iFi audio iDSD Diablo - A portable reference done our way!

[Thorsten Loesch]

We have a bit of insight which indicates that the Diablo is an extension of a 2017 era product

More a 2014 (initial release) product actually (original iDSD micro). And yes, many of the competition also come from older designs.

There are many hangovers of old designs.

Back when ifi introduced the "reversed" USB Socket with an A-Type plug for portables it was done to allow less of a plug/cable sticking out. Nowadays it is a total anachronism and I wish I had a nice USB-C socket instead.

Two actually, one which is "play & charge" or "just charge" and a second one which "play only, never charge", so I can plug my phone in without the unit charging from my phone battery.

Again, progress...

Thor

 

[Nick24JJ]

I am not sure what iFi implemented there. The CS DAC used there has the ability to sense the headphone impedance. What happens after that is down to the programmer. The CS chip has almost infinite configuration and setup options.

I have no idea what ifi ended up implementing, I only did the very first cut of the hardware and did not write any firmware spec. Back when I worked on this, we would have probably done some listening tests to work it out.

I would also have specified the firmware with some form of "over-ride" for any such settings, so they can be manually selected.



In what way do you experience that?



It's baked into the DAC Chip. Oh well, they would say that.



Good question. No idea. You really need to ask iFi.

From my viewpoint, only really the 300 Ohm + Mode needs to reconfigure the Headphone section of the Amp for "high output voltage and low current". Anything from 16 to 64 Ohm should probably use the same settings for the HP Amp, maybe there is an attempt to save power with some impedance's to get better battery life?

Thor

Thank you SO much for shedding some light into this matter! None of the reps is willing to talk about this, at all...

Do you happen to know, or to guess, which "Cirrus Logic MasterHIFI chips", as iFi calls them, might be inside the Go Pods? Two of them are there, one on each Pod, as iFi says.

The way I understand and feel that the GO Pod does not synergise well with my IMR Elan+ is that, when listening to a song, a WAV file even, the entire frequency spectrum sounds like CD-quality but a portion in the upper midrange or treble sounds like an old cassette playing... muffled/veiled/recessed. I suspect that there is an impedance skew, or something like that, something caused by that auto-detection and setting of the impedance.

I completely agree with you about an "over-ride" for any such settings!

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Thank you SO much for shedding some light into this matter! None of the reps is willing to talk about this, at all...

Do you happen to know, or to guess, which "Cirrus Logic MasterHIFI chips", as iFi calls them, might be inside the Go Pods? Two of them are there, one on each Pod, as iFi says.

Should be CS43131 or CS43198 (they are so close to identical, it doesn't really matter). And each chip used balanced out to the IEM.

The way I understand and feel that the GO Pod does not synergise well with my IMR Elan+ is that, when listening to a song, a WAV file even, the entire frequency spectrum sounds like CD-quality but a portion in the upper midrange or treble sounds like an old cassette playing... muffled/veiled/recessed. I suspect that there is an impedance skew, or something like that, something caused by that auto-detection and setting of the impedance.

Hmmm, I don't think the output impedance changes when the HP Amp and DAC full scale settings are adjusted.

What source are you using? Many smartphones nowadays come with some build in processing meant to make cheap earbuds or BT speakers sound better".

I found that in reality they sound worse, until the offending DSP effect is turned off. I found the Dolby Atmos for Headphones in Huawei phones especially egregious. It may be worthwhile looking into the deep recesses of sound settings and turn any and all processing off.

Thor

 

[Nick24JJ]

Should be CS43131 or CS43198 (they are so close to identical, it doesn't really matter). And each chip used balanced out to the IEM.



Hmmm, I don't think the output impedance changes when the HP Amp and DAC full scale settings are adjusted.

What source are you using? Many smartphones nowadays come with some build in processing meant to make cheap earbuds or BT speakers sound better".

I found that in reality they sound worse, until the offending DSP effect is turned off. I found the Dolby Atmos for Headphones in Huawei phones especially egregious. It may be worthwhile looking into the deep recesses of sound settings and turn any and all processing off.

Thor

Okay, I see! I am using my smartphone, the Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra. I have not activated any particular sound settings. Is there any setting in the Developer Options I should look for?

What is your opinion about the output power of the GO Pod? Some people told me that IMR Elan+ needs lots of power.
Here you can see what iFi Audio says.
Do you think the Go Pod has sufficient power?

Thank you!

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Okay, I see! I am using my smartphone, the Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra. I have not activated any particular sound settings. Is there any setting in the Developer Options I should look for?

Not developer options, find the Dolby Atmos setting and turn that off.

What is your opinion about the output power of the GO Pod? Some people told me that IMR Elan+ needs lots of power.

