iFi audio NEO Stream - Sweet Streams!

[mu41]

Hello I am new here and Reading this treat with interest, I Will audition the neo stream asap but when purchased for sure Will power it with this dutch Made power supply. https://www.faradpowersupplies.com/

 

[jlemaster1957]

Will the 4.4mm balanced output allow me to plug in my headphones directly?

This appears to be an LO 4.4 connection. IFI has also produced a 4.4 mm —-> dual XLR cable (link below) for those of us sendi g an analogue signal to an AMP.

https://ifi-audio.com/products/4-4mm-to-xlr-cable/

I obtained this to connect my DAP (Hiby R8) LO output to an external amp XLR inputs and wondered why IFI had produced this but now it is obvious- though I guess even the Zen DACs had 4.4 mm LO outs.

The choice to add optical input and a LAN-> Fiber converter IN THE BOX is an interesting one. How it performs compared to other similar systems, eg Sonore OpticalRendu will be important to assess. The choice to OUTPUT IIS is interesting, and suggests that as well as a streamer this unit is doing duty as a DDC. There is a lot on the website about signal purity, so it seems the answer is ‘yes’, as the digital outputs clearly are intended to allow connection to an external DAC. The only thing missing seems to be a connection for an external clock. Really nice that there is an option to connect one’s choice of an LPS, in case desired instead of the supplied power source (yes). @ctrlm, very much looking forward to your impressions.

@JjB067 wlelcome to the Forum- you are obviously not an audio noob and I hope you find we are your peeps. Your impressions are spot on what is welcomed by those across this forum. Be sure to check out the new user articles here if you have not yet- these will spare you many potential sorrows and increase the joys. This is a fantastic community, but we do have our little ways at times.

Independent measurements on this Unit will be conducted as well (no doubt soon to appear as this unit screams for attention by our measurement colleagues on other fora - not my forte to be sure). This is reminiscent to me of the Matrix Audio Element X (complete with the option to play files from a connected NAS but with the optical and DDC functions and sans the anyway-not-so-great HP amp) at about 1/3 the price. Fascinating!

 

[Topmounter]

So close. A basic remote with volume control would have made this an insta-buy for me.

 

[jlemaster1957]

I had a look at the listed I2s pin-outs for this unit last night. Granted that there is no accepted I2S standard, but @iFi audio are the pin-out settings user adjustable? For me, that is a go-no go issue- if the i2S pin-outs are NOT configurable, and the i2S can only output to other IFI devices, this would severely limit the flexibility of the device, and its usefulness to me.

 

[Marutks]

and the i2S can only output to other IFI devices, this would severely limit the flexibility of the device, and its usefulness to me.

Does i2s work with Spring 3 DAC ?

 

[JjB067]

Does i2s work with Spring 3 DAC ?

Just to say the Volumio interface for the Neo Stream does not have any mention of I2S configurations at least currently, so in the absence of physical dip switches on the outside of the unit, it seems iFi are assuming that downstream items like DACs or DDCs need to adapt their I2S settings.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

From ifi Audio website...

Cheers!!

 

[JjB067]

In my original post #88 on this forum, I promised to compare the iFi Zen and Neo Streams overall sound in a more A/B manner, alternating between the two streamers as rapidly as is practical. Here is how I got on with this using Spotify as the sole streaming source for the moment.

The setup goes as follows. The Neo Stream is put into Digital output mode and the TOSLINK digital out connected with a fiberoptic cable into the corresponding input of the miniDSP SHD Studio room correction box. The Zen Stream is put into SPDIF coax output mode and connected into the coax input of the Studio. So no USB mode or downstream DDC this time around. A handy feature of the SHD Studio box is that you can restrict the span of input source options using the control application (miniDSP call this a plugin but it is just a program running on a PC/laptop). So using the menu options Preferences/Selectable Input Sources you can just enable any of the possible digital inputs to be included in the list of options to be cycled through using the remote control. So I just ticked SPDIF and TOSLINK options and unticked all others, then just pressing the source button on the remote switches quickly between the two digital inputs. As regards Spotify app, we simply toggle between our two listed streamers with one touchscreen press, follow it quickly with a press on the remote. This allows us to hop between the two streamers while playing a single piece of music, the time gap with quick fingers about 1 second. While not being perfect as regards synchronisation, it is OK for our current purposes. Other miscellaneous conditions : Neo Stream powered by supplied iPowerX 9V 2.5A, Zen Stream by iPowerX 15V 1.5A. Neo connected via Optibox, Zen by standard RJ45 ethernet connections so a possible difference here in LAN quality, both wired though no WiFi connections used. Both streamers in AI0 mode, the SHD Studio applies a common digital volume control and Dirac Live room correction filter to either stream. Everything downstream is the same as in post #88, same DAC amplifiers and speakers. I also made sure the Volumio interface to both streamers had the mixer volume control set to none and identical buffer lengths of 32MB used. Incidentally make sure you name the streamers with different names so you can identify them unambiguously in the Spotify app. Visually you will see the Zen streamer led turn on/off and the Neo coverart display on/off, so you will always know which of them is active, the SHD Studio also displays the source on its OLED screen.

