[Triodemode]

 
Hmmm - it sounds like you've described a perfect follow up product for iFi to work on...
 
iFi was clearly trying to make the Micro iDSD as accessible to as many types of users as possible. Fortunately, as you say, it does partner extremely nicely as a standalone DAC feeding into better quality amps if that's what you are looking for. I've tried it together with the iCAN+iTube, NOS tube amps and the Clones Audio amps and I can't imagine ever needing to pay more for a better sounding DAC for my purposes.

I agree...  The iFi stack would give even the best dacs, headphone amps and power conditioners a run for their money.

 

[iFi audio]

   
One of the best kept secrets in HT setups (to get a decent stereo audio from HT) is to get an AVR with pre-outs and a good 2ch power amp to drive L/R speakers then put iTube between AVR and power amp. I do this with an Onkyo 818 and Rotel 1552 Mk2 and the result is amazing. It sounds like you are listening to a $$$$$ gear.

 
Hi,
 
You hit the nail on the head. To ameliorate the typical A/V solid-state sound (like you get at the cinema nowadays, doesnt matter if you are in the UK/USA or elsewhere).
 
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/av-home-entertainment/
 
This is the connection diagram:
 

For us, in this setup, the 6dB gain helps even more.

 

[earfonia]

  The reason your setup sounds so remarkable is due to you listening through the iCAN and not the iDSD's built in headphone amp...  The iDSD headphone section uses a chip that has been on the market for 10 years.  Trying to make comparisons between this and the Ray Samuels Raptor tube amplifier is IMO ridiculous.
 
It has been well established that to fully exploit the sonic attributes of the iDSD DAC section, an exteranl amplifier needs to be used.  There are several other portable headphone amplifiers that utilize class A topology with excellent results.  My feeling is that instead of having a power level swith (eco-normal-turbo), it would have been more sonically advantageuos to utilize discrete components in the headphone amp, and have this switch change between class A and A/B operation, this would give the option (with more sensitive headphones and IEMs in Class A) to better convey more of the excellent DAC's sound when using the unit as a single box solution.
 
I would happily forgo output power/battery life and exclude a few power hungry headphones, to have a better sonically matched DAC and headphone section when using the iDSD micro as a one box portable. Does anybody even need to utiizle turbo mode?  My power hungry Beyerdynamic 600 ohm DT880's get plenty loud in normal mode. Am I the only one who holds this opinion?
 
Again, even in it's current configuration as a one box solution the iDSD is without peer however, I think the headphone amplifier could could have been better implemented to sonically match the DAC.

 
TPA6120 is still newer than the tubes technology used in Ray Samuels Raptor tube. So I believe it is not about older or newer, but simply the sound quality. I don't believe newer chip will always sounds better.
 
I do agree with you that the Turbo mode is not very useful, I don't mind to exchange the turbo feature for better sound quality, lower power headphone amplifier. Even a 0.5 watt headphone amplifier with better sound quality is much better than a lean sounding 4 watt amplifier. After using for more than 3 months with various headphones and IEMs, I do feel that the headphone output quality is not on par with the sound quality of the DAC section. The micro iDSD headphone output is rather lean sounding, lacking of tonal density. When connecting micro iCan to micro iDSD output, I can hear significant improvement of the sound quality. I don't mind to pay more if ifi can improve the sound quality of the iDSD headphone output, to match the sound quality of micro iCan. At least we can have one superb quality one box solution.

 

[EVOLVIST]

  A quick update.  I've been listening to my iCan micro in my iFi stack for a couple of days now, and the increase in soundstage and sonic detail is remarkable.  I eventually need to get some audio analysis software to support my observations.  I'm done writing tonight between work, eBay and this board, so I'm keeping this short and I'll see if I have permission to post pics yet. 
 
 
 

 
Thanks for the cool pics! Yeah, I don't have my iDSD micro yet, but I have about 168 hours burn in with the iCAN and it's really putting up a fight against my SPL Auditor headphone amp, which is what...at least $600 pricier for the SPL? To me the Auditor is the best SS amp on the planet. My problem, therefore, has become, do I loose a little width and naturalness by selling my Auditor over the iCAN, or do I keep the iCAN, with a tad bit narrower soundstage, yet with the details a little more intimate.
 
It's difficult to explain what you hear; still, we're talking a class act piece of gear with the iCAN. Perhaps hearing it with the iDSD micro will go a long way in solving my dilemma.

 

[rickyleelee]

 
Audeze headphones for $699?!?  I bet there are a lot of people salivating for the release of the EL-8s.  I just wish that a $700 price point was affordable to me personally and not just compared to Audeze's other headphones. 

 
 
So I take it you feel the iTube is a worthwhile addition to the iFi stack even with headphones?  That's good to know.  I think I was under the (wrong) impression that the iTube is made for speakers and the iCan is made for headphones b/c the 3DHS in the iTube is tailored for modifying speakers, whereas the 3DHS in the iCan is tailored for headphones.  I like ClieOS's analogy (in Head Gear) that adding the iTube is "like going from HD to SD signal". 

