[iFi audio]

Signature finally arrived and although I can’t do a direct A/B to the original, from memory, I do notice a tighter, blacker background. Bass is slightly more dynamic as I felt OG was pretty soft down low. Staging also pushes on depth behind my ears impressively with the Traillii. Love the tube with Traillii which adds smoother, warmer transients without sacrificing technicality. Not a huge fan of EVO with tube, but sounds great from SS.

Hopefully will get into HPs soon and looking forward to how it pairs with the LCD5

That's a sight to behold

Also please let us know how your LCD-5 sounds with Pro iDSD Signature!

 

[talmadge]

Cosiderigng how our products usually sound like, many people would argue with you on this, but let's agree to disagree



We'd like to keep this place civilized and friendly, so please mind your tone

We listen to everyone and we take into account all requests no matter how odd or unrealistic they are, but please understand that meeting all expectations isn't possible. As a manufacturer we pick the best routes we can to please as many our customers out there. To some our design decisions still won't be ideal or logical, which is fair, but that doesn't mean that we don't listen. Cute or not, we do



On Pro iDSD's (and its Signature version's) priority list there were things more important than bass enchancements. Those are DACs in the first place that cleverly incorporate their line drivers for headphone amplification, so bass boosters aren't mandatory for them. Pro iCAN (and its Signature version) on the other hand is a headphone amp and as such it has that feature.

As for XBass in general, we applied it in those products that could have it and remain on the same quality level. This of course doesn't mean that you have to agree with those decisions, but it is what it is. Sorry!



I hear you, but XBass in our specific products really isn't a common request considering all the feedback we've been getting.

I just bought an ICAN Signature. The XBass and tube+ were the features I really wanted along with the other upgrades of course! I had the original but sold it a few years back.

 

[srkbear]

Cosiderigng how our products usually sound like, many people would argue with you on this, but let's agree to disagree



We'd like to keep this place civilized and friendly, so please mind your tone

We listen to everyone and we take into account all requests no matter how odd or unrealistic they are, but please understand that meeting all expectations isn't possible. As a manufacturer we pick the best routes we can to please as many our customers out there. To some our design decisions still won't be ideal or logical, which is fair, but that doesn't mean that we don't listen. Cute or not, we do



On Pro iDSD's (and its Signature version's) priority list there were things more important than bass enchancements. Those are DACs in the first place that cleverly incorporate their line drivers for headphone amplification, so bass boosters aren't mandatory for them. Pro iCAN (and its Signature version) on the other hand is a headphone amp and as such it has that feature.

As for XBass in general, we applied it in those products that could have it and remain on the same quality level. This of course doesn't mean that you have to agree with those decisions, but it is what it is. Sorry!



I hear you, but XBass in our specific products really isn't a common request considering all the feedback we've been getting.

I appreciate the thoughtful response. Please be aware that my tone was informed by what I perceived as a glib, cocky response from you, finished off with a wink emoji, to a comment I posted about a missing feature that I voiced quite politely.

I’m not sure who the “we” is you’re referring to, but I’m not aware of any hierarchies on here, and I think decorum should go both ways—especially since I’m one of your customers who has dropped $8,000+ on your products to date.

Regarding your explanation, I believe that the Zen DAC, Zen DAC v2, micro iDSD in all its configurations, the Hip DAC, Hip DAC v2, and the xDSD are all DACs. And they all have bass enhancement features. They also collectively represent the least inexpensive product tiers you offer.

So it’s awfully suspect that you would say that bass enhancement isn’t a DAC thing at iFi, and that it’s not a popular request amongst your consumers—I highly doubt the latter, given that just about every review of your products out there makes a point of championing your xBass technology, and your Hip DAC has been flying off the shelves since its release. How’s the sales on those feature-free Diablos and Neo iDSDs going in comparison? Not in Asia, but here in the West?

I think it’s far more likely that you knew that your Pro iDSD Signature would be a fabulous, self-contained DAC/AMP and streamer all by itself—but you cleverly put the tone enhancements in the Pro iCAN Signature so folks will feel lacking unless they buy both. Are you honestly saying that with all the stuff you crammed into that thing that there just wasn’t any space for that tiny switch?

Again, I’ve said so many times that I’m not only a major investor in your products but I’m also a fan. And as a fan I notice when your choices seem to be either tone-deaf, opportunistic, or downright lazy. And based on the many other comments on here I don’t feel alone in this. So please be forgiving if I get a bit edgy over WANTING to give you business, but after patiently waiting to be surprised with something innovative, I keep getting let down with the same old same old with a tiny tweak and a trendy new paint job. Peace.

