iFi audio iDSD Signature - The saga continues!

[vonspanky]

Sorry, can't answer your question, but I am curious -- how does the Signature compare to the Zen Dac/Can stack (which I also happen to have)?

Early days so initial thoughts only. The zen stack is softer and warmer. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. The micro idsd is more neutral and ‘clean’ sounding. The treble sounds a tad more sparkly and airy. The bass a tad sharper. The sound is still punchy and engaging unlike some dac/amps I’ve heard which sound sterile and ‘thin’ - including the Neo. I like a warmish sound as I find it more engaging. The micro idsd could strike that perfect balance for me. But I need to spend more time with it.
Whether this is worth twice the cost of the zen stack is a tougher question. Especially if you don’t need portability or most of the idsd features. I thought the Neo would be the perfect fit for my desktop use case but alas no.

I listen to indie and rock mostly.

 

[Sma0815]

Hello,

I read that tidal now supports mqa native on android out of the app. With my ifi signature Android detects the signature but tidal is crashing when start playing.

Has anyone managed to get mqa out of android from tidal to the signature (purple led)?

With the uapp app it's working but I would prefer the tidal app because of the nicer interface.

 

[SRKRAM]

Our general recommendation is to use Eco Mode + a notch of IEMatch.

Thanks - That helped.

The Xbass and 3D features are interesting, but unfortunately don't really suit any of my headphones, so I'd like to suggest a future product with parametric equalisation built in - Perhaps it could be called 'iDSP' - Instead of Xbass and 3D switches there could be switches to select different EQ profiles. The difference being that the EQ profiles could be freely configured by the user, instead if fixed like Xbass and 3D.

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

Hello,

I read that tidal now supports mqa native on android out of the app. With my ifi signature Android detects the signature but tidal is crashing when start playing.

Has anyone managed to get mqa out of android from tidal to the signature (purple led)?

With the uapp app it's working but I would prefer the tidal app because of the nicer interface.

I can try this to see if I can replicate it, but I believe this an issue related to the Tidal app itself.

Hope it works sooner than later because I would like to use the Tidal app directly myself too.

Thanks - That helped.

The Xbass and 3D features are interesting, but unfortunately don't really suit any of my headphones, so I'd like to suggest a future product with parametric equalisation built in - Perhaps it could be called 'iDSP' - Instead of Xbass and 3D switches there could be switches to select different EQ profiles. The difference being that the EQ profiles could be freely configured by the user, instead if fixed like Xbass and 3D.

Appreciate the suggestion! I'll toss this to our ideas list.

 

[24bit Garbage]

If that's your way of saying that we have our house sound, then yes, it's a thing

That's not really... what I was trying to convey, but yes, you certainly do. And I guess I kind of if was saying that as well, in a sense. Now I wish I could remember who told me the following quotes / paraphrases... but it goes something like this;

"A large part of the HiFi Sphere is just a frantic search for the perfect distortion profile." and "Having a house sound means you're trying to perfect that profile."

And that my friends, is definitely also a thing!

To my understanding, the Signature has improved SQ over its predecessors.

Well, what if someone told you, that might not necessarily be the case.(?)

Hi, do you think idsd signature sounds better than zen stack, by how much? I'm thinking about selling my Zen DAC getting a idsd signature.

Sorry, can't answer your question, but I am curious -- how does the Signature compare to the Zen Dac/Can stack (which I also happen to have)?

I can provide you guys a slightly different kind of answer with some perspective.
As most people who are not trying to sell you stuff will tell you. Once you go from say, the random built in solution like, your standard motherboard built-in D/A, mobile phone jack etc. and so on, to a proper discrete D/A. You've made one of / if not the largest upgrades in sound quality you'll ever do. From that point onwards, you'll spend hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars for maybe single percent gains.

With that said, I used to own the Zen-stack, and I was quite happy with them. (I did have an "iFi xPower" power supply and an "iPurifier3" plugged in with them.) And I could actually see myself having stuck to that combo and been perfectly happy with it. But I guess I'm like most people in this hobby, never quite satisfied with what I have and constantly on the lookout for that mystical "Improved sound quality" that everyone always seems to rave about. So naturally I upgraded to the iDSD Signature, not just for the sake of upgrading but because I actually saw that I would use it's (trans)portability and built in IEMatch among other things.

