iFi audio iDSD Diablo - A portable reference done our way!

[Thorsten Loesch]

Company culture like that on releasing products with an external design and marketing that touted "improvements" and "latest flagship product" but internally barely changed make it sounds like the practice of selling snake oil in Audio can happen to other product categories as well...

Well it's hardly limited to iFi, I mean Apple made a thriving business on this model and many others before. So I would not blame iFi's management for trying to emulate this business model.

Over the time since ifi started a lot of goodwill accumulated through hard work, good interactions with customers, good support and also some products that were not totally terrible and relatively fairly priced. All of this is hard work and profits are modest. Still, it gave ifi a solid foundation with seven figure turnover and gross margins ~ 30%.

My view was that this foundation should be maintained, products should see improvements while keeping the "sound fundamentals" (pun intended) intact and the focus should be on products where iFi's approach could add value and to keep clear and limited product lines with a focus on quality and to improve marketing of such products.

Alas, my view was in the minority. So ifi took a different route.

@Thorsten Loesch very interesting insight in the company, I had a similar suspicion of lazy product development and greed taking over at IFI - when they released the iPhono Black label at double the cost of the iPhono 2, with what seemed to me very very similar design (but some improvements).

The iPhono Black label uses the exact same circuit design and PCB as the iPhono 3 / iPhono Black Label.

Similar to the iDSD Black Label, both active and passive parts are uprated, new quieter (Zetex vs On-Semi) transistors for the MC Pre-Pre lowered noise, as did the uprated Op-Amp.

The original iPhono was designed for 300 USD Price point, the iPhono 2 was a significant upgrade for 100 Bux more and was fair. The parts upgrade that made the iP 2 into the iP3 was worth an extra 100 Bux on top, like was done for the iDSD BL vs original.

When I saw the Red label and Signature releases it was like a smack in the face - not only did they cut a bunch of features out, they priced them much higher for what seemed like bit of a rehash of the old micro black.

The "red label" and "signature" really do not, in my personal view justify a price premium over the BL.

I notice that even iFi seems to feel that the "red label" is overpriced and try to soften the impact and possible criticism by including lots of accessories (perhaps overstock that did not sell so well?).

Honestly, the way this worked overall left me bewildered and literally gobsmacked.

The forward looking product for me is the Gryphon from iFi - it offered something new that they haven't done before; a proper portable swiss army knife with tech from the xdsd with line ins/out/bluetooth/you name it and a good sound quality (similar to their xdsd, but still I thought a little better sounding).

The Gryphon is to the best I can tell literally a copy-paste merge of the xCAN and xDSD minus the headphone Amp on the xDSD. I know the chinese employee who did this work. Sadly, the "Gryphon" as a result misses out on a fair few opportunities.

It is what ifi did with my "leftovers", not the product I had intended.

The Gryphon as nice as it is, for the price, has quite terrible noise/hiss when the volume goes up, much more so than 80% of my other similar devices - but at least it offers a tonne of features, a nice sound sig, is portable, looks sleek and modern with nice display, has volume that works with no imbalance like resistor ladder (from xdsd).

Yes. It was not really designed as an optimised single system, instead it is concatenating two different devices into one box without actually any optimisation.

It could have been designed correctly to have noise in the region 2uV (-114dBV) unbalanced for the HP Amp, low gain, -6dB Volume, using exactly the same parts and structure, just optimised. With the DAC SNR 114dB this would have matched the noise. To give an idea, it means that with a volume setting on Campfire Andromeda that would produce 130dB SPL peaks (which is extremely loud) would have had an absolute noisefloor of 16dB(A).

What is more, I had in mind an "iEMatch" derivative that would have been kept inside the negative feedback loop (so it only reduces noise, no effect on output impedance) that would be switched in automagically at low volume settings and would bring much improved IEM compatibility without the need for user interaction.

Thus with a -12dB volume setting (0.5V @ 0dBFS SE) the noise would have been dropped another 12dB, to 0.5uV (-126dBV).

Plus I had intended to design in parallel a functionally parallel device based on the Audio circuitry of the micro's, so parallel software etc. could have been used, maximising development efficiency (two for the price of one, kind of). Again, this was not greenlighted before I left.

And while there were some links to iFi as I did a few small jobs on contract (like tuning for Zen Signature) they failed to offer me anything approaching market rate to do the job as external consultant, at a time when others were willing a to pay a premium, to help them replace unavailable special function single vendor Chips that got hit by Chipageddon with generica, so I did not take the job.