 

[srkbear]

I just bought an ICAN Signature. The XBass and tube+ were the features I really wanted along with the other upgrades of course! I had the original but sold it a few years back.

IFi-Audio, please make note of another audiophile here who gave you a major investment because of your xBass!

 

[iFi audio]

Please be aware that my tone was informed by what I perceived as a glib, cocky response from you, finished off with a wink emoji,

I don't think it was, but let's stop here. It's all good!

Regarding your explanation, I believe that the Zen DAC, Zen DAC v2, micro iDSD in all its configurations, the Hip DAC, Hip DAC v2, and the xDSD are all DACs. And they all have bass enhancement features. They also collectively represent the least inexpensive product tiers you offer.

This is not relevant considering how different Pro iDSD (and its Signature version) is internally in comparison to our other products.

So it’s awfully suspect that you would say that bass enhancement isn’t a DAC thing at iFi,

It really isn't when we're discussing Pro iDSD. Actually, we'd please quite a few people if it were even simpler

How’s the sales on those feature-free Diablos and Neo iDSDs going in comparison? Not in Asia, but here in the West?

We don't specify that information, sorry

I think it’s far more likely that you knew that your Pro iDSD Signature would be a fabulous, self-contained DAC/AMP and streamer all by itself—but you cleverly put the tone enhancements in the Pro iCAN Signature so folks will feel lacking unless they buy both. Are you honestly saying that with all the stuff you crammed into that thing that there just wasn’t any space for that tiny switch?

Let me once more emphasize that Pro iDSD doesn't feature a typical headphone amp but essentially its output stage used for headphone amplification. In a reference DAC product this circuit as short as possible is a common-sense designer approach that has nothing to do with being "tone-deaf, opportunistic or lazy." Of course you don't have to like or/and understand this considering your own needs, but that's the reality.

 

[srkbear]

I don't think it was, but let's stop here. It's all good!



This is not relevant considering how different Pro iDSD (and its Signature version) is internally in comparison to our other products.



It really isn't when we're discussing Pro iDSD. Actually, we'd please quite a few people if it were even simpler



We don't specify that information, sorry



Let me once more emphasize that Pro iDSD doesn't feature a typical headphone amp but essentially its output stage used for headphone amplification. In a reference DAC product this circuit as short as possible is a common-sense designer approach that has nothing to do with being "tone-deaf, opportunistic or lazy." Of course you don't have to like or/and understand this considering your own needs, but that's the reality.

Sigh. Truce. If I sound bitter it’s just because I want to give you more business, particularly in your flagship tier—but every time I’m ready to lay down the cash for the Pro Signature stack I bow out because I know I’m going to be frustrated with the lack of tone control.

It feels like in today’s market, where lossless, hi def audio has broken through niche limitations and has become accessible to anyone, you just can’t be a high-end audiophile if you want to enjoy rock, electronica, R&B or Hip Hop. All the affordable tier options have features designed to enhance these genres, but the high-end gear is rarified and flat. And the mounds of iFi gear I currently have can’t drive my extremely costly headphones.

And I’ve tried. I have gone through your Micro iDSD BL, the xDSD, the micro iDSD signature, the Hip Dac v1 and 2. I realized I wanted to go with a desktop setup, so most recently I went with a Zen Stream/Zen DAC v2/Zen CAN stack. I would have tried the Signature series but I have Focal Stellias and a HifiMan Arya, and they both sound anemic and unexciting without some bass enhancement.

And no matter what I’ve done, I can’t get these ultra-premium cans to match the Zen Stack without clipping and distorting. I bought iPower adapters for all three, your AC purifier, your Mercury 3.0 USB cable, no improvement. I have a useless ieMatch+ I can’t try because I have pentaconn connectors. I’ve placed multiple tickets on your website that have been ignored.

And so I decided to wait on your Pro iDSD refresh praying it would come with tone adjustments. Still no luck. Yes, I could spring for the Pro iDSD/CAN signature stack and get a little help from xBass, but then I learned that you still haven’t made the Pro iDSD Roon-Ready. I can enjoy Roon on any of your consumer-tier products—it works great with my Zen Stream stack. But this rig just won’t match these headphones—your own headphone calculator warns that both need ultra ieMatch to avoid excessive gain, but you don’t make a balanced ieMatch option other than the obsolete 2.5mm.