And that is part of the point / advice I wanted to give you. If you're thinking on upgrading Zen-Stack -> iDSD Signature, purely or mostly based on wanting to improve sound quality. I'd advise you against that, actually. Yes, in my opinion, the Signature indeed has better sound quality than the Zen-Stack. But if you were under the impression that the amount of money you'll have to pay for that upgrade, reflects the amount of better sound the iDSD will provide you. I can tell you under no uncertain terms that No, it does not. What you're paying for are form factor and features, primarily. So if you do not have a pretty specific use for those things, it's not worth it.

As you can see at the top of this post, iFi enjoys the fact that they have a "house sound", and as you can see by my somewhat cheeky response, what this basically means is that they have an distortion profile with varying degrees of audibility across the majority of their products. What this means for you is that regardless of what product you buy within iFis lineup, you will have a similar sort of sound. You'll "recognize" the sound signature. So in this sense, and because of this also, you will not have a very different overall experience sound wise from what you have now. The iDSD Signature is at best "only", a couple to a few dB's better than the Zen-Stack in terms of ultimate fidelity / sound quality. And this last statement is not my subjective opinion.

Thanks - That helped.

The Xbass and 3D features are interesting, but unfortunately don't really suit any of my headphones, so I'd like to suggest a future product with parametric equalisation built in - Perhaps it could be called 'iDSP' - Instead of Xbass and 3D switches there could be switches to select different EQ profiles. The difference being that the EQ profiles could be freely configured by the user, instead if fixed like Xbass and 3D.

I've wanted something similar to this, but "truth" be told, if we're going to go all the way up to a fully parametric equalization system built into the product itself, disregarding that iFi generally despises any and all forms of DSP in their products (including having good/better interpolation filters because that would be way too much damn computing on the signal, right iFi? ), we're basically talking about a higher end product because of all that would needwd to be there in terms of, raw computing power, display, controls and so on. And, it's not really going to be that good anyway. "tone control" and simpler forms of EQ are perfectly fine I feel and relatively easy to implement in analogue domain, I think. But implementing a full parametric system to a high standard (forget about doing that analogue first off ). That's probably kind of tough. And expensive.

Edit: Unless these exists some simple way of doing it with some sort of one chip DSP solution / FPGA that I'm not aware of?

But don't get me wrong, I do A LOT of EQ:ing and restoration works in iZotope RX 8 with Ozone 9 among others. So I'm very comfortable doing some heavy duty floating point operations on those poor non suspecting signals. I will bend them according to my will, artist intentions, mastering engineers and low level rounding errors be damned!! If I could have an Ozone 9 parametric EQ equivalent built in to my next iFi product (Voice controlled EQ functionality! You taking notes iFi? ) I'd definitely be interested to look into that if you know what I'm saying

 

[Johnfg465vd]

Sorry, can't answer your question, but I am curious -- how does the Signature compare to the Zen Dac/Can stack (which I also happen to have)?

I've got Zen Stack interconnected with the iFi 4.4 Cable and the iDSD Signature too. My impressions are similar to @vonspanky. Zen stack is warmer and smoother while the signature is a bit more neutralish, not neutral like Topping DACs but more like a iFi house sound neutral, if that makes sense. Signature does not have the same level of smoothness in the upper region as the Zen and has more energy there without harshness, so micro details are a bit easier to hear with the Signatute. Signature is also more resolving in complex passages and instrument seperation and placement is better. With the Zen stack I have a small amount of hiss with IEM's which is not noticeable with the Signature (even with IEMatch Off).

like @24bit Garbage said, the difference is not huge but easily noticeable and for me worth the upgrade, wish bluetooth input was available though.

 

[Johnfg465vd]

Hey guys, I got my Signature 2 weeks ago and I'm curious about the firmwares, which one do you guys prefer? So far I've tried 7.0, 7.2b & 7.3c and really like 7.0. an interesting thing is that I prefered the GTO (5.3c filter) with the Zen DAC but did not like the GTO filter (7.3c) with the signature, weird.

Also, has anyone tried connecting something like the Topping BC3 to the Signature for bluetooth input? I'd be curious to know if there is a good way to add wireless connectivity to the signature.

