
 
I think both the M8 and the micro iDSD will sound very good with your HE-560s from a pure DAC/amp performance perspective. But the form factor is something you may want to consider in your decision. If you're going to stack it with your phone, compare the dimensions. The M8 has slightly protruding ridges along its edges, which may not give a good fit with your phone or whatever portable source you're going to use. This is how I stack my Note 3 on top of the micro iDSD with 3M SJ4570 low profile dual lock tape and phone cover (I guess I could have just as easily done the same with the M8):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/728236/ifi-idsd-micro-dsd512-pcm768-dac-and-headphone-amp-impressions-reviews-and-comments/4005#post_11708695
 
If you can't get to a retailer to hear them, you could order both from retailers with a trial/return policy, compare them, then return the one you don't want. My recommendation is the micro iDSD as it's better value, super flexible for all manner of usage situations and formats, possibly stacks better, and sounds great!
 
Aug 18, 2015 at 6:29 PM Post #4,369 of 9,047
Hey guys,
 
Is there any central "guide" to the iDSD?
 
- I'm on the latest driver and firmware.
- USB Streaming Mode is set to "Minimum Latency"
- "Default Format" in windows "Speakers Properties" is set to max
 
=> The LED is now Yellow.
 
I mainly play FLAC files with mpd.exe, using winmm (Windows multimedia API) as ALSA and ASIO don't work with MPD on windows.
 
Should I do something else? Should I use a different player that has ALSA or ASIO?
How do I play those DSD files? What is this "Digital Filter" setting?
 
 
It would be cool if there was a flowchart that started with the type of file you want to play and pointed out the best possible configuration...
 
 
I'm in over my head with this one D:
 
Aug 18, 2015 at 6:39 PM Post #4,370 of 9,047
  Hey guys,
 
Is there any central "guide" to the iDSD?
 
- I'm on the latest driver and firmware.
- USB Streaming Mode is set to "Minimum Latency"
- "Default Format" in windows "Speakers Properties" is set to max
 
=> The LED is now Yellow.
 
I mainly play FLAC files with mpd.exe, using winmm (Windows multimedia API) as ALSA and ASIO don't work with MPD on windows.
 
Should I do something else? Should I use a different player that has ALSA or ASIO?
How do I play those DSD files? What is this "Digital Filter" setting?
 
 
It would be cool if there was a flowchart that started with the type of file you want to play and pointed out the best possible configuration...
 
 
I'm in over my head with this one D:

 
I like to know too. The iFi pdf manual on the net doesn't give any information on the settings other than the very basic description of them.
 
Aug 19, 2015 at 12:10 AM Post #4,371 of 9,047
 
  Hey guys,
 
Is there any central "guide" to the iDSD?
 
- I'm on the latest driver and firmware.
- USB Streaming Mode is set to "Minimum Latency"
- "Default Format" in windows "Speakers Properties" is set to max
 
=> The LED is now Yellow.
 
I mainly play FLAC files with mpd.exe, using winmm (Windows multimedia API) as ALSA and ASIO don't work with MPD on windows.
 
Should I do something else? Should I use a different player that has ALSA or ASIO?
How do I play those DSD files? What is this "Digital Filter" setting?
 
 
It would be cool if there was a flowchart that started with the type of file you want to play and pointed out the best possible configuration...
 
 
I'm in over my head with this one D:

 
I like to know too. The iFi pdf manual on the net doesn't give any information on the settings other than the very basic description of them.

 
Totally understandable. Most on this thread have read through all 292 pages, plus the original iDSD micro Crowd-Designed! thread. I would recommend you look there for detailed explanations of design and features. The first post has links to all of iFi's posts scattered throughout the thread.
 
As for a how-to tutorial on using your micro iDSD, it's a complicated thing, as the combinations and permutations are very numerous. Best thing is to Search This Thread with keywords pertaining to your setup. Do some homework before posting a question that's already been answered numerous times. You'll get better answers and have a better understanding of the device.
 