 
I've tried a lot of tube amps and they all the good ones add a harmonic "richness" that is nice but sometimes overcooked and it becomes too rose tinted. Certainly not a bad thing but not wanting to hi-jack this thread, the itube adds a harmonic "rightness" which makes it a little different and more preferrable in my book. But if you want colouration, this will disappoint.
When I go out, I just take the micro idsd but when I get home, i dock in into the big rig. Of all the devices, I found the iusb power as having the least impact on the sonics. I much recommend spending the hard earned on the itube / ican. This is for the micro idsd comb and is just my 2 cents. Just try it for yourself and report the results. Yes, the EL-8 looks nice. My question is how much of the audeze sound does it retain? If it does 80%, then $699 is not too bad. I just have to spend less on my camera gear. Or hide it from the wife better.

 

[Triodemode]

   
Err, before we go too far, you should know that the same chip is used in both iCAN and iDSD headphone output stage. 10 years is really nothing as new chip is usually slow to be adopted by the industry. Some opamp, like OPA627, easy double the time and yet still well regarded among user and manufacturer. In fact, the DSD1793 in iDSD is well over 10 years too. At the end of the day, it is more about the implementation (and its limitation no less) than everything else.

I did notice that the DSD1793 data sheet was dated 2006 and agree that some chips such as the expensive Analog Devices OPA627 op amp you mentioned do have quite a following, and rightfully so.  I am surprised however to see the 6120a2 headphone driver that I wa referring to in the iCAN and iDSD, as it is used in many computer sound cards and less expensive headphone amps.  And even though this IC specs really well and is refrenced quite a bit in the DIY community, I have not seen them used in very many in high end headphone amplifiers. 
 
Being a purist, I have almost always experienced higher fidelity and more musicality in properly designed class A amplifiers where disceet components are used exclusively.  I do agree that how a specific IC is implemented (particularly  a DAC) plays a key role in it's sound and often compromises need to occur.  My only frustration was in hoping that somehow the iDSD's heaphone section could have been constructed to convey ALL of the DAC's fantastic sound without having to resort to an external amp.
 
I do apologize if I came across as being too critical.  I have said several times already that overall this is an excellent offering from the folks at iFi.

 

[rickyleelee]

  Hi all,
 
getting this device on saturday, wanted to ask has anyone used this with LCD-3...., currently i am using a adcom dac with ray samuels Raptor amplifier with lcd-3...was wondering hows the ifi idsd as an amp is...i know it is a great dac what i have heard...
 
on sme note has anyone used hqplayer with this device...
 
V

The Raptor is a fine amplifier. But seeing that it sells for more than double the cost of the idsd micro, and is a pure tube amp, you should expect different sonic pictures. Price and usage wise they are different right? tube vs solid state, desk versus portable.

Seeing that you getting the iDSD micro soon, you would be best placed to compare the internal amplifier of the iDSD micro vs. the Raptor, so you write the review for others that have the same question if they wanna do this different comp? Help us here dude.
 

 

[Triodemode]

   
TPA6120 is still newer than the tubes technology used in Ray Samuels Raptor tube. So I believe it is not about older or newer, but simply the sound quality. I don't believe newer chip will always sounds better.
 
I do agree with you that the Turbo mode is not very useful, I don't mind to exchange the turbo feature for better sound quality, lower power headphone amplifier. Even a 0.5 watt headphone amplifier with better sound quality is much better than a lean sounding 4 watt amplifier. After using for more than 3 months with various headphones and IEMs, I do feel that the headphone output quality is not on par with the sound quality of the DAC section. The micro iDSD headphone output is rather lean sounding, lacking of tonal density. When connecting micro iCan to micro iDSD output, I can hear significant improvement of the sound quality. I don't mind to pay more if ifi can improve the sound quality of the iDSD headphone output, to match the sound quality of micro iCan. At least we can have one superb quality one box solution.

As was my response to ClieOS, there are some highly regarded IC's used in high end gear that stand the test of time, though I have rarely seem the Texas Insturments 6120a2 headphone driver appear in high end heaphone amps. Usually I see them used in computer sound cards and more entry level heaphone amplifiers.
 
I completely agree with your assesment of the iDSD headphone section as it minicks my own experience as well.  It's only when I connect an external amp to the iDSD RCA outputs that I hear the full sonic beautifulness produced by that fantastic DAC section.

 

[EVOLVIST]

 
As was my response to ClieOS, there are some highly regarded IC's used in high end gear that stand the test of time, though I have rarely seem the Texas Insturments 6120a2 headphone driver appear in high end heaphone amps. Usually I see them used in computer sound cards and more entry level heaphone amplifiers.
 
I completely agree with your assesment of the iDSD headphone section as it minicks my own experience as well.  It's only when I connect an external amp to the iDSD RCA outputs that I hear the full sonic beautifulness produced by that fantastic DAC section.