So what did I hear using this setup? Well playing a lot of different tracks, I concluded that there was no discernible difference between the sound of the two streamers. Both sound very good indeed and Spotify does really sound excellent on either streamer. Sometimes I thought the Neo was a bit clearer only to find it sounded just as good when I switched over to the Zen. If I were to be blindfolded and someone else did the switching, I don't think I would be able to reliably pick which streamer was actually playing. So sound quality excellent on both streamers, no real differences between the two of them at least doing the test described above . Of course this is just my subjective opinion and other people might be able to pick a winner with other kit and listening conditions.

 

[Clemmaster]

In my original post #88 on this forum, I promised to compare the iFi Zen and Neo Streams overall sound in a more A/B manner, alternating between the two streamers as rapidly as is practical. Here is how I got on with this using Spotify as the sole streaming source for the moment.

The setup goes as follows. The Neo Stream is put into Digital output mode and the TOSLINK digital out connected with a fiberoptic cable into the corresponding input of the miniDSP SHD Studio room correction box. The Zen Stream is put into SPDIF coax output mode and connected into the coax input of the Studio. So no USB mode or downstream DDC this time around. A handy feature of the SHD Studio box is that you can restrict the span of input source options using the control application (miniDSP call this a plugin but it is just a program running on a PC/laptop). So using the menu options Preferences/Selectable Input Sources you can just enable any of the possible digital inputs to be included in the list of options to be cycled through using the remote control. So I just ticked SPDIF and TOSLINK options and unticked all others, then just pressing the source button on the remote switches quickly between the two digital inputs. As regards Spotify app, we simply toggle between our two listed streamers with one touchscreen press, follow it quickly with a press on the remote. This allows us to hop between the two streamers while playing a single piece of music, the time gap with quick fingers about 1 second. While not being perfect as regards synchronisation, it is OK for our current purposes. Other miscellaneous conditions : Neo Stream powered by supplied iPowerX 9V 2.5A, Zen Stream by iPowerX 15V 1.5A. Neo connected via Optibox, Zen by standard RJ45 ethernet connections so a possible difference here in LAN quality, both wired though no WiFi connections used. Both streamers in AI0 mode, the SHD Studio applies a common digital volume control and Dirac Live room correction filter to either stream. Everything downstream is the same as in post #88, same DAC amplifiers and speakers. I also made sure the Volumio interface to both streamers had the mixer volume control set to none and identical buffer lengths of 32MB used. Incidentally make sure you name the streamers with different names so you can identify them unambiguously in the Spotify app. Visually you will see the Zen streamer led turn on/off and the Neo coverart display on/off, so you will always know which of them is active, the SHD Studio also displays the source on its OLED screen.

So what did I hear using this setup? Well playing a lot of different tracks, I concluded that there was no discernible difference between the sound of the two streamers. Both sound very good indeed and Spotify does really sound excellent on either streamer. Sometimes I thought the Neo was a bit clearer only to find it sounded just as good when I switched over to the Zen. If I were to be blindfolded and someone else did the switching, I don't think I would be able to reliably pick which streamer was actually playing. So sound quality excellent on both streamers, no real differences between the two of them at least doing the test described above . Of course this is just my subjective opinion and other people might be able to pick a winner with other kit and listening conditions.

In this setup, the SHD acts as a buffer/“reclocker” so I’m not surprised you don’t hear a difference.
Is the SHD asynchronous to the input sources?