Now, you're reading this wondering, "Why should I have to put so much work into figuring out how to use this thing I just paid a significant amount of $ for?" Well, our hobby is somewhat niche, and the usage models aren't well defined. Compatibility between devices is not anywhere near guaraanteed (except for crApple approved products). Manufactureres are often small companies that don't have the resources to provide all the slick documentation we're used to getting with consumer products. But they try harder and are more willing to interact directly with their customers. So a bit (sometimes a lot) more effort is required by the user to figure out how to use the device. But in my experience, the effort is more than worth it for the results I've obtained.
 
Do a bit more searching in this thread. Everything you want to know has more than likely already been discussed, but it's scattered amongst 4000+ posts. People will be more than willing to help you clarify something you're not sure about, or provide assistance on some detailed aspect you're unfamiliar with.
 
Aug 19, 2015 at 2:43 AM Post #4,372 of 9,047
 What is this "Digital Filter" setting?  

 
As far as I could tell from reading hours of reviews & thread.
 
http://www.technoheadphone.com/amplifier-dac/ifi-audio-micro-idsd-features/7/
"The Standard filter – does as its name suggests and it “measures the best.”
The Minimum Phase (MP) filter – greatly reduces the unwanted pre and post-ringing of the digital signal and produces a more natural sound. This is the “Super” digital filter for most high-end DACs.
The Bit-Perfect filter – as Jose Mourinho coined, is the “Special One.” It originated in the CD-77 (where we called it Digital Master mode), then on the DP-777 (Bit-Perfect mode).  This is the mode that gives the most organic sound."
 
So Bit-Perfect is perfect(?) and gives the best option. I have it set to that & haven't changed it.
O.k., read up a little more.
It affects the quality of the PCM.
 
I also read up on how to play DSD & several guides start out by flat out saying to NOT DO IT as it is so complicated!
 
Aug 19, 2015 at 5:49 AM Post #4,373 of 9,047
If you can life with the typical treble roll-off on Bit-Perfect go for it (this is normal btw.), if not Minimum Phase is your friend for PCM. On DSD it is another story.
 
Aug 19, 2015 at 6:14 AM Post #4,374 of 9,047
 
 What is this "Digital Filter" setting?  

 
As far as I could tell from reading hours of reviews & thread.
 
http://www.technoheadphone.com/amplifier-dac/ifi-audio-micro-idsd-features/7/
"The Standard filter – does as its name suggests and it “measures the best.”
The Minimum Phase (MP) filter – greatly reduces the unwanted pre and post-ringing of the digital signal and produces a more natural sound. This is the “Super” digital filter for most high-end DACs.
The Bit-Perfect filter – as Jose Mourinho coined, is the “Special One.” It originated in the CD-77 (where we called it Digital Master mode), then on the DP-777 (Bit-Perfect mode).  This is the mode that gives the most organic sound."
 
So Bit-Perfect is perfect(?) and gives the best option. I have it set to that & haven't changed it.
O.k., read up a little more.
It affects the quality of the PCM.
 
I also read up on how to play DSD & several guides start out by flat out saying to NOT DO IT as it is so complicated!

 
ClieOS's excellent review has a good explanation of the filters in PCM mode.
 