I cannot easily find independent tests of the Elan+ that list sensitivity. But the non + Elan was rated as 99dB/mW or 117dB/1V but was clocked by RAA as ~ 130dB/1V.

I do not think that ANY IEM needs a lot of power. Do you need to turn up the volume very high?

Here you can see what iFi Audio says.
Do you think the Go Pod has sufficient power?

After reading the notes, well, that automatic adjustment seems not that well thought out, if you ask me.

In principle, the CS43131 can output quite a bit of power into 16 ohm balanced. The maximum current should reach 85mA and the output voltage 2.8V with a 33 Ohm load under all conditions.

This should give around 120mW into 16 ohm and 240mW into 32 ohm. I have seen these figures for other CS43131 based balanced "dongle" DAC's.

It seems the "auto misadjustment system" gimps output power at less than half of what is possible.

It should still not be too limiting though.

Now all this is guesswork. My best guess.

If you need a reliable answer, you will have to talk to ifi. There just too many unknowns here for me to do any better than "good guess".

Thor

 

[gikigill]

For my taste the gryphon has too much going on too. And sounds sterile.

My Diablo has channel imbalance but only at super low volumes, then it disappears.

You're probably the first person ever to call the Gryphon sterile. I own the original IDsd, iDsd Micro BL, XCan, iCan Pro and the Gryphon and the Gryphon very much has the ifi signature sound which is far from sterile.

 

[Sebastien Chiu]

Company culture like that on releasing products with an external design and marketing that touted "improvements" and "latest flagship product" but internally barely changed make it sounds like the practice of selling snake oil in Audio can happen to other product categories as well...

| will not comment on the latter "suggestions" and only speak from my personal experience.

Company culture is the reason why I left - just read their Indeed page for an idea: https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Ifi-Audio-2/reviews

I can sadly confirm a lot (and worse) of these are true. Left feeling undervalued, undermined, and underpaid.

Most of the good people during my time have now left. I

It's more of a running joke for my niche industry community and me now, but during the time it honestly felt horrible that my first full-time job post-grad ended up that way. The amount of things I went through managing threads for them (that resulted in personal attacks and death threats from crazy customers, for example) is laughable - mostly in terms in the support I received back from the company post event.

The new teams I work for are entirely the opposite. I'm much happier doing my own thing now than being controlled by one entity. It also resulted in a more positive impact on the community at large.

@Thorsten Loesch is a breath of fresh air with the honesty here - thanks for coming in and sharing all this valuable info before iFi asks all of this to be deleted.

(I will be pleasantly surprised if they don't).

 

[damascato]

Where can I find a list of firmware and what sound signatures they have (if that does even exist)?

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Where can I find a list of firmware and what sound signatures they have (if that does even exist)?

There are two fundamental Firmware "blocks" for Xmos, for the 100 series chips (up to 5.XX at least while I was involved) and 200 series chips (no direct involvement from me, versions 7.XX).

For "main line" products we used keep a unified Firmware (same Firmware works in all products). This means firmware upgrades benefit older products and can even add new features through firmware upgrades as these are developed.

So the 2013 released iDSD nano could be upgraded via software to allow DSD256 on Mac & Linux or to enable MQA Rendering.

I believe this policy of allowing older customer devices to benefit from updated firmware options has now been abandoned by ifi.

For the Zen DAC some "V1" units were shipped with V2 hardware, but a hardware lock that prevented them from receiving new features present in the later version firmware for V2.

Pro iDSD is completely separate and as a result a bit of a disaster. Don't ask...

There should be no "sound signature", other than the digital filter sound signature for the Transient Optimised filter option with different firmwares.

Firmware variants generally related to different features, like maximum DSD speed, MQA Rendering and adding the Transient Optimised digital filter. These variants are designated by Letter suffixes.

Not all firmware generations have these feature "sub variants". They came to be when new features became possible, that needed to disable certain functions on existing hardware (e.g. MQA disables SPDIF as the processing power dedicated to SPDIF out is needed for MQA) or had possible incompatibilities.

For example to get DSD256 on Mac we needed to enable 768kHz PCM on the iDSD nano. Sadly the hardware on the nano could not handle 768kHz and 786kHz would be muted. And Mac as well Windows default to the highest available sample rate, so if you plugged in the DAC you needed to manually set the sample rate to get sound.

Clearly a case for a "subversion", for those who are DSD enthusiasts and run on Mac's (or windows 10 without ASIO Driver).

Minor revision are designated by the number after the dot. These are generally best seen as "Bugfixes".

The major Version numbers are generally the XMOS Code base version (XMOS supplies a code foundation to chip customers).