 

[JjB067]

In this setup, the SHD acts as a buffer/“reclocker” so I’m not surprised you don’t hear a difference.
Is the SHD asynchronous to the input sources?

Sorry about forgetting that detail. The SHD Studio box does indeed buffer it's digital inputs and reclocks them all to a new sample rate of 96 kHz, so an upsampling box as well. I think miniDSP do this to simplify the operation of the Dirac filters by having everything at a common frequency regardless of what the input frequency is on the digital inputs. So Neo says it is recieving PCM 44.1 kHz from Spotify, but the SHD outputs at 96 kHz as can be checked using the downstream RME ADI-2 DAC. So new upsampled clocking, but I think for all it's non-USB digital inputs the source is the clock controller, so not asynchronous. So the Neo is streaming out according to it's clock, the SHD is having to keep up synchronously with that, but then reclocks and upsamples, then applies the room correction filters etc and outputs it's digital SPDIF with it's clock in control. So as I understand the situation it is a synchronous chain, not asynchronous as in usual USB operation. So all this is occurring to either streamer input, so I believed the comparison would be fair, it is common to both streamer paths. Maybe I need to take this complication out of the chain, but it offered an easy way to hop between sources on demand.

 

[Alcophone]

Sorry about forgetting that detail. The SHD Studio box does indeed buffer it's digital inputs and reclocks them all to a new sample rate of 96 kHz, so an upsampling box as well. I think miniDSP do this to simplify the operation of the Dirac filters by having everything at a common frequency regardless of what the input frequency is on the digital inputs. So Neo says it is recieving PCM 44.1 kHz from Spotify, but the SHD outputs at 96 kHz as can be checked using the downstream RME ADI-2 DAC. So new upsampled clocking, but I think for all it's non-USB digital inputs the source is the clock controller, so not asynchronous. So the Neo is streaming out according to it's clock, the SHD is having to keep up synchronously with that, but then reclocks and upsamples, then applies the room correction filters etc and outputs it's digital SPDIF with it's clock in control. So as I understand the situation it is a synchronous chain, not asynchronous as in usual USB operation. So all this is occurring to either streamer input, so I believed the comparison would be fair, it is common to both streamer paths. Maybe I need to take this complication out of the chain, but it offered an easy way to hop between sources on demand.

It's not necessarily synchronous, and especially if the output sample rate is higher something needs to generate that faster clock. If you put 44.1 kHz in and it spits out 96 kHz, well that's a factor of 2.1768707482993... so it even has to interpolate samples at points inbetween the samples sent in.

Also by using TOSLINK for one source and coax for another you're giving one the advantage of perfect electrical isolation and the other the potential advantage of lower jitter (TOSLINK has a bad reputation in that regard, but I have no idea how substantiated that is).

Ideally you feed the streamer directly into a DAC, with the same cable for both. Tedious, I know.

 

[JjB067]

It's not necessarily synchronous, and especially if the output sample rate is higher something needs to generate that faster clock. If you put 44.1 kHz in and it spits out 96 kHz, well that's a factor of 2.1768707482993... so it even has to interpolate samples at points inbetween the samples sent in.

Also by using TOSLINK for one source and coax for another you're giving one the advantage of perfect electrical isolation and the other the potential advantage of lower jitter (TOSLINK has a bad reputation in that regard, but I have no idea how substantiated that is).

Ideally you feed the streamer directly into a DAC, with the same cable for both. Tedious, I know.

Thanks for the feedback. I was aware of the non-integer upsampling factor before I purchased the Studio and it did make me pause a bit before purchasing. However once I had done some Dirac correction sessions with it, I became a convert and worried no more. The fast floating point processors inside these processing engines seem to handle arithmetic tasks like these with ease. Because I liked the room correction a lot, I never turn it off and perhaps then I never thought of taking it out of the digital chain for these streamer tests either.

Your point about different interface types TOSLINK/coaxial is valid but again I was just thinking pragmatically what connectors were available on everything in the chain. I assumed that these digital outputs would all be identical on the Neo, but perhaps after transmission they might deviate anyway due to different jitter mechanisms etc. So I will have a second go at this streamer comparison going straight into DAC stage, I have a few DACS to hand so will give them all a go. I will stick to simple coax cable the same for the two streamers following your suggestion. Will be more tedious having to connect and disconnect the same cable but it removes some variables. Only downside is the sound will not be room corrected so I will need to retrain my hearing !