Quote: http://www.head-fi.org/products/ifi-audio-micro-idsd/reviews/13009
   
SpectrumiDSD.png

The Three PCM filters @ 16/44.1
 
Another user selectable option on the micro iDSD that will affect SQ is the filter selection. Filter is needed because the DAC’s sampling process will produce high frequency noise above the audible range. Even though it is mainly on the inaudible range, its effect will still reach under 20kHz and therefore we need filter to cut them off. With PCM decoding, the filter switch changes between three different digital filters setting: Standard, Minimum Phase and Bit Perfect. Standard filter is also known as ‘fast roll-off’ sometime, which has a shaper cut –off frequency, offer a flatter FR curve and nicer measurement. But it is often also regarded as being harsher and grainier sounding. Minimum Phase is what known as ‘slow roll-off’ by some, and usually offer a smoother sound but comes with a slight -3dB roll off between 14kHz to 20kHz. It is probably one of the most common filter found on higher end DAC because it is regarded as the best compromise between measurement and human perception. Bit Perfect on the other hand is actually not a filter at all. It is more commonly known as Non-OverSampling, or NOS for short. As the name implies, it is where the DAC doesn’t oversample the signal and doesn’t use any digital filter. The resulted FR curve has a rather big -3dB roll-off going from upper midrange all the way to 20kHz. NOS is in itself too complex a topic for us to cover here - but the basic idea is not to oversample the signal as would be done on normal DAC. Instead, the sampling is carried out where the focus is to restore the musicality back to the signal rather than to achieve the highest accuracy on frequency response. The result is often being described as a sound that is more analog and natural, though doesn’t measure nearly as good as the other two filters and can sound slightly hissy with sensitive headphone due to the lack of filter. To put it short, you can think of the three filters as going from what measured best to what perceived best. With DSD decoding, the same filter switch change to three analog filter selection: Standard, Extended, and Extreme. Due to its 1 bit nature, DSD can’t employ any digital filter (which we will discuss further in the next section on native decoding). Therefore it can only use analog filter after the decoding. The three settings are mainly to determine where to set the cut-off point along the frequency response. Last but not least, DXD only gets one setting and it is Bit Perfect / NOS, therefore it doesn’t matter which position the switch is in. So, you might start to wonder which filter sounds best? Well, the whole point of having a filter selection is so that you can find out the answer for yourself. It isn’t about right or wrong but about your own preference. However, for the purpose of the review, I have used the Standard filter for most of the measurement as well as majority of the subjective listening. Of course, this doesn’t actually mean I prefer the Standard filter more.

 
On the official micro iDSD site, you can click on FAQ and get to this page which has some useful info:
 
Quote: http://support.ifi-audio.com/kb/faq.php?cid=20
Frequently Asked Questions All Categories » iDSD - (micro)
 
Filters on the iDSD Micro
Here are the links to the filters:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-iclub-video-announcement-page-127/1050#post_10662147
http://www.head-fi.org/t/711217/idsd-micro-crowd-designed-phase-2-iclub-video-announcement-page-127/615#post_10591026

 
Personally, I find the filter settings have almost no effect playing PCM. With DSD, the 3 settings have an easily discernable effect on mainly the upper mids to highs.
 

Regarding DSD playback, native DSD playback with JRiver Media Center is pretty much a no brainer. But it costs money.
 
On the iFi "blog", there's a page that asks you to open a support ticket in order to get native DSD playback instructions with foobar2000.
http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/foobar-2000-asio-for-native-dsd-playback-instructions-pdf/
 
They want you to do the same for conversion from mp3-to-DSD using either JRMC or foobar2k.
http://ifi-audio.com/audio_blog/nanomicro-idsd-tutorial-lossy-file-mp3-transfer-to-dsd256512/
You can find the JRMC version easily if you search for "converting-MP3-to-DSD256-512-JRiver-MediaCenter.pdf"
 
Not sure why they want you to do jump through the support ticket hoop. Maybe because it can be a bit tricky, and they just don't want to throw the instructions out into the wild. It's not that hard, though I had to take a few tries at it on one particularly PC, reinstalling the iFi driver and foobar2k each time. But if you follow the instructions to the letter and don't install any other SACD components, it works fine. I don't have upload privileges, but I do have all three iFi instructional PDFs.
 
Aug 19, 2015 at 7:48 AM Post #4,375 of 9,047
Hi everyone, not sure if this is the right place to as the question, but I am having trouble playing back DSD256 files on my J-River.  I have installed the ASIO for All thing... DSD128 plays fine, but DSD256 keeps buffing and breaking off... has anyone encountered this issue? Any advice or pointing to the right direction will be most valued. 
 