They completely dropped the ball with their Micro series, instead of properly revising them (xdsd volume control), they tweaked things a bit and slapped on different paints.

The rest launched so far, minus Uno and the two "Stream" are still products in early prototyping stage when I left or directly based on previous designs with minimal changes. Even the latest, greatest "Phantom" Roll Royce of all Headphone Amplifiers appear to be a copy/paste merge of the Pro iCAN and the Pro iESL, with a simple rotary switch to set the adjustable bias replaced by "SD Cards" and computer control.

Thor

 

[damascato]

So are you saying in a nutshell that the Diablo is half rubbish or just that it’s not an original design?

 

[Baten]

, with a simple rotary switch to set the adjustable bias replaced by "SD Cards" and computer control.

The horror.

 

[BS5711]

So are you saying in a nutshell that the Diablo is half rubbish or just that it’s not an original design?

In my opinion we as consumers should judge it by what it does and if it has a feature set that suits our needs.

For me, I very much like my Diablo and don’t really care how it came to be or what it might otherwise have been.

It sounds great, has a ton of power but a low noise floor, has the features I want, I don’t really have a desire for it to have more features, I don’t want bluetooth and my unit has no channel imbalance and I prefer the volume pot over the approach taken on the Gryphon.

For my taste the Gryphon almost has to much going on, I could easily get by without a lot of what it can do.

 

[damascato]

In my opinion we as consumers should judge it by what it does and if it has a feature set that suits our needs.

For me, I very much like my Diablo and don’t really care how it came to be or what it might otherwise have been.

It sounds great, has a ton of power but a low noise floor, has the features I want, I don’t really have a desire for it to have more features, I don’t want bluetooth and my unit has no channel imbalance and I prefer the volume pot over the approach taken on the Gryphon.

For my taste the Gryphon almost has to much going on, I could easily get by without a lot of what it can do.Y

For my taste the gryphon has too much going on too. And sounds sterile.

My Diablo has channel imbalance but only at super low volumes, then it disappears.

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

So are you saying in a nutshell that the Diablo is half rubbish or just that it’s not an original design?

The Red Label / Diablo is a design meant for 2017 release and even then was showing that it was based on a design already 3 years+ old at the time.

In it's own right it is a decent product with many limitations and some unnecessary problems (volume control imbalance), which in around 2017 were in the process being addressed.

The entire digital half is essentially identical with all other iDSD micro (the changed USB processor did not change the fundamental design). The Headphone Amplifier is a different design compared to the iDSD micro/signature, but retains the potentiometer with the balance issue, made worse by changes to QC processes. Other than that, within the limitations imposed on me, I made it as good a product as I was able to.

That said, releasing the unit in 2021 with these issues, despite having released previous products that solved them seems at least unnecessarily compromised. And many possible improvements that exist in other products are not present, including aptX/LDAC Bluetooth, DSD/MQA over SPDIF .

Personally I prefer the Black Label, Zen Signature Stack and xDSD (depending on use) but would have much rather have had the upgraded product that was never developed instead of all of them.

If you find the features, performance and compromises acceptable, at the asking price, then it will be a good product for your use. If not, well, then it's not, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Thor

 

[emilsoft]

For my taste the gryphon has too much going on too. And sounds sterile.

My Diablo has channel imbalance but only at super low volumes, then it disappears.

No one is saying the Diablo is crap, it's more that it's way overpriced compared to the competition now (it's features/tech stack is a bit stuck in the past but asking modern price). Also it's power reserves are redundant - no one will blast anyway near the full volume what the Diablo offers, money would have been spent better cutting the power in half (far more than enough for 99% of HPs out there) and focusing on other parts like resistor ladder based volume, class A or tube or other innovations (some which they've already done in Gryphon).

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

For my taste the Gryphon almost has to much going on, I could easily get by without a lot of what it can do.

I always find this view curious.

The way I implement features like Crossfeed and Bass Boost are transparent, meaning if they are not used, they are simply switched out of circuit. They do not introduce additional stages etc., so switching them on, you get the function, switch off and it's gone. And it's just a single knob. It really, really does not make things busy.

Here xDSD front vs Diablo front:

REally "too much going on"?

Personally I find crossfeed non-negotiable and the bass boost was designed to work with many open back "audiophile" dynamic headphones that are bass shy (Sennheiser & AKG especially) and I find it allows me to appreciate these headphones much better.

The line in and perhaps even line out are in my view optional in a pocketable product. They could have been done the same way as in Diablo.

