[cbl117]

Yes, my bad, when you said DAP as a source I was thinking DAC function as well, when really I shouldn't have. Yes, no DAC, but if you have a DAP with a solid DAC section, prioritizing the amplifier isn't a bad idea as a good amp such as this one would give you plenty of flexibility. Other than that, the Micro still remains competitive and a great sounding, transportable all in one solution. Have you used a Micro and are looking to upgrade, or just trying to go right for the best iFi product you can get?

As for which approach is better, really no answer to that as it is all about sound signature preferences. Even basic DACs these days when properly implemented sound great, and if the tuning of the DAC is similar, most DACs I suspect would sound very, very similar to users, and the same can be said for properly implemented amp designs; it is all about the signature preference once the technical designs are solid.

I've been using an AK100ii ->. Toslink -> iDSD Micro. It sounds good but doesn't compare to my desktop setup in my office. So I'm wondering if there is a way to get better sound when I'm in other areas of the house. First world problems..

 

[technobear]

I've been using an AK100ii ->. Toslink -> iDSD Micro. It sounds good but doesn't compare to my desktop setup in my office. So I'm wondering if there is a way to get better sound when I'm in other areas of the house. First world problems..

Better sound usually requires full class A operation and that is not compatible with long battery life unless the device is designed only to drive very sensitive IEMs which require very little power.

 

[WindyCityCy]

   
Hi,
 
In default setting (factory) the Genelec Monitors will produce 100dB/1m with 0.39V input (-6dBU). In other words, these monitors have very high input sensitivity and will require less than 0.39V to produce maximum rated output (96dB/1m). 
 
The studio standard is normally -14....-20dBFS = +6dBU or around 3.9V = 0dB. So this is a HUGE mismatch with any sensible source, even an iPhone will overload these speakers easily (never mind the micro iDSD).
 
In Eco mode the iDSD micro will produce > 2V output with the volume control maxed out and a 0dB signal, this would produce in theory 114dB, where normal listening levels are commonly at 85dB average and 105dB peak for 0dBSF. 
 
In practice it will overload the speaker severely with the volume at max. and it results in magnifying a fairly minor click when the DAC goes into standby.
 
Using Normal or Turbo mode boosts the preamp output gain another 9dB and produces around 5.5V (normal mode) output, WAY too much for the Genelec 8010, though appropriate for any gear following traditional studio standards. 
 
The Genelec 8010 can be switched to lower sensitivity, using the -10dB switch. This will give a better volume control range in Eco mode and significantly reduce the loudness of the click. 
 
Even better choice and match between DAC and active monitor may be to use an external 20dB attenuator between iDSD micro and Monitor and normal mode for both items. This way 3.9V will produce 100dB. 
 
Alternatively, as others have suggested Software version 5.XB will disable sleep mode and do away with the click. In stationary, 'always on' use in Eco or Normal mode sleep mode is not necessary, as long as the iDSD micro is occasionally turned off and allowed to top up the battery to full.
 
We hope we haven't data overloaded anyone who reads this! 

Thank you for this explanation.  I'm wondering if this product would provide the external attenuation between the iDSD micro and the Genelecs (if so, the mute button and the variable settings both seem like useful features).  Can someone (maybe iFi) comment?
 
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1166537-REG/palmer_pmonicon_passive_monitor_controller.html

 

[technobear]

I'm wondering if this product would provide the external attenuation between the iDSD micro and the Genelecs (if so, the mute button and the variable settings both seem like useful features).  Can someone (maybe iFi) comment?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1166537-REG/palmer_pmonicon_passive_monitor_controller.html

Something like this is all you need:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rothwell-RCA-In-Line-Attenuators-20db/dp/B00JUXUQXO

 

[Sonic Defender]

I've been using an AK100ii ->. Toslink -> iDSD Micro. It sounds good but doesn't compare to my desktop setup in my office. So I'm wondering if there is a way to get better sound when I'm in other areas of the house. First world problems..