Aug 19, 2015 at 9:04 AM Post #4,376 of 9,047
Hi everyone, not sure if this is the right place to as the question, but I am having trouble playing back DSD256 files on my J-River.  I have installed the ASIO for All thing... DSD128 plays fine, but DSD256 keeps buffing and breaking off... has anyone encountered this issue? Any advice or pointing to the right direction will be most valued. 


Did you mess with the iFi Audio USB Driver settings?

Did you perhaps set the USB mode to 'Minimum Latency' instead of the default 'Safe'?

This will likely be the cause.

If not, set the ASIO Buffer size to 8192 samples.

If that wasn't it, look for other buffer settings in J River and increase them.

Are you using a cheap and nasty USB cable? That won't help at the higher sample rates.

Is your PC very busy doing other stuff besides playing music?
 
Aug 19, 2015 at 2:35 PM Post #4,377 of 9,047
   
  Regarding DSD playback, native DSD playback with JRiver Media Center is pretty much a no brainer. But it costs money.

 

So is it safe to say that the paid version of JRiver Media Center is a one click solution. a.k.a. no extra downloading, configuring or such?

Just open any .flac or .ape file that are encoded in DSD & it will play?
 
Aug 19, 2015 at 3:55 PM Post #4,378 of 9,047

Flavours of Firmware 5.0 for DSD256

Vanilla, Strawberry or Choc Chip?
 
 

 
The DSD DoP Revolution – iFi Firmware v5.0 ushers in a new era
At iFi, when we say we develop our software in-house, we really mean it. This time, with Firmware version 5.0 (and its sub-versions) we have gone above and beyond because:
 
1) Firmware v5.0 ‘Vanilla’ optimises DSD via DoP to give it equal performance; freedom from clicks and sound quality on par with native DSD (which was up to now, only available on Windows). While the 30% data overhead of DoP is retained, special code optimisation in the iFi firmware brings it level with ASIO native. Sonically, both protocols are now equally good.
 
2) Special sub-version firmware v5.0A ‘Strawberry’ that enables DSD256 via DoP (on nano iDSD and micro iDAC2 ONLY). Supports DSD256 on all major computer platforms including Smartphones and Streamers as well as computing platforms like Windows, OSX and Linux.
 
3) Additional Sub-version firmware 5.0B ‘Choc Chip’ (for micro iDSD only) to disable sleep mode for Android and similar devices. Thus prevents the micro iDSD from drawing charge from recent generation Android Phones/Tablets/Phablets. Also prevents any click/pop generated by the micro iDSD’s entering sleep mode.
 
For detailed instructions and the download files, please follow this link:
http://ifi-audio.com/downloads/
 
Happy Easter!
wink_face.gif

 
 
 
 
 
1Background. The DSD DoP Evolution
DoP DSD is known for inherently creating noise when switching between PCM and DSD-DoP tracks and back. This problem has been addressed at the source by some but not all playback software - hence, much available software when playing DSD, struggles. So we at iFi have taken it upon ourselves to think ‘outside of the (PC) box’ to resolve this upstream issue at the downstream firmware level for all our DSD capable devices. In a process that took over a year, we have resolved the many areas where the differences between DSD-DoP and PCM make switching an annoyance.
 
Additionally, DoP is often cited as offering a lower sound quality. By adjusting core code and the clocking system in the firmware, this point is now moot – as we eliminated the hit on processor utilisation by DoP vs. native DSD playback. So choose native DSD or DoP-DSD with the confidence that either will deliver the same great DSD sound quality and user experience. Just like DSD and PCM, we like one as much as the other.

 
iFi audio Stay updated on iFi audio at their sponsor profile on Head-Fi.
 
https://www.facebook.com/people/IFi-audio/61558986775162/ https://twitter.com/ifiaudio https://www.instagram.com/ifiaudio/ https://ifi-audio.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@iFiaudiochannel comms@ifi-audio.com
Aug 19, 2015 at 6:14 PM Post #4,380 of 9,047
For Mac users: If you flash using the .dmg and would like to confirm the version after. Go to 'About This Mac' under the Apple menu icon > click System Report > Click USB. In the list you should see: iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio: and Version: 5.00.    
 

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