 
Are you going from the unbalanced RCAs on the iDSD micro to balanced inputs on an amp, or running an all unbalanced signal?

 

[Triodemode]

   
Are you going from the unbalanced RCAs on the iDSD micro to balanced inputs on an amp, or running an all unbalanced signal?

All unbalanced...   I'm curious what brought this interesting question up?

 

[EVOLVIST]

 
All unbalanced...   I'm curious what brought this interesting question up?

 
Oh it's nothing, really. Just thinking about my own rig, and since I haven't gotten the chance to hear my iDSD micro yet, I'm trying to rectify in my head going from an unbalanced RCA output to balanced XLR inputs on my headphone amp. Some have said you need a unbalanced to balanced converter box to optimize the sound, while others claim that even a passive box is going to add some sort of coloration (which I want to avoid), so if your not getting any noise/hum from going RCA to XLR, you're golden. I would like to avoid the 6db gain on the iDSD micro if at all possible to drive my amp and cans.  So, I guess we will see. All of this is conjecture/ruminating, of course, but it falls back to whether or not I keep the iCAN or stick with my current HP amp, using the iDSD micro as a DAC, only.

 

[tf1216]

If you guys want to give your Micro iDSD a cool test with the 3D switch please try this song
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_SmNVXkzwA
 
There are three guitarists.  One takes the left channel, one the right channel, and the one an only Shawn Lane in the middle.  Works better with the CD but the YouTube video doesn't do a bad job at imaging.

 

[EVOLVIST]

Does anyone have a better ultra fast charging option for the iDSD micro other than this piece of junk Orico?
 
(No offense to the wise souls at iFi)

 

[Triodemode]

   
Oh it's nothing, really. Just thinking about my own rig, and since I haven't gotten the chance to hear my iDSD micro yet, I'm trying to rectify in my head going from an unbalanced RCA output to balanced XLR inputs on my headphone amp. Some have said you need a unbalanced to balanced converter box to optimize the sound, while others claim that even a passive box is going to add some sort of coloration (which I want to avoid), so if your not getting any noise/hum from going RCA to XLR, you're golden. I would like to avoid the 6db gain on the iDSD micro if at all possible to drive my amp and cans.  So, I guess we will see. All of this is conjecture/ruminating, of course, but it falls back to whether or not I keep the iCAN or stick with my current HP amp, using the iDSD micro as a DAC, only.

Obviously less components in the signal path is preferred.  I have connected this way in the past without noise using a short cable length (2 feet) and the 6db level increase was not an issue, though I can see your concern with headphones. Using a shielded cable tied to pin 1 of your balanced connector will hopefully mitigate any noise issues. 
 
What model balanced headphone amp are you using?

 

[earfonia]

   
Oh it's nothing, really. Just thinking about my own rig, and since I haven't gotten the chance to hear my iDSD micro yet, I'm trying to rectify in my head going from an unbalanced RCA output to balanced XLR inputs on my headphone amp. Some have said you need a unbalanced to balanced converter box to optimize the sound, while others claim that even a passive box is going to add some sort of coloration (which I want to avoid), so if your not getting any noise/hum from going RCA to XLR, you're golden. I would like to avoid the 6db gain on the iDSD micro if at all possible to drive my amp and cans.  So, I guess we will see. All of this is conjecture/ruminating, of course, but it falls back to whether or not I keep the iCAN or stick with my current HP amp, using the iDSD micro as a DAC, only.

 
You may check the following:
http://www.rane.com/note110.html
 
You can use interconnection no: 17.
 

   
I've tried a lot of tube amps and they all the good ones add a harmonic "richness" that is nice but sometimes overcooked and it becomes too rose tinted. Certainly not a bad thing but not wanting to hi-jack this thread, the itube adds a harmonic "rightness" which makes it a little different and more preferrable in my book. But if you want colouration, this will disappoint.
When I go out, I just take the micro idsd but when I get home, i dock in into the big rig. Of all the devices, I found the iusb power as having the least impact on the sonics. I much recommend spending the hard earned on the itube / ican. This is for the micro idsd comb and is just my 2 cents. Just try it for yourself and report the results. Yes, the EL-8 looks nice. My question is how much of the audeze sound does it retain? If it does 80%, then $699 is not too bad. I just have to spend less on my camera gear. Or hide it from the wife better.

 
Agree. At the price ifi micro iDSD is already a wonderful package. But because the DAC section is so good, beyond its price point, that the headphone amp section sound left behind, even actually for the price, the headphone amp is fine. I think to ask iDSD headphone amp to sound like a tube amp is not reasonable. I just wish that ifi could improve the iDSD headphone section to match the sound quality of micro iCan. Even at higher price, to have one good sounding one box solution is very useful for us, especially those who travel.
 
One of my favorite setup with micro iDSD:

 
The 500 mW @ 16 ohms, or 300 mW @ 32 ohms of AT-HA22Tube is driving my HE5-LE orthodynamic wonderfully. I hardly figure when will we ever need 4 watt headphone amplifier 

   Probably for AKG K1000 only...