 

[bnupy]

Anyway to connect the signature as a dac to two nearfield speakers and a subwoofer ?

 

[24bit Garbage]

First, I want to leave a big Thank You to iFi's support people!

I, unfortunately, experienced some troubles with my iDSD Signature recently. These problems were quite bad in my case because they limited the overall usability of the product. So I contacted iFi's support team through the website and they helped me out as best they possibly could with my questions and concerns, and told me the next steps I needed to take. Always super nice and easy to talk to the people there as well! Of all the similar service-related experiences I've ever had, I'd rate iFi support very, very high on that list! Kind of weird in a sense, that "I actually feel like I was talking to an intelligent and understanding fellow human being", would be among the highest praise I can give, but it really is! And that's truly saying something about the excellent service quality iFi provides (or reflecting how truly awful and frustrating these things can be in the worst cases! ).

I don't know how it possibly could have been resolved better in the end! Now I have a new unit being shipped out to me and yeah.... no problems, and it went fast. Thanks! I thought I'd be without my iDSD for a long time while they attempted to make repairs to the unit, but no, they went the extra step and offered to replace the unit right away! How awesome is that, like really?

Look, I mean I have a big brand electronics shop close by where I live, I am a club member there as well with so much money spent there (too much... ). When my Sony WF-1000XM3's "had issues" a while back they offered to have them sent to their workshop to be repaired. That's great! But they did this a total of 5X (!!) times before they finally conceded that they probably weren't going to be able to fix them on the sixth try either.... I remember picking the earbuds up for the 4:th time and arriving home to realize, for the 5th time, that they're still busted. Returning to the store and having the same discussion as the last four times I was there for the same exact thing and they offer to send it... away... again... for a week... or two... And I be like: "goddamn can't you people just... ohh...!! "

Anyway. Thanks!

Hey guys, I got my Signature 2 weeks ago and I'm curious about the firmwares, which one do you guys prefer? So far I've tried 7.0, 7.2b & 7.3c and really like 7.0. an interesting thing is that I prefered the GTO (5.3c filter) with the Zen DAC but did not like the GTO filter (7.3c) with the signature, weird.

Also, has anyone tried connecting something like the Topping BC3 to the Signature for bluetooth input? I'd be curious to know if there is a good way to add wireless connectivity to the signature.

Adding an external BT module is... not an optimal situation really... but interesting idéa for sure! The Topping BC3 you mentioned... I don't know if that one would be so practical if it needs external 5v to run. iFi chopped that ability out of the Black Label when they adopted it into the Signature so we'd need like a power bank or wall wart right? (which would sort of be a pain in the... and defeat the purpose somewhat). And I think you'd most certainly need an LDAC capable source, otherwise, you'd be severely gimping performance of the iDSD. And at that point I start to question if it's worth it again you know. Isn't there any really small thing, like a dongle out there that has an optical out? Would be cool if it worked out okay somehow. My phone has LDAC so it could work out, maybe. Like the idéa!

Edit: Ops! It actually has an internal battery! I thought the 5v was for external power only but it's actually a charging port! That's good!!

I use the 768kHz - DSD512 capable firmware almost exclusively. I use that one a lot because I really prefer to bypass the stock filters, so I upsample in software before sending it to the iDSD. And that firmware provides a clear advantage in its slightly higher rate capabilities, provides for a cleaner output in the end and I really like that. And having something like 40+ high-quality filters (with HQplayer) is a lot more up my alley than being stuck with 2 standard ones. It's like ice cream you know, you want Ben & Jerrys because you can't be satisfied with just one taste, you want all the tastes!
I cannot relate to people who like plain vanilla ice cream and cheese only pizza.

But if I'm on the move or don't have access to the computer I usually go for the GTO-filter, (aka the MQA-filter). Or if the rate of what I'm listening to is already quite high, like 176/192 kHz+. I can go for the Bit-Perfect filter, (aka the NOS-filter) Transients are a joy with that filter in the right circumstances.

Generally speaking, I gravitate towards (short) slow roll-off minimum/intermediate phase filters. I usually find them to be the most natural and "easy" to listen to. Brings me closer to my music, focuses the music, transients are natural and they just clears away some of the hazey/blury/unfocused;ness of linear filters, especially the long and steep ones. I generally do not enjoy them as much, although I actually do enjoy listening to them some of the times! Especially the 1 million tap Closed-Form filter in HQplayer. That's probably the only excessively long linear phase filter I've heard that doesn't actually sound like it's an excessively long linear phase filter, it intrigues me as to how that's even possible, but I like it!