So, for example V3.3 is based on XMOS Code base V3 and is the fourth Bugfix release of V3 (minor versions start X.0X). No subversions were available on V3.
Version 5.30 is is based on XMOS Code base V5 and is the fourth Bugfix release of V5. The "0" subversions denotes it is the mainstream firmware shipped ex factory and appropriate for most customers.

Alternative subversions use the exact same code but are compiled using different feature option settings and thus are the same firmwares, just with different feature sets.

For products with XU200 XMOS (V7.X and on) I have no experience or suggestions, except to note that 7.X is a whole new ballgame with a new chip and wholly nee XMOS Code base.

So earlier revisions of V7 are bound to exhibit many undocumented features. You can read the various threads about that sort of thing.

As a rule, the latest firmware revision for XU100 devices should be the most stable, most bug free with most features, at least up my departure, so use these.

I am not a "Fan" of MQA. But if you are and you need the pink light for your mental well being, select the MQA version. That will be 5.30 or 5.3C to have the Transient Optimised filter.

Otherwise, if your product allows "non-oversampling" (aka "Bit perfect" in iSpeak) use the non MQA firmware, using the "non-oversampling" setting.

In my view this is preferred all around including for MQA Rendering. I'm still under NDA with MQA, so I cannot tell you why, you'll have to take my word for it.

So use V5.20 or 5.2B on all iDSD micro variants with the XU100 chipset and for iDAC 2.

You also need 5.2x to get SPDIF out on products that have this and finally, if you believe that MQA is the work of the Devil and anything touched by MQA is terminally tainted, 5.2X is the firmware for you, with all products.

For all products that do not offer the selection of "bit perfect" use 5.3C to get the Transient Optimised filter.

That's my personal take, as always, listen with your own ears and pick what suits you.

Thor

 

[Baten]

@Thorsten Loesch is a breath of fresh air with the honesty here - thanks for coming in and sharing all this valuable info before iFi asks all of this to be deleted.
(I will be pleasantly surprised if they don't).

Let's hope not.

 

[damascato]

There are two fundamental Firmware "blocks" for Xmos, for the 100 series chips (up to 5.XX at least while I was involved) and 200 series chips (no direct involvement from me, versions 7.XX).

For "main line" products we used keep a unified Firmware (same Firmware works in all products). This means firmware upgrades benefit older products and can even add new features through firmware upgrades as these are developed.

So the 2013 released iDSD nano could be upgraded via software to allow DSD256 on Mac & Linux or to enable MQA Rendering.

I believe this policy of allowing older customer devices to benefit from updated firmware options has now been abandoned by ifi.

For the Zen DAC some "V1" units were shipped with V2 hardware, but a hardware lock that prevented them from receiving new features present in the later version firmware for V2.

Pro iDSD is completely separate and as a result a bit of a disaster. Don't ask...

There should be no "sound signature", other than the digital filter sound signature for the Transient Optimised filter option with different firmwares.

Firmware variants generally related to different features, like maximum DSD speed, MQA Rendering and adding the Transient Optimised digital filter. These variants are designated by Letter suffixes.

Not all firmware generations have these feature "sub variants". They came to be when new features became possible, that needed to disable certain functions on existing hardware (e.g. MQA disables SPDIF as the processing power dedicated to SPDIF out is needed for MQA) or had possible incompatibilities.

For example to get DSD256 on Mac we needed to enable 768kHz PCM on the iDSD nano. Sadly the hardware on the nano could not handle 768kHz and 786kHz would be muted. And Mac as well Windows default to the highest available sample rate, so if you plugged in the DAC you needed to manually set the sample rate to get sound.

Clearly a case for a "subversion", for those who are DSD enthusiasts and run on Mac's (or windows 10 without ASIO Driver).

Minor revision are designated by the number after the dot. These are generally best seen as "Bugfixes".

The major Version numbers are generally the XMOS Code base version (XMOS supplies a code foundation to chip customers).

So, for example V3.3 is based on XMOS Code base V3 and is the fourth Bugfix release of V3 (minor versions start X.0X). No subversions were available on V3.
Version 5.30 is is based on XMOS Code base V5 and is the fourth Bugfix release of V5. The "0" subversions denotes it is the mainstream firmware shipped ex factory and appropriate for most customers.

Alternative subversions use the exact same code but are compiled using different feature option settings and thus are the same firmwares, just with different feature sets.

For products with XU200 XMOS (V7.X and on) I have no experience or suggestions, except to note that 7.X is a whole new ballgame with a new chip and wholly nee XMOS Code base.

So earlier revisions of V7 are bound to exhibit many undocumented features. You can read the various threads about that sort of thing.

As a rule, the latest firmware revision for XU100 devices should be the most stable, most bug free with most features, at least up my departure, so use these.

I am not a "Fan" of MQA. But if you are and you need the pink light for your mental well being, select the MQA version. That will be 5.30 or 5.3C to have the Transient Optimised filter.

