iFi audio iDSD Signature - The saga continues!

[jsmiller58]

I just got the xdsd last year. I love that little thing! It sounds great! No channel imbalance at all. I don’t know what I’m doing with the Finale. It sounds more powerful but that could be psychological. I haven’t actually done a side by side comparison yet. I was looking for an upgrade but I don’t think the finale is an upgrade, unless all that extra power adds to the warmth/ bassy quality that I’m always looking for. Great engineering on the xdsd!

I have had the XDSD for a long time now (2018), but haven’t used it in a while. I’ll have to dust it off and compare it to the Finale!

 

[rudbeard]

How do others deal with the serial number label wearing off so easily, especially when it is necessary to get support?

 

[and~loving~it]

Hi everyone. I’ve been listening to the Finale for a while now, and it’s nice! Whatever little channel imbalance there is left, is completely gone by 10 o’clock, and maybe less. And that’s on Turbo where it should turn up worse. The details are pretty amazing. This is a very refined dac, and a very sweet amplifier. I’m not using expensive IEMs, and it doesn’t matter. I can hear things that I’ve never heard before. Correct me if I’m wrong anyone, but the led on my unit stays white all the time, when I’m using the USB input. But when I use the optical port from my WiiM mini, the led turns lots of different colors. I think this means that the GTO filter is working on the USB port, but not on the optical port. So USB is being over sampled, and the optical port is not.

I jumped right from the Finale to the original ifi xdsd, and there’s a difference, but it’s not huge. The xdsd doesn’t have the same amount of detail that the Finale has, and it’s not as 3 dimensional as the Finale is, not as immersive. However, the tonality, the timbre, the bass, and the power, all scream Ifi, and are very pleasant to listen to. You can tell they come from the same pedigree.

 

[Hyde00]

Correct me if I’m wrong anyone, but the led on my unit stays white all the time, when I’m using the USB input. But when I use the optical port from my WiiM mini, the led turns lots of different colors. I think this means that the GTO filter is working on the USB port, but not on the optical port. So USB is being over sampled, and the optical port is not.

I vaguely read if you use bit perfect (switch at the bottom) then it over samples (only work with USB).

Try flip the switch to standard and see what happens lol.

 

[and~loving~it]

Hi everyone. I found this on the Internet:
Supports /Does not support
7.0 MQA, DSD up to 256 on Windows, 128 on Mac, PCM up to 384KHz /DSD 512, PCM 768 KHz
7.0c iFi’s proprietary GTO filter, MQA, DSD up to 256 on Windows, 128 on Mac, PCM up to 384KHz /DSD 512, PCM 768 KHz, GTO on S/PDIF
7.2 DSD up to 512 on Windows, PCM up to 768KHz /MQA

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

I’m wrong anyone, but the led on my unit stays white all the time, when I’m using the USB input. But when I use the optical port from my WiiM mini, the led turns lots of different colors. I think this means that the GTO filter is working on the USB port, but not on the optical port.

Correct. USB and SPDIF path are pretty much separate.

So USB is being over sampled, and the optical port is not.

It cannot be, design limitation. Same as on the original iDSD micro.

I jumped right from the Finale to the original ifi xdsd, and there’s a difference, but it’s not huge.

The xDSD does not use as high quality passive parts and the headphone amplifier is not as good (in part constrained by a small battery). It was designed as replacement for the sub 200 USD nano, to give an idea where it sits in the greater scheme of things.

Thor

 

[and~loving~it]

I gather this means the Finale I have has firmware version 7.0c, because that’s the one with GTO. I would like to switch my Finale to the firmware version that eliminates GTO and MQA, because I don’t want either one of them. Which firmware version is that, 7.0 or 7.2? I think it’s firmware version 7.2 that I want, because 7.0 introduces MQA, and 7.0c has GTO, and MQA. But I need some kind of special serial number to load a Signature firmware into my Finale… Someone said there’s a serial number on here, that lets you put firmware version 7.2 on the Finale? The upshot is, I would like to take GTO and MQA off the Finale. I know it’s possible. Can anyone tell me how to do that? Thank you everyone.

Ooops! Wait, I found it. Is this it? 2014912345 ? Yes. This is the serial number that was being passed around to those of us that want to change the firmware on our Finale. I’m guessing I want version 7.2, to eliminate GTO and MQA.

 

[Hyde00]

I gather this means the Finale I have has firmware version 7.0c, because that’s the one with GTO. I would like to switch my Finale to the firmware version that eliminates GTO and MQA, because I don’t want either one of them. Which firmware version is that, 7.0 or 7.2? I think it’s firmware version 7.2 that I want, because 7.0 introduces MQA, and 7.0c has GTO, and MQA. But I need some kind of special serial number to load a Signature firmware into my Finale… Someone said there’s a serial number on here, that lets you put firmware version 7.2 on the Finale? The upshot is, I would like to take GTO and MQA off the Finale. I know it’s possible. Can anyone tell me how to do that? Thank you everyone.

Ooops! Wait, I found it. Is this it? 2014912345 ? Yes. This is the serial number that was being passed around to those of us that want to change the firmware on our Finale. I’m guessing I want version 7.2, to eliminate GTO and MQA.