I’ve invested so much in iFi at this point that it’s hard to start over. But I hope this narrative of my journey sheds a little more light and humanity into my frustrations—I’ve spent a ton of money on premium gear that shreds my ears and offers me no joy in return. That’s why the smiley emoji and the bragging didn’t sit so well. Maybe if you could offer me some solutions to my issues here it would go a long way towards softening my tone.

 

[Gippy]

@srkbear I shared many of your sentiments about the 3D/XBass features being segmented, and that the Pro iCAN and the iTube2 are still the only products that offer variable controls; everything else is on/off. I thought paying an enormous amount for a DAC with superfluous features was pointless. The Pro iDSD has tubes and a headphone out, neither of which is needed if the signal is fed into the Pro iCAN, and possibly the Pro iESL. I'm sure there are many happy owners of the Pro iDSD, but I saved $1800 by going with another DAC, and I won't lose much sleep over it when the Pro iCAN is what really shapes the sound.

I'm just hoping that the Pro iCAN Signature comes down in price after a while and that I can directly demo it against my current Pro iCAN.

 

[alekc]

@srkbear I shared many of your sentiments about the 3D/XBass features being segmented, and that the Pro iCAN and the iTube2 are still the only products that offer variable controls; everything else is on/off. I thought paying an enormous amount for a DAC with superfluous features was pointless. The Pro iDSD has tubes and a headphone out, neither of which is needed if the signal is fed into the Pro iCAN, and possibly the Pro iESL. I'm sure there are many happy owners of the Pro iDSD, but I saved $1800 by going with another DAC, and I won't lose much sleep over it when the Pro iCAN is what really shapes the sound.

I'm just hoping that the Pro iCAN Signature comes down in price after a while and that I can directly demo it against my current Pro iCAN.

Indeed both Pro iCan and iTube2 offers ability to tweak sound signature. As for testing Pro iCan against Signature edition you can just add iPower Elite and have probably most of Signature without this ugly gold design that scares me away from it.

 

[srkbear]

@srkbear I shared many of your sentiments about the 3D/XBass features being segmented, and that the Pro iCAN and the iTube2 are still the only products that offer variable controls; everything else is on/off. I thought paying an enormous amount for a DAC with superfluous features was pointless. The Pro iDSD has tubes and a headphone out, neither of which is needed if the signal is fed into the Pro iCAN, and possibly the Pro iESL. I'm sure there are many happy owners of the Pro iDSD, but I saved $1800 by going with another DAC, and I won't lose much sleep over it when the Pro iCAN is what really shapes the sound.

I'm just hoping that the Pro iCAN Signature comes down in price after a while and that I can directly demo it against my current Pro iCAN.

Thank you. May I ask which DAC you went with?

 

[srkbear]

Indeed both Pro iCan and iTube2 offers ability to tweak sound signature. As for testing Pro iCan against Signature edition you can just add iPower Elite and have probably most of Signature without this ugly gold design that scares me away from it.

I agree about the tacky gold design—it couldn’t be more out of touch. And I’m still baffled as to why they won’t make the Pro iDSD or its Signature version Roon-Ready, or at least Roon-tested. The only iFi products Roon lists as compatible are the micro iDAC2, the micro iDSD BL, the nano iDSD BL, the nano iOne and the xDSD—and the Pro iDSDs are supposed to be streamers! I’ve gotten my Zen Stream to cooperate with Roon, but forget the Pro iDSD—despite this very site having a slew of posts requesting it for years.

Maybe I’m missing something, but it just seems that with iFi they keep pumping out product after product, even going for the literal kitchen sink with their Pro lineup, each missing something quite troubling, or seemingly designed to target a niche market that exists on another planet somewhere.

What niche was the Diablo supposed to fill? It’s a micro iDSD Signature painted Corvette Red stripped of all features. The Neo iDSD? You got me on that one—Pro iDSD components, again stripped of all features. And why offer an upgrade to the Zen line with Signature models that remove all (literally all!) of the features folks enjoy on the base models? And why do they seem to be the only manufacturer with this weird channel imbalance at low volumes?

Seriously, what were they thinking putting out those Zen Signature HFM and 6XX models instead a premium option that is suited to listeners with a full spectrum of headphones? The Sennheiser HD600 is 20 years old and is almost embarrassingly stale. And the HifiMan brand, albeit terrific in its flagship tiers, still are notorious for build issues, and they’re hardly the most popular cans being paired with a medium-tier line like the Zen Signature.