The digitally controlled resistor ladder volume control has a much better usable adjustment range than a pot, which is important in a portable as it's more likely to be paired with IEM's. But it also would work much better for a high power Headphone Amp. How does the saying go? "Power is nothing without control!"

Bluetooth? I find it very useful when I'm on the go. When in wired mode BT is completely shut off.

So I'd take a xDSD with a "Diablo" Amp that has crossfeed and bass boost restored and the Diablo/Black Label DAC section at a drop of the hat. I could retire my entire collection.

Of course, to each his own, if you are happier to absolutely not have these items, features and solutions and want it "Diablo" way, enjoy the music and have fun.

Thor

 

[Nick24JJ]

@Thorsten Loesch

Dear Sir,
Can you tell me a few words about how the Auto-Detection of the Impedance works on the iFi GO Pod? Or, how do you think that this mechanism works?
The GO Pod does not synergise well at all with my IMR Elan+
I have asked iFi Audio customer service, and the reps here, but they say it is proprietary technology and they are not willing to share anything!

One simple question, I have, please!

iFi Audio say:
To ensure its output perfectly matches the connected IEM, each pod auto-detects the IEM’s impedance and adjusts power accordingly. There are four settings – 16 ohms, 32 ohms, 64 ohms and 300 ohms – with the setting most appropriate to the connected IEM selected automatically.

Question: if I have an IEM with an impedance of 22 Ohms, will the GO Pod set the impedance to 16 Ohms to 32 Ohms or to something in-between?

Thank you!

 

[damascato]

What other products can compete with the Diablo in terms of power and sound quality these days (always talking about portable solutions)?

 

[BS5711]

I always find this view curious.

The way I implement features like Crossfeed and Bass Boost are transparent, meaning if they are not used, they are simply switched out of circuit. They do not introduce additional stages etc., so switching them on, you get the function, switch off and it's gone. And it's just a single knob. It really, really does not make things busy.

Here xDSD front vs Diablo front:



REally "too much going on"?

Personally I find crossfeed non-negotiable and the bass boost was designed to work with many open back "audiophile" dynamic headphones that are bass shy (Sennheiser & AKG especially) and I find it allows me to appreciate these headphones much better.

The line in and perhaps even line out are in my view optional in a pocketable product. They could have been done the same way as in Diablo.

The digitally controlled resistor ladder volume control has a much better usable adjustment range than a pot, which is important in a portable as it's more likely to be paired with IEM's. But it also would work much better for a high power Headphone Amp. How does the saying go? "Power is nothing without control!"

Bluetooth? I find it very useful when I'm on the go. When in wired mode BT is completely shut off.

So I'd take a xDSD with a "Diablo" Amp that has crossfeed and bass boost restored and the Diablo/Black Label DAC section at a drop of the hat. I could retire my entire collection.

Of course, to each his own, if you are happier to absolutely not have these items, features and solutions and want it "Diablo" way, enjoy the music and have fun.

Thor

I understand that the features have no detrimental effect if turned off but I simply like a minimalist approach to many things. That is a device that does what I want and does it well without additional bells and whistles that I don’t need and won’t use.

I have the Gryphon for occasions when I might want the features and the Diablo when I don’t. With the line in on the Diablo I can connect the two and have the features with the Diablo power and it’s other benefits.

That is simply my preference regardless if someone else does not understand that and wants everything but the kitchen sink even if they don’t use it all.

I also personally prefer the volume pot because of the shorter travel, I like to be able to go from listening volume to nothing in a literal flick of the wrist, I find it annoying to have wind the Gryphon’s volume wheel for what seems like a couple of full revolutions to turn it right down.

It was said that the “Red Label” was designed for the Chinese market, that is a lot of people that seem to think along the same lines as me even if for different reasons.

More isn’t always better it is sometimes just more.

 

[BS5711]

What other products can compete with the Diablo in terms of power and sound quality these days (always talking about portable solutions)?

Exactly, it may be that it could have been “more” or at least different but that doesn’t make what it is even remotely close to being bad.

We have a bit of insight which indicates that the Diablo is an extension of a 2017 era product but the same is possibly true for the competition, we just don’t have someone telling us about it.

In fact the highly regarded Chord Mojo 2 is a refinement of a 2015 product and it seems everyone thinks it is terrific. I still use an original Mojo and like it a lot. I wouldn’t buy a 2 because if the utterly ridiculous implementation of USB-C to suit the aging Poly that a tiny fraction of the Mojo 2 users have any interest in.