Otherwise, if your product allows "non-oversampling" (aka "Bit perfect" in iSpeak) use the non MQA firmware, using the "non-oversampling" setting.

In my view this is preferred all around including for MQA Rendering. I'm still under NDA with MQA, so I cannot tell you why, you'll have to take my word for it.

So use V5.20 or 5.2B on all iDSD micro variants with the XU100 chipset and for iDAC 2.

You also need 5.2x to get SPDIF out on products that have this and finally, if you believe that MQA is the work of the Devil and anything touched by MQA is terminally tainted, 5.2X is the firmware for you, with all products.

For all products that do not offer the selection of "bit perfect" use 5.3C to get the Transient Optimised filter.

That's my personal take, as always, listen with your own ears and pick what suits you.

Thor

Amazing mate, thanks for the clarity and extensive explanation.

Just to understand more in depth, since I’m a newbie with the Diablo: the idsd firmwares you’re mentioning are all compatible with my Diablo?

 

[BS5711]

Amazing mate, thanks for the clarity and extensive explanation.

Just to understand more in depth, since I’m a newbie with the Diablo: the idsd firmwares you’re mentioning are all compatible with my Diablo?

https://ifi-audio.com/support/download-hub/

 

[Nick24JJ]

Not developer options, find the Dolby Atmos setting and turn that off.

I have found these settings on my S23 Ultra, first time I see them, they all are disabled, I have never touched them.

I cannot easily find independent tests of the Elan+ that list sensitivity. But the non + Elan was rated as 99dB/mW or 117dB/1V but was clocked by RAA as ~ 130dB/1V.

I do not think that ANY IEM needs a lot of power. Do you need to turn up the volume very high?

No, not at all. To give you an idea, I am using my Elan+ with my FiiO BTR7, 4.4mm balanced. The max volume on this device is 60 and I am listening to volume= 18 - 20, max

After reading the notes, well, that automatic adjustment seems not that well thought out, if you ask me.

In principle, the CS43131 can output quite a bit of power into 16 ohm balanced. The maximum current should reach 85mA and the output voltage 2.8V with a 33 Ohm load under all conditions.

This should give around 120mW into 16 ohm and 240mW into 32 ohm. I have seen these figures for other CS43131 based balanced "dongle" DAC's.

It seems the "auto misadjustment system" gimps output power at less than half of what is possible.

It should still not be too limiting though.

Now all this is guesswork. My best guess.

If you need a reliable answer, you will have to talk to ifi. There just too many unknowns here for me to do any better than "good guess".

Thor

Thank you so very much for all the invaluable information you are providing! Believe it or not, you are the first person I have found who is able to speak a bit about the GO Pod!
I have tried to talk to iFi Audio, both by opening tickets at their customer service and by asking the Reps/Sponsors here, in the respective thread. I am getting no answers and it also takes them ages to reply.

For example, I have asked about the model of the Cirrus Logic DAC. They said: We cannot disclose this information.
I've asked them about this mismatch, the bad synergy, between the GO Pod and the IMR Elan+ They said: buy one of our bundles...
I have asked them about a toggle ON/OFF button to turn the auto-detection of the impedance, OFF. They said: we will think about it.
It took them 3 to 4 weeks to give me the dimensions of the interior of the GO Pod case, when the GO Pod by design is meant to be used with various IEMs, so this info should be in the User Manual, already.
I have also asked them about a simple explanation of how the auto-detection mechanism of the impedance works. They said, we cannot say anything, it is proprietary.

So, I am grateful to you for being the ONLY person who can explain to me a bit how the GO Pod, for which I have paid £400, works.

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Let's hope not.

They can, it's already saved to the wayback machine...

Thor

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Amazing mate, thanks for the clarity and extensive explanation.

Just to understand more in depth, since I’m a newbie with the Diablo: the idsd firmwares you’re mentioning are all compatible with my Diablo?

I think the Diablo only shipped with XU200 XMOS and can only use Version 7.XX.

There seems no longer a "non-MQA" edition nor one that does not use on board upsampling in XMOS. Also, you do not have any digital filter selection on the Diablo, meaning there is nothing much to choose.

As said, early 7.XX firmware versions seemed buggy, so just use the latest version:

https://ifi-audio.com/support/download-hub/

You can check your driver version in the ASIO control Panel (Windows with driver installed). If you see a lower version than 7.4X you should upgrade. For the Diablo I'd (blind - not tested, I have no iFi product with XU200 at hand) probably recommend 7.4C, but try 7.40 as well, the two digital filter options will sound a bit different.

Note, I do not provide free tech support for iFi products that iFi makes profit on and fails to pay royalties, just trying to help customers that I feel are not treated that well by iFi.

Thor