 

[Johnfg465vd]

First, I want to leave a big Thank You to iFi's support people!

I, unfortunately, experienced some troubles with my iDSD Signature recently. These problems were quite bad in my case because they limited the overall usability of the product. So I contacted iFi's support team through the website and they helped me out as best they possibly could with my questions and concerns, and told me the next steps I needed to take. Always super nice and easy to talk to the people there as well! Of all the similar service-related experiences I've ever had, I'd rate iFi support very, very high on that list! Kind of weird in a sense, that "I actually feel like I was talking to an intelligent and understanding fellow human being", would be among the highest praise I can give, but it really is! And that's truly saying something about the excellent service quality iFi provides (or reflecting how truly awful and frustrating these things can be in the worst cases! ).

I don't know how it possibly could have been resolved better in the end! Now I have a new unit being shipped out to me and yeah.... no problems, and it went fast. Thanks! I thought I'd be without my iDSD for a long time while they attempted to make repairs to the unit, but no, they went the extra step and offered to replace the unit right away! How awesome is that, like really?

Look, I mean I have a big brand electronics shop close by where I live, I am a club member there as well with so much money spent there (too much... ). When my Sony WF-1000XM3's "had issues" a while back they offered to have them sent to their workshop to be repaired. That's great! But they did this a total of 5X (!!) times before they finally conceded that they probably weren't going to be able to fix them on the sixth try either.... I remember picking the earbuds up for the 4:th time and arriving home to realize, for the 5th time, that they're still busted. Returning to the store and having the same discussion as the last four times I was there for the same exact thing and they offer to send it... away... again... for a week... or two... And I be like: "goddamn can't you people just... ohh...!! "

Anyway. Thanks!



Adding an external BT module is... not an optimal situation really... but interesting idéa for sure! The Topping BC3 you mentioned... I don't know if that one would be so practical if it needs external 5v to run. iFi chopped that ability out of the Black Label when they adopted it into the Signature so we'd need like a power bank or wall wart right? (which would sort of be a pain in the... and defeat the purpose somewhat). And I think you'd most certainly need an LDAC capable source, otherwise, you'd be severely gimping performance of the iDSD. And at that point I start to question if it's worth it again you know. Isn't there any really small thing, like a dongle out there that has an optical out? Would be cool if it worked out okay somehow. My phone has LDAC so it could work out, maybe. Like the idéa!

Edit: Ops! It actually has an internal battery! I thought the 5v was for external power only but it's actually a charging port! That's good!!

I use the 768kHz - DSD512 capable firmware almost exclusively. I use that one a lot because I really prefer to bypass the stock filters, so I upsample in software before sending it to the iDSD. And that firmware provides a clear advantage in its slightly higher rate capabilities, provides for a cleaner output in the end and I really like that. And having something like 40+ high-quality filters (with HQplayer) is a lot more up my alley than being stuck with 2 standard ones. It's like ice cream you know, you want Ben & Jerrys because you can't be satisfied with just one taste, you want all the tastes!
I cannot relate to people who like plain vanilla ice cream and cheese only pizza.

But if I'm on the move or don't have access to the computer I usually go for the GTO-filter, (aka the MQA-filter). Or if the rate of what I'm listening to is already quite high, like 176/192 kHz+. I can go for the Bit-Perfect filter, (aka the NOS-filter) Transients are a joy with that filter in the right circumstances.

Generally speaking, I gravitate towards (short) slow roll-off minimum/intermediate phase filters. I usually find them to be the most natural and "easy" to listen to. Brings me closer to my music, focuses the music, transients are natural and they just clears away some of the hazey/blury/unfocused;ness of linear filters, especially the long and steep ones. I generally do not enjoy them as much, although I actually do enjoy listening to them some of the times! Especially the 1 million tap Closed-Form filter in HQplayer. That's probably the only excessively long linear phase filter I've heard that doesn't actually sound like it's an excessively long linear phase filter, it intrigues me as to how that's even possible, but I like it!