My Focal Utopias and Stellias sound perfect in the mids and highs—same with my Sony Z1Rs and Audeze LCD-X’s! Why would I want to mess with what those ultra-modern and immensely popular cans have already perfected? Audiophiles love open-back or planar headphones these days—and the only thing they want is a little more oomph in the low end for non-classical genres. Why not stay current and just provide the subtle bass enhancement xBass they already have, that had proven popular? Why include it on the Pro iCAN Signature but replace it with these headphone-specific tone adjustments that only satisfy a small subset of consumers?

I gotta let this go and either make do with the enormous investment I’ve made in iFi, or sell it all for a fraction of what I paid and look for another brand. I’ve been eyeing the RME ADI-2 for some time, which is extremely well-reviewed, by audiophiles everywhere, and they don’t seem to have trouble fitting tone controls in their gear. The folks at iFi seem to be listening to someone other than the group conscience of the present. Rant over, peace!

 

[Gippy]

Thank you. May I ask which DAC you went with?

The Topping D90, which was $700 instead of the Pro iDSD's $2500 at the time. Unfortunately, I can't recommend the D90 because the USB input was horrendous. The D90 is also now discontinued in favor of the D90SE because of the AKM factory fire and subsequent shortage of AKM DAC chips. I'm still using the D90 via optical input but that means no DSD, no MQA, no fanciness. Just good ol' PCM. I've sworn off getting any future Topping products because any valid criticism of Topping, despite multiple reports of issues, gets its fans after you.

If you want to stay in the iFi environment and Burr-Brown DAC ships, you could probably just get away with the Neo iDSD which has balanced out. $800 vs. $3250 for the Pro iDSD Signature. Your call. Personally, I wouldn't bet on myself being able to tell the difference between the DAC output of the Neo iDSD and the Pro iDSD Signature.

 

[srkbear]

The Topping D90, which was $700 instead of the Pro iDSD's $2500 at the time. Unfortunately, I can't recommend the D90 because the USB input was horrendous. The D90 is also now discontinued in favor of the D90SE because of the AKM factory fire and subsequent shortage of AKM DAC chips. I'm still using the D90 via optical input but that means no DSD, no MQA, no fanciness. Just good ol' PCM. I've sworn off getting any future Topping products because any valid criticism of Topping, despite multiple reports of issues, gets its fans after you.

If you want to stay in the iFi environment and Burr-Brown DAC ships, you could probably just get away with the Neo iDSD which has balanced out. $800 vs. $3250 for the Pro iDSD Signature. Your call. Personally, I wouldn't bet on myself being able to tell the difference between the DAC output of the Neo iDSD and the Pro iDSD Signature.

Oh, the Neo iDSD would be terrific if it only had xBass or some other tone control! As I yapped on about earlier, all their offerings initially get me all excited, until I notice that they left out an essential feature that made me like iFi in the first place!

 

[Gippy]

The idea is to feed the Neo iDSD's DAC balanced output at the back into the Pro iCAN. I know you want an all-in-one solution, but the Neo iDSD + Pro iCAN Signature combined is still (barely) cheaper than the Pro iDSD Signature. I still have my Micro iDSD Black Label because it can act as a USB powerbank, something that the Micro iDSD Signature can't do. So I totally understand the frustration when the "new and improved" models are cutting features.

 

[iFi audio]

Maybe if you could offer me some solutions to my issues here it would go a long way towards softening my tone.

As much as I'd like to have an alternative for you, from our lineup only Pro iCAN fits your needs (balanced, lots of power, in-built bass boost). As for other things you wrote, addressing them one by one would get us nowhere at this point. Suffice it to say, I can see your frustration, I understand that you would like to see bass boost in our reference DAC and I appreciate having you around as a fan. But there are reasons why we do things the way we do, some our design choices are more understandable than others and we can't please everyone.
Peace

 

[cglin222]

As much as I'd like to have an alternative for you, from our lineup only Pro iCAN fits your needs (balanced, lots of power, in-built bass boost). As for other things you wrote, addressing them one by one would get us nowhere at this point. Suffice it to say, I can see your frustration, I understand that you would like to see bass boost in our reference DAC and I appreciate having you around as a fan. But there are reasons why we do things the way we do, some our design choices are more understandable than others and we can't please everyone.
Peace

Is there plan for just the pro dsd dac only
without amp section? I really like the pro ican signature but getting another pro dsd dac/amp and not use the amp section seems over kill