 

[Alcophone]

Because I liked the room correction a lot, I never turn it off and perhaps then I never thought of taking it out of the digital chain for these streamer tests either.

That's understandable, and valid for a subjective evaluation since that's what you're familiar with. And it's still good to know that the Neo Stream at least performs correctly enough for the SHD Studio not to care in a way that results in audible differences to you.

Your point about different interface types TOSLINK/coaxial is valid but again I was just thinking pragmatically what connectors were available on everything in the chain. I assumed that these digital outputs would all be identical on the Neo, but perhaps after transmission they might deviate anyway due to different jitter mechanisms etc.

Even before, since these are very different transmission mechanisms, and people have on occasion asserted that the same DAC's different inputs don't sound equally good, so the SHD Studio's differences in handling these inputs also are a potential factor for differences.
Personally, ultimately, I also wouldn't expect it to matter much at all, but in a fair comparison you want to control as many variables as possible, and ideally only modify one (e.g. the source device).
Here you have not asserted differences, but technically that still could mean that the better device's advantages where nullified by using the worse transmission method, causing the same outcome - ideally we don't even have a reason to consider anything like that by setting up the test accordingly.

So I will have a second go at this streamer comparison going straight into DAC stage, I have a few DACS to hand so will give them all a go. I will stick to simple coax cable the same for the two streamers following your suggestion. Will be more tedious having to connect and disconnect the same cable but it removes some variables.

Sounds great to me! And of course you don't have to do that, seems like for your purposes both devices can work equally well. Whether that makes you satisfied in your purchase or not is a different question, but maybe you're just happy to have a display now.

Only downside is the sound will not be room corrected so I will need to retrain my hearing !

That's true. I take it you're not much of a headphone listener?

Now one thing you could do, in principle, is record the SHD Studio's digital output and play that back as a FLAC file straight into the DAC. Bit wise the DAC should see the same data this way (a room corrected song), but clocked by the streamer. For that you'd need a way to create a bit perfect S/PDIF "recording", though, which isn't trivial. And it removes the impact of the extra work the streamer has to do when streaming Spotify (network traffic and decompression), so it's a different test.

 

[jlemaster1957]

Thanks for the feedback. I was aware of the non-integer upsampling factor before I purchased the Studio and it did make me pause a bit before purchasing. However once I had done some Dirac correction sessions with it, I became a convert and worried no more. The fast floating point processors inside these processing engines seem to handle arithmetic tasks like these with ease. Because I liked the room correction a lot, I never turn it off and perhaps then I never thought of taking it out of the digital chain for these streamer tests either.

Your point about different interface types TOSLINK/coaxial is valid but again I was just thinking pragmatically what connectors were available on everything in the chain. I assumed that these digital outputs would all be identical on the Neo, but perhaps after transmission they might deviate anyway due to different jitter mechanisms etc. So I will have a second go at this streamer comparison going straight into DAC stage, I have a few DACS to hand so will give them all a go. I will stick to simple coax cable the same for the two streamers following your suggestion. Will be more tedious having to connect and disconnect the same cable but it removes some variables. Only downside is the sound will not be room corrected so I will need to retrain my hearing !

@JjB067 could you pls tell us a bit about yourself? I looked for your introductory email (normally the first thing new users do) and could not find one but you are obviously no novice.

 

[Rowan94]

I noticed the neo stream spec states Power consumption
"<0.5W idle, 14W max"

whereas on zen stream it is
"No Signal ~6W, Max Signal ~10W"

@iFi audio, does this mean neo stream is cooler during idle state or is it a typo?

We'll address this as soon as we have confirmation from our HQ.

I had a look at the listed I2s pin-outs for this unit last night. Granted that there is no accepted I2S standard, but @iFi audio are the pin-out settings user adjustable? For me, that is a go-no go issue- if the i2S pin-outs are NOT configurable, and the i2S can only output to other IFI devices, this would severely limit the flexibility of the device, and its usefulness to me.

NEO Stream's I2S pinout is fixed and its pin configuration is listed in the product's specs. We'll investigate whether pinouts can be reconfigured in the future updates, however. If it's possible to implement, we'll do it!