I've been meaning to try the HQ Player (using JRiver currently) but figuring out the setup and settings felt like too much trouble. If possible could you send me a few pics of the settings you have on HQ Player.

 

[SRKRAM]

I've wanted something similar to this, but "truth" be told, if we're going to go all the way up to a fully parametric equalization system built into the product itself, disregarding that iFi generally despises any and all forms of DSP in their products (including having good/better interpolation filters because that would be way too much damn computing on the signal, right iFi? ), we're basically talking about a higher end product because of all that would needwd to be there in terms of, raw computing power, display, controls and so on. And, it's not really going to be that good anyway. "tone control" and simpler forms of EQ are perfectly fine I feel and relatively easy to implement in analogue domain, I think. But implementing a full parametric system to a high standard (forget about doing that analogue first off ). That's probably kind of tough. And expensive.

I'd be happy with something where I could upload EQ profiles and switch between them with a physical switch, without a complicated UI - As you said, DSP seems to be completely against IFI's ethos, so I wouldn't expect this to happen. I was just thinking that it would be nice if those switches would actually do something useful (for me). At least RME, Monoprice and MINIDSP already make DACs with parametric EQ built-in, and I'm sure there will be more, but probably not from IFI.
I used to be product manager for a device which had around 50'000 DSP cores. That was about 5 years ago now, but still want to have DSP everywhere

 

[SRKRAM]

Hey guys, I got my Signature 2 weeks ago and I'm curious about the firmwares, which one do you guys prefer? So far I've tried 7.0, 7.2b & 7.3c and really like 7.0. an interesting thing is that I prefered the GTO (5.3c filter) with the Zen DAC but did not like the GTO filter (7.3c) with the signature, weird.

Also, has anyone tried connecting something like the Topping BC3 to the Signature for bluetooth input? I'd be curious to know if there is a good way to add wireless connectivity to the signature.

I would also appreciate it if IFI would describe the available firmware a bit better. I have the following 5.x version firmwares available, but what do they actually mean, and which should I use (all text below is taken from IFI's download page):

• Firmware 5.3c – GTO Filter / MQA / DSD256 (Sub-version)
  • Release date: September 10, 2018
  • All PCM LED colours will be the same colour due to GTO filter. GTO filter which upsamples USB audio. MQA, DSD256 (Windows), DSD128 (Mac), 384kHz. SPDIF output disabled (on USB to SPDIF capable units). No GTO for SPDIF signal. No DSD512. No 768kHz.
• Firmware 5.3 – MQA / DSD256 (Cookies & Cream)
  • Release date: March 27, 2018
  • Full MQA major code optimisation important.
• Firmware 5.2 – DSD512 (Limoncello – Subversion 5.2A & 5.2B)
  • Release date: May 13, 2016
  • Fixed issues surrounding DoP standard; including ‘clicks’ when changing tracks and sonic differences to native DSD.
    Small code optimisations from previous firmwares.

Even the release dates seem questionable. The contents of the 5.3c download were modified in 02/2021, not 2018.
I don't use DSD, so that would seem to rule out 5.2.
I do use Tidal on a PC and via UAPP on Android, so should I use 5.3 or 5.3c?
I've also checked out the MQA instructions, but they don't really help.
If I enable MQA rendering in the Tidal desktop application the LED turns magenta (with both 5.3 and 5.3c IIRC).
With MQA rendering disabled in the Tidal application the LED stays green when MQA content is played.
The MQA instructions are unclear since the decoding instructions show the iDSD Neo which indicates MQA on it's display, but how about with the Signature's LED?

Also, how do these different firmwares affect what the filter switch does?

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

Hey guys, I got my Signature 2 weeks ago and I'm curious about the firmwares, which one do you guys prefer? So far I've tried 7.0, 7.2b & 7.3c and really like 7.0. an interesting thing is that I prefered the GTO (5.3c filter) with the Zen DAC but did not like the GTO filter (7.3c) with the signature, weird.

Also, has anyone tried connecting something like the Topping BC3 to the Signature for bluetooth input? I'd be curious to know if there is a good way to add wireless connectivity to the signature.

Sometimes it varies on device per device. The Zen DAC is more on the fully warm side in my book, while the Signature lies in the middle of neutral warm.