That is a case where a “feature” or compatibility results in what I perceive as a negative to the point I won’t even buy the product because I have no use for the “feature” despite that there is no technical downside to have a USB-C plug incorporated into a rubber foot !

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Can you tell me a few words about how the Auto-Detection of the Impedance works on the iFi GO Pod? Or, how do you think that this mechanism works?

I am not sure what iFi implemented there. The CS DAC used there has the ability to sense the headphone impedance. What happens after that is down to the programmer. The CS chip has almost infinite configuration and setup options.

I have no idea what ifi ended up implementing, I only did the very first cut of the hardware and did not write any firmware spec. Back when I worked on this, we would have probably done some listening tests to work it out.

I would also have specified the firmware with some form of "over-ride" for any such settings, so they can be manually selected.

The GO Pod does not synergise well at all with my IMR Elan+

In what way do you experience that?

I have asked iFi Audio customer service, and the reps here, but they say it is proprietary technology and they are not willing to share anything!

It's baked into the DAC Chip. Oh well, they would say that.

To ensure its output perfectly matches the connected IEM, each pod auto-detects the IEM’s impedance and adjusts power accordingly. There are four settings – 16 ohms, 32 ohms, 64 ohms and 300 ohms – with the setting most appropriate to the connected IEM selected automatically.

Question: if I have an IEM with an impedance of 22 Ohms, will the GO Pod set the impedance to 16 Ohms to 32 Ohms or to something in-between?

Good question. No idea. You really need to ask iFi.

From my viewpoint, only really the 300 Ohm + Mode needs to reconfigure the Headphone section of the Amp for "high output voltage and low current". Anything from 16 to 64 Ohm should probably use the same settings for the HP Amp, maybe there is an attempt to save power with some impedance's to get better battery life?

Thor

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

What other products can compete with the Diablo in terms of power and sound quality these days (always talking about portable solutions)?

Now that is just my personal view, but on sound quality, Black Label was to my ears preferred, but that is not an absolute judgement, but a relative one. I like a "tube" kind of sound, or perhaps a sound that is the sonic equivalent of an old Leitz Leica lense, with amazing colours but perhaps not the highest resolution and presence of smallest details.

Power, the only headphone I know where the Black Label struggles a bit are AKG K1000. Anything else it did more than well enough.

The red label / diablo had more power not because this power is needed, but it makes for easy marketing to say more Watt are more better.

Thor

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

I also personally prefer the volume pot because of the shorter travel, I like to be able to go from listening volume to nothing in a literal flick of the wrist, I find it annoying to have wind the Gryphon’s volume wheel for what seems like a couple of full revolutions to turn it right down.

Again, I do not know the Gryphon in detail.

The xDSD was programmed that faster you turned the volume wheel, the larger the steps per click, so when turning slowly, each click is 1dB while when turning really fast the steps became 3dB. When turning fast a single turn covered a much larger range than is usable on the Black Label or Red Label / Diablo.

It was said that the “Red Label” was designed for the Chinese market, that is a lot of people that seem to think along the same lines as me even if for different reasons.

It was stated that Asian (especially chinese) customers held the view that any product should sound "perfect" without any controls. It either sounds perfect with the headphone, or it is no good. Apparently the concept that Headphones are not perfect did not register.

More isn’t always better it is sometimes just more.

Well, the original iDSD micro design was aimed at a 400 USD price point and conceptually is a 2012..13 product. So my consideration was to design a product that would make headphones in an appropriate price bracket.

In effect that meant at the time Headphones like Sennheiser HD600 all the way to 800 and the like. The fact that it also did well with fat planars like early HiFiman's (e.g. HE-6) was more of a bonus.

Take a HD600 or even 800, put on crossfeed and bass boost and crank it up. You will not believe that these headphones can do bass or space like that.

Nowadays the market has changed a lot. If I put on Final D-8000 or Abyss Diana Bass boost is optional. For me, as long time and primarily speaker listener, crossfeed is not optional but essential.

Selectable digital filters? I did that mainly to offer "non-oversampling" as option. Later developments allowed filters to be implemented in the XMOS USB (and other) Digital Interface IC, so nowadays I'd probably design for "Transient Optimised" and have that as default, with a firmware flash for "non-oversampling" and "Transient Aligned" filter options.

Anyway, you like the results you are getting with your Diablo. So that makes me happy, at least my hard work was not in vain.

Enjoy the music.

Thor