[491838]

I don't think Sonarworks EQs to Harman. Their profiles always sounded warmer to me.

Also, Harman tested their target on hundreds of people and most of them preferred their target. It definitely plays well with my hearing.

 

[JohnYang1997]

That makes more sense. So there's still the problem of the missing 5-8K on the ER4 then which is apparent when I compare them to full size headphones EQ-ed to Harman.

That's quite the opposite. That's exactly why I don't like Harman target.
Which is more correct?
Only way that you can do yourself is to compare directly to eq'd speakers. Then you will realize how accurately er4 represents the high frequency of the real speakers.
How?
It's an error done in Harman's research. The cause is the discrepancy between human hearing and measurement equipment. The Harman target is actually highly highly smoothed which you can't find the reason by itself. If you actually measure and compare yourself, you will notice that usually there is a boost around 8-10khz and a dip after 10k. When smoothed, the excess energy at 8-10k got spread to 6k and filled the dip after 10k. So eventually what you get is excess energy around 6khz and too much roll off after 10khz.
So what you heard is exactly why er4 has been superior and will be superior for very long period of time.

 

[csglinux]

That's quite the opposite. That's exactly why I don't like Harman target.
Which is more correct?
Only way that you can do yourself is to compare directly to eq'd speakers. Then you will realize how accurately er4 represents the high frequency of the real speakers.
How?
It's an error done in Harman's research. The cause is the discrepancy between human hearing and measurement equipment. The Harman target is actually highly highly smoothed which you can't find the reason by itself. If you actually measure and compare yourself, you will notice that usually there is a boost around 8-10khz and a dip after 10k. When smoothed, the excess energy at 8-10k got spread to 6k and filled the dip after 10k. So eventually what you get is excess energy around 6khz and too much roll off after 10khz.
So what you heard is exactly why er4 has been superior and will be superior for very long period of time.

I suspect there's simply a blank in their target curve right now. Since they don't know what happens at or beyond 10 kHz, my guess is that they just chose to roll it off. As you say, their target shows no boost around 10 kHz.

 

[491838]

I just retried the ER4 with the big triple flange tips and yeah...the LCD-2 Fazor obliterate them with oratory/Harman EQ in terms of coherency and resemblance to an actual speaker in a room. The dead treble above 10K for Harman is not much of an issue for me personally. I guess I could take more treble air up there but when I actually listen to modern music I don't find that I miss anything at all.

The ER4 has treble inconsistencies on my ears, mids sound too warm probably because they rise too early at the upper mid peak, 10K is a bit sharp and upper treble above it definitely has a sheen to it which made it seem a bit more detailed than my LCD 2 lol at first but only because it boosts that region.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I just retried the ER4 with the big triple flange tips and yeah...the LCD-2 Fazor obliterate them with oratory/Harman EQ in terms of coherency and resemblance to an actual speaker in a room. The dead treble above 10K for Harman is not much of an issue for me personally. I guess I could take more treble air up there but when I actually listen to modern music I don't find that I miss anything at all.

The ER4 has treble inconsistencies on my ears, mids sound too warm probably because they rise too early at the upper mid peak, 10K is a bit sharp and upper treble above it definitely has a sheen to it which made it seem a bit more detailed than my LCD 2 lol at first but only because it boosts that region.

If 10k is a bit sharp you are simply not inserting deep enough. The volume in the ear canal will interfere with the peak frequency. You need to push it from 10khz to 13khz. So go deeper.

 

[csglinux]

I just retried the ER4 with the big triple flange tips and yeah...the LCD-2 Fazor obliterate them with oratory/Harman EQ in terms of coherency and resemblance to an actual speaker in a room. The dead treble above 10K for Harman is not much of an issue for me personally.

I may be wrong, but I don't think the Harman folks would claim that 10+ kHz treble roll-off is necessarily a correct, preferred profile. I think they just lack reliable data points up there. The problem is insertion depth, eartip type, size, shape, etc., all have a massive effect on the treble. One setup could vary dramatically from person to person.

 

[491838]

It might just be the timbre of the driver that makes the treble seem sharp. It kinda has a bit of a metallic tinge to it.

The treble above 10K is definitely emphasized on the ER4. On the song "tonite" by LCD Soundsystem I hear the 4(?) notes playing in the beginning of the song quite clearly but they're not very audible on speakers or my EQ-ed LCD-2. That region (which sounds like high treble) is unnaturally boosted on the ER4.

 

[JohnYang1997]

It might just be the timbre of the driver that makes the treble seem sharp. It kinda has a bit of a metallic tinge to it.

The treble above 10K is definitely emphasized on the ER4. On the song "tonite" by LCD Soundsystem I hear the 4(?) notes playing in the beginning of the song quite clearly but they're not very audible on speakers or my EQ-ed LCD-2. That region (which sounds like high treble) is unnaturally boosted on the ER4.

Definitely not. Er4 is deisgned to utilize the canal resonant frequency to achieve flat high frequency response even after 10khz all the way to 16khz.
use this:
https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
and set volume to 10% and sweep after 7khz to 14khz. Insert deeper until it's flat.

 

[JohnYang1997]

If you cannot insert deep enough, I suggest to perform the bi flange mod. Use the large 3 flange tip, and cut around the largest flange. Then you have two smaller flanges only with the stem intact. This way you can insert deeper.

 

[Max Choiral]

I just retried the ER4 with the big triple flange tips and yeah...the LCD-2 Fazor obliterate them with oratory/Harman EQ in terms of coherency and resemblance to an actual speaker in a room. The dead treble above 10K for Harman is not much of an issue for me personally. I guess I could take more treble air up there but when I actually listen to modern music I don't find that I miss anything at all.

The ER4 has treble inconsistencies on my ears, mids sound too warm probably because they rise too early at the upper mid peak, 10K is a bit sharp and upper treble above it definitely has a sheen to it which made it seem a bit more detailed than my LCD 2 lol at first but only because it boosts that region.

Mids sound too warm because you're using XR version exclusively, no? Not sure about whether treble is boosted in XR.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Mids sound too warm because you're using XR version exclusively, no?

How did I not think of this... XR is indeed warmer. Adding PtoS cable for it is necessary.

 

[Blackwoof]

Mids sound too warm because you're using XR version exclusively, no? Not sure about whether treble is boosted in XR.

The mids should be flat on both the SR/XR versions past 200Hz?. The 4XR has more 12k than SR has going by charts.

 

[JohnYang1997]

The mids should be flat on both the SR/XR versions past 200Hz?. The 4XR has more 12k than SR has going by charts.

XR has increased response below 800hz and significant increase below 500hz. Also the 6-8khz is more recessed than SR.

 

[chinmie]

How did I not think of this... XR is indeed warmer. Adding PtoS cable for it is necessary.

This. I almost always use the ER4XR with the PtoS adapter.

 

[dr cornelius]

How did I not think of this... XR is indeed warmer. Adding PtoS cable for it is necessary.

This. I almost always use the ER4XR with the PtoS adapter.

I have a pair of ER4XR's - how does the adapter affect the sound? What is inside the adapter?
Thx!