I can't remember off my head but generally speaking:

Base = yes MQA no GTO (i.e. 7.0)
B = no MQA no GTO (i.e. 7.0b)
C = yes MQA yes GTO (i.e. 7.0c)

I would suggest you download both 7.0 and 7.2 and read the change log.

You can swap back and forth indefinitely so I would just download it all and try all of them.

You would probably want B firmware but sometimes I find the base one sound better even though I also don't care about MQA.

Cheers!

 

[Hyde00]

Here I actually went and downloaded the newest 2 firmware, we're up to 7.50 and 7.60.

This is the log off 7.60.

Firmware Version Update Change Log

XMOS V7.50 → V7.60
Improved USB compatibility (fixed iQOO phone USB recognition issue).
Performance optimizations and bug fixes.

XMOS V7.5b → V7.6b
Improved USB compatibility (fixed iQOO phone USB recognition issue).
Performance optimizations and bug fixes.

XMOS V7.5c → V7.6c
Improved USB compatibility (fixed iQOO phone USB recognition issue).
Performance optimizations and bug fixes.
You can choose any version and see which one suits you best.

Firmware Versions Change Log

Our firmware comes in standard, 'b', and 'c' variants. Each is slightly different to suit various needs. Here’s a brief overview:

Standard Version: Default firmware with all features. Recommended for most users and comes pre-installed on new devices.

'b' Version: Same as the standard but without MQA capabilities. Ideal for users who prefer CD quality or Hi-Res FLAC. Also a good alternative if issues arise with other versions.

'c' Version: Same as the standard but includes the GTO (Gibbs Transient Optimised) digital filter. Offers subtle audio quality differences. Note: LEDs on your DAC may behave differently due to upsampling.

Choose the version that best fits your needs. For more details on the GTO filter, see our Tech Note: Gibbs Transient Optimised Digital Filter.

https://ifi-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/iFi-audio-Tech-Note-The-GTO-Filter.pdf
https://ifi-audio.com/home-2/led-calculator

 

[BS5711]

Yes the B version is non GTO and non MQA.

Wouldn't the Finale use the normal Signature firmware which is up to 7.6 now, why would you use 7.0 or 7.2 ?

The serial number doesn't matter so long as you have the first five appropriate for your device because some vary and that is why there are two different start to the serial numbers on some devices. With the Signature either 20140..... or 20149...... can use 7.6B and I expect that would be true of the Finale.

So far as the actual serial number to enter, it doesn't matter except for the first 5 numbers which it sounds like are 20149 for the Finale, the next five can be anything.


Hyde00 and I overlapped

Install 7.6B

 

[and~loving~it]

Wow. Yeah, I got V7.6b also. No MQA and no GTO. Perfect! Thank you so much guys! Can I change the firmware with an iPad or do I need a Windows machine? What utility do I actually use to switch the firmware?

Okay… found it. I need a windows machine. No problem. I guess I’m using ifiusbaudiodfu.exe??

 

[BS5711]

Wow. Yeah, I got V7.6b also. No MQA and no GTO. Perfect! Thank you so much guys! Can I change the firmware with an iPad or do I need a Windows machine? What utility do I actually use to switch the firmware?

You need a Windows computer.

Download the firmware and drivers, install the drivers.

Read the instructions but I found them more confusing than helpful, have a read of the below and hopefully that helps.

It is very straightforward once you know what to look for in the downloaded drivers and installed software.

With the Signature connected and turned on you are basically just pointing the software with the Signature recognised to the firmware that you saved to your computer and telling it to update. I recall it need to be connected via a USB-A port not a USB-C port, not certain on that.

For me this is the path to the software: C:\Program Files\iFi\USB Audio Device Driver\W10_x64

Once in the software folder the the "cpl" file is the Control Panel to check the version before and after the update and the "dfu" file is the Device Firmware Update (I guess) - see image below.

Double click to open them with the Signature connected and turned on and follow the instructions ..... piece of cake.

 

[and~loving~it]

Thank you! I’m doing this because with GTO installed, it doesn’t affect the optical input, but it seriously affects the USB input. I notice the difference. The optical input sounds so much better, to my ears, than the USB input. This is because the USB port is gto’d. I’ve had this problem before, with the original xdsd. It sounded pretty bad, until I removed the GTO. Something about it just doesn’t agree with me.

 

[BS5711]

Thank you! I’m doing this because with GTO installed, it doesn’t affect the optical input, but it seriously affects the USB input. I notice the difference. The optical input sounds so much better, to my ears, than the USB input. This is because the USB port is gto’d. I’ve had this problem before, with the original xdsd. It sounded pretty bad, until I removed the GTO. Something about it just doesn’t agree with me.

All good.

I have the Diablo and it does the same, that is GTO works on USB only and not coaxial which I often use.

I was kind of ambivalent about GTO or otherwise but I like simplicity so 7.6B for me and USB and coaxial are the same.

Now that MQA is all but gone from Tidal I am back with them.

 

[Hyde00]

It sounded pretty bad, until I removed the GTO.

I was kind of ambivalent about GTO or otherwise but I like simplicity so 7.6B for me and USB and coaxial are the same.

I tried GTO on a few different iFi device and I find it always sound too digital to me.

So I always opt to the firmware without GTO.

As for firmware "b". I read it holds notes longer so it has a more natural decay.

But it could be just in my head but I think base firmware sounds a tiny bit wider? Again it could just be in my head.

When in doubt test both LOL.