First world problems indeed. So what aspects of the sound seem to suffer as compared with your home setup? I would still suggest it is mostly sound signature differences as opposed to technical deficiencies at play. The AK should be a perfectly capable source and the Micro is a solid little device. I have only heard the WA22 once at a headphone meet so I am only guessing, but it should have a fairly tube like euphoric sound. If that is the case, and you really enjoy that sound I could see why a SS based system might not produce that same magic you are used to. Nice rigs you have by the way, what are the monitors you list? I also use dual subs with monitors for my speaker rig.

 

[WindyCityCy]

Something like this is all you need:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rothwell-RCA-In-Line-Attenuators-20db/dp/B00JUXUQXO

I'm still interested in if the product I linked would be a good option (especially since it provides the ability to mute the speakers while listening to headphone).  However, this rothwell in-line attenuator looks promising.  I went to their website and it looks like they have this product that is intended to connect to the input socket of amps (so this would connect to the active speakers and not the iFi Micro I believe).  They make a separate attenuator for connecting to the output of source components (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rothwell-Line-Attenuators-20dB-Source/dp/B01ED429UW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_23_4?ie=UTF8&dpID=41ZN6Pe7erL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=74ETHHZTPCC7760Z483H).  I'm thinking that the product I linked would be to right way to go.  Is this correct?

 

[Korabeu]

Greetings everyone,
 
first of all I must confess I am completely new to this perspective on listening one's favorite music.
Some call it a hobby but I somehow feel but it could mean more than that to some. 

 
Not wanting to bore you with the details of my recent (pseudo-relatively documented) interest in this fascinating matter,  I feel I should also add that
the decision of buying an iFi iDSD Micro + Sennheiser HD650 a few days ago is also owed to this very website and the extensive volume of information shared here.
That being said, I would like to thank everyone here for their contribution and input, it's been a very educational process and it continues to be so. 
 
Part of that process is the following noob question, for which I apologize in advance:
 
- I have my desktop computer under my desk, on the left side, and the Micro sitting on the desk, on the right side of the display
- the Micro is connected to an USB2.0 port located on mainboard's back panel
- the USB cable length is 1m and it doesn't seem to be quite enough for me to reach it comfortably with my right hand, as the cable is too short
- the display has an integrated USB hub that is also connected to the mainboard and itself powers & operates various other devices, like the mouse & keyboard for example
- connecting the Micro to the display's USB ports would solve my USB cable length problem
 
Since I really don't wish to change the operation to the left hand side, could I connect the Micro to the display's USB hub
and maintain the same level of audio quality, or would there be any loss?
Or in short: does it matter which USB port is Micro connected to, be it situated directly on the mainboard or not? 
 
This may be a dumb question but I have no other, yet, as everything seems to be running fine and is new, fun, interesting & intriguing  to say the least.
 
 
Thank you for your help,

 

[Sonic Defender]

@Korabeu you can indeed try that USB port and it should be no different at all (unless there was some kind of fault with the unit). I have a laptop cooling pad with 4 USB ports on it and I have on a few occasions attached the Micro to one of them and noticed no ill effect. The HD 650 must sound nice with the Micro.

 

[jgwtriode]

  Greetings everyone,
 
first of all I must confess I am completely new to this perspective on listening one's favorite music.
Some call it a hobby but I somehow feel but it could mean more than that to some. 

 
Not wanting to bore you with the details of my recent (pseudo-relatively documented) interest in this fascinating matter,  I feel I should also add that
the decision of buying an iFi iDSD Micro + Sennheiser HD650 a few days ago is owed to this very website and the extensive volume of information shared here.
That being said, I would like to thank everyone here for their contribution and input, it's been a very educational process and it continues to be so. 
 