It may be something to do with that.

I have the BC3 and it's a great add-on to our Signature and Diablo. Pretty much allows me to go Bluetooth and use the devices as an amp in my car with full bells and whistles as far as LDAC and the usual jazz to get the most out of it.

Anyway to connect the signature as a dac to two nearfield speakers and a subwoofer ?

I haven't but I am sure someone has around these parts.

First, I want to leave a big Thank You to iFi's support people!

I, unfortunately, experienced some troubles with my iDSD Signature recently. These problems were quite bad in my case because they limited the overall usability of the product. So I contacted iFi's support team through the website and they helped me out as best they possibly could with my questions and concerns, and told me the next steps I needed to take. Always super nice and easy to talk to the people there as well! Of all the similar service-related experiences I've ever had, I'd rate iFi support very, very high on that list! Kind of weird in a sense, that "I actually feel like I was talking to an intelligent and understanding fellow human being", would be among the highest praise I can give, but it really is! And that's truly saying something about the excellent service quality iFi provides (or reflecting how truly awful and frustrating these things can be in the worst cases! ).

I don't know how it possibly could have been resolved better in the end! Now I have a new unit being shipped out to me and yeah.... no problems, and it went fast. Thanks! I thought I'd be without my iDSD for a long time while they attempted to make repairs to the unit, but no, they went the extra step and offered to replace the unit right away! How awesome is that, like really?

Look, I mean I have a big brand electronics shop close by where I live, I am a club member there as well with so much money spent there (too much... ). When my Sony WF-1000XM3's "had issues" a while back they offered to have them sent to their workshop to be repaired. That's great! But they did this a total of 5X (!!) times before they finally conceded that they probably weren't going to be able to fix them on the sixth try either.... I remember picking the earbuds up for the 4:th time and arriving home to realize, for the 5th time, that they're still busted. Returning to the store and having the same discussion as the last four times I was there for the same exact thing and they offer to send it... away... again... for a week... or two... And I be like: "goddamn can't you people just... ohh...!! "

Anyway. Thanks!

Of course! Appreciate the feedback and happy to be of service as a fellow human, which we always strive for.

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

I would also appreciate it if IFI would describe the available firmware a bit better. I have the following 5.x version firmwares available, but what do they actually mean, and which should I use (all text below is taken from IFI's download page):

• Firmware 5.3c – GTO Filter / MQA / DSD256 (Sub-version)
  • Release date: September 10, 2018
  • All PCM LED colours will be the same colour due to GTO filter. GTO filter which upsamples USB audio. MQA, DSD256 (Windows), DSD128 (Mac), 384kHz. SPDIF output disabled (on USB to SPDIF capable units). No GTO for SPDIF signal. No DSD512. No 768kHz.
• Firmware 5.3 – MQA / DSD256 (Cookies & Cream)
  • Release date: March 27, 2018
  • Full MQA major code optimisation important.
• Firmware 5.2 – DSD512 (Limoncello – Subversion 5.2A & 5.2B)
  • Release date: May 13, 2016
  • Fixed issues surrounding DoP standard; including ‘clicks’ when changing tracks and sonic differences to native DSD.
    Small code optimisations from previous firmwares.

Even the release dates seem questionable. The contents of the 5.3c download were modified in 02/2021, not 2018.
I don't use DSD, so that would seem to rule out 5.2.
I do use Tidal on a PC and via UAPP on Android, so should I use 5.3 or 5.3c?
I've also checked out the MQA instructions, but they don't really help.
If I enable MQA rendering in the Tidal desktop application the LED turns magenta (with both 5.3 and 5.3c IIRC).
With MQA rendering disabled in the Tidal application the LED stays green when MQA content is played.
The MQA instructions are unclear since the decoding instructions show the iDSD Neo which indicates MQA on it's display, but how about with the Signature's LED?

Also, how do these different firmwares affect what the filter switch does?

We appreciate the feedback, I would be happy to ask the team if we have more in-depth descriptions as well as more info in regards to the filter switches.

 

[Knee Deep In Epoxy]

I just got my Signature and am loving the sound so far but am also so confused about the firmware updates from reading this thread.

I've checked the firmware download page and it says I can get 5.2. Why is 7.x not available to me?

It's a very odd system