Part of that process is the following noob question, for which I apologize in advance:
 
- I have my desktop computer under my desk, on the left side, and the Micro sitting on the desk, on the right side of the display
- the Micro is connected to an USB2.0 port located on mainboard's back panel
- the USB cable length is 1m and it doesn't seem to be quite enough for me to reach it comfortably with my right hand, as the cable is too short
- the display has an integrated USB hub that is also connected to the mainboard and itself powers & operates various other devices, like the mouse & keyboard for example
- connecting the Micro to the display's USB ports would solve my USB cable length problem
 
Since I really don't wish to change the operation to the left hand side, could I connect the Micro to the display's USB hub
and maintain the same level of audio quality, or would there be any loss?
Or in short: does it matter which USB port is Micro connected to, be it situated directly on the mainboard or not? 
 
This may be a dumb question but I have no other, yet, as everything seems to be running fine and is new, fun, interesting & intriguing  to say the least.
 
 
Thank you for your help,

You mention that the port is directly connected to the motherboard??  If that is the case no difference I would imagine.  If however it is connected through additional cable from the mobo than
that will color the sound.  It may or may not be noticeable.  Depends on your perception and also the level of resolution of your associated equipment.  The IDSD is quite resolving so there could
be a difference in that case.  I can assure that all kinds of things that people debate on this and other sites can make differences.  I will point out a recent one that suprised me I built a 4 inch adaptor/cable to improve the sound over my hard adapter between my reclocking device and my IDSD micro. Used 7/9's silver and basic usb connectors and very good silver solder.  Wow!  Now one step further. Made another in a boutique quality USB male into reclocker and a regular female cable usb connector...can't find a boutique one of these.  The data wire is Silver/gold from same manufacturer and the power and gnd are same silver.  Both in a better quality teflon.  Still 4" I much more completely seperated data and power runs...forming a oval loop.  Data above...power and ground below.  Data in a twisted pair config.  Power and ground completely seperated and spaced away...ala bottom of said oval connection.   Extreme...yes.  Difference oh yes immediately even after only a couple hours of break in.  Noticeably less hardening in upper mids and highs...tighter bass...better soundstage focus...with a better sense of layering within
the soundstage and at the boundary edges.  Oh and the bass was noticeably tighter.  But the real bottom line which is how I evaluate a change for the better.  More Pace Rhythmn and Timing.
PRAT...more involving.  Just more of a sense of energy and flow.  Believe it or not. Were only talking 4" of cable here.  The difference was at least as big a change as switching the first one I mention for the hard adaptor.  In both cases the differences were larger than I anticipated...even with my jadded, persnickety nutso audiophile background.
 
There are a number of these things I have found out as I have read and fiddled and pursued this hobby.  Honestly just about everything that can possibly affect the sound more than likely may.
 
In the immortal words of Buckaroo Bonzai. "Whereever you go, there you are!"
 
FWIW
 
Happy Listening,
jgwtriode

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

I don't think USB Hub should make any difference to the sound, but if possible, a re-clocker and noise filter will make an audible change.

 

[DarktoreS]

 
My final combo, Micro IDSD + Itube + iCan SE + iRack with my ATH R70x is realy perfect ! 

 

[jgwtriode]

 
 
My final combo, Micro IDSD + Itube + iCan SE + iRack with my ATH R70x is realy perfect ! 

Very  nice looking setup congrats...they do look amazing together in that rack!
 
Happy Listening,
jgwtriode

 

[CFGamescape]

 
 
My final combo, Micro IDSD + Itube + iCan SE + iRack with my ATH R70x is realy perfect ! 

Nice! How do you like the iTube with the iCAN SE? I have everything you have but the iTube.

 

[Sonic Defender]

I am at a loss to figure out if the iTube can be used with the Micro to introduce some tube goodness into the sound signature for when I want that.

 

[DarktoreS]

  Nice! How do you like the iTube with the iCAN SE? I have everything you have but the iTube.

 
 
The iTube strengthens the iCan SE, I would almost say that the IDSD is good enough to spend iCan. The soundstage is denser and better mastered in high frequencies with the iTube. I have long compared the IDSD vs IDSD + iCan, then the IDSD vs iTube + iCan.  I think this puts performance at the highest level. But I could content myself with the IDSD only, it is only because I have found very affordable opportunity that I bought the iCan + iTube. The iRack being almost essential once left my madness for this set iFi-Audio ...