[vapman]

  A question here, my HF5 has just the right amount of bass for my needs. Would the ER4XR add too much bass? And would the ER4SR be less or equal the amount of bass compared to the HF5?
Cause I'm really happy with the bass response from my HF5, just looking for a more refined/detailed sound from my IEMs

Go for XR!

 

[CraftyClown]

So here's a quick question for you my Ety loving chums; Has anyone tried EQing their SRs to sound more like the XRs with any success?

 

[ClieOS]

  So here's a quick question for you my Ety loving chums; Has anyone tried EQing their SRs to sound more like the XRs with any success?

 
Tried that when I was auditioning both SR and XR in store with the ShanLing M1. It did get very close but not totally identical. For my own taste, it is good enough just for getting a taste of XR on SR.

 

[CraftyClown]

   
Tried that when I was auditioning both SR and XR in store with the ShanLing M1. It did get very close but not totally identical. For my own taste, it is good enough just for getting a taste of XR on SR.

 
Cheers mate, I got my SRs today and I am head over heels in love with them.
 
I am also on the SR/XR uk tour, which I believe is stopping at me next so I should be able to make a comparison.
 
Did I mention I'm in love with these SRs?  

 

[dlbernau]

Apparently Etymotic will issue a credit of around $100 if you trade in your HF3 on a new er4xr/sr. Anyone have any experience doing this?

 

[Happytalk]

Interesting read. I also have the feeling that the ER-4P has a very nice, smooth tuning and that its overall balance is to die for, even compared to the newer SR/XR. 

Imho, on some tracks, the XR sounds like it's trying too hard in the bass department, which to me is way more unpleasant than the slightly clinical bass on the SR.

Not to diss the XR though, I do like mine although I still prefer the SR (and the PT to some extent).

I was able to get a similar sound signature to the er4p with my er4s with bass boost/eq. The er4p always felt more fatiguing, whereas the er4s with bass boost/eq, reached the same balance bit did not feel fatiguing. So I still am walk around with a little eq. I wonder if the xr would be that much different than my results.

 

[CraftyClown]

Do most people really feel the bass of the SR is that clinical? or as some even say deficient?
 
Is this not just people becoming used to the increased bass found on most IEMs? The SR is a fairly accurate representation of the entire frequency range as I understand it.
 
That said, using the right tips made a remarkable difference. Swapping the small blues for the large whites was essential for me.

 

[ClieOS]

  Do most people really feel the bass of the SR is that clinical? or as some even say deficient?
 
Is this not just people becoming used to the increased bass found on most IEMs? The SR is a fairly accurate representation of the entire frequency range as I understand it.
 
That said, using the right tips made a remarkable difference. Swapping the small blues for the large whites was essential for me.

 
You might want to google up 'the missing 6dB'.

 

[CraftyClown]

   
You might want to google up 'the missing 6dB'.

​Fascinating. So I had a little read up on the 'missing 6dB Paradox' and as I understand it, the problem could be eliminated through a special earphone coupling system.
 
Are you implying that there is no such system being used in the ER4SR? Ergo, you would need to bump the 100hz frequency up by 6db to get an accurate bass reproduction?
 
 
'In 1933 data were reported which indicated that thresholds of hearing for frequencies apparently depended upon whether the source was an earphone (MAP) or a loudspeaker (MAF). A decade or so later the same type of discrepancy appeared when loudness balances were made at 100 Hz between an earphone source and a loudspeaker source. In both cases approximately 6 dB more sound pressure level at the eardrum was required when the earphone was the source than when the loudspeaker was the source. Later research added credence fo this paradox, namely, the ear should act as a pressure operated device, and there should be no difference between MAP and MAF; yet a difference seemed to exist. Research reported in abstract form and orally by the author in 1962 and 1963 showed that (a) the difference at threshold was due to physiological noise generated in the ear canal by the earphone-cushion-head combination (and could be eliminated with a special earphone-coupling system), and (b) the suprathreshold differences obtained with loudness balancing were due to a number of subtle procedural and experimental techniques (techniques which could be modified so as to avoid all of the problems of past experimenters). This research is reported here for the first time in full detail. A total of 15 different subjects participated in eight experimental comparisons using three to nine subjects each, with sufficient replications so that most subjects' MAF-MAP and/or loudness differences were determined within 1 or 2 dB at the 95% confidence level. It was often possible to replicate previous results using previous methods, but with the modified methods reported here the average difference across experiments was less than 0.2 dB, and no subject in any experiment exhibited more than a 1.8-dB difference averaged across trials. The case of the missing 6 dB should be considered closed.'
 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/16113021_The_case_of_the_missing_6_dB

 

[ClieOS]

 
​Fascinating. So I had a little read up on the 'missing 6dB Paradox' and as I understand it, the problem could be eliminated through a special earphone coupling system.
 
Are you implying that there is no such system being used in the ER4SR? Ergo, you would need to bump the 100hz frequency up by 6db to get an accurate bass reproduction?
 
...

 
The basic idea is that, for most untrained ears, people tends to prefer their headphone with boosted bass. The boosting level can be varied depends on individual research papers, but we just call it '6dB' for simplicity purpose. These researches also show, with trained ears or with the right setup, there is no preference to add bass boost - in a way, you can say if you have accustomed (*trained) to SR's flat sound, then you won't find yourself wanting a bass boost. But for many others who have no preference to a flat sound, they most likely will prefer some level of bass boost.
 
For a different take on the same topic, you can also read up on 'Harman headphone listener target curve', which is more or less another missing-6dB-like study by Harman to develop their own headphone FR curve, with the bass boost of course.

 

[qsk78]

 
Is this not just people becoming used to the increased bass found on most IEMs? The SR is a fairly accurate representation of the entire frequency range as I understand it.

 To me the SR has exactly the right amount of bass, quality and qauntity wise. 
I think this is exactly the case when majority of people got used to the increased amount of bass and consider it normal...

 

[ETYHeadRick]

Apparently Etymotic will issue a credit of around $100 if you trade in your HF3 on a new er4xr/sr. Anyone have any experience doing this?

 
We have an upgrade program which allows you to send back an older ER4 and get a discount on the new XR or SR. At this time, only traditional ER4 models are eligible for the trade-in. It's run separately from our SPO (Special Purchase Option) program. If you were to send back a HF3, you the discount code would only apply to the previous ER4 versions (P-T, S, B) and the other items on this list - http://www.etymotic.com/support/out-of-warranty-and-special-purchase-options.

 

[CraftyClown]

   To me the SR has exactly the right amount of bass, quality and qauntity wise. 
I think this is exactly the case when majority of people got used to the increased amount of bass and consider it normal...

 
Did you read that bit above about 'the missing 6db' though. Fascinating stuff.
 
It appears there is a physiological issue that may cause a 6db deficit in bass for some listeners

 

[CraftyClown]

   
We have an upgrade program which allows you to send back an older ER4 and get a discount on the new XR or SR. At this time, only traditional ER4 models are eligible for the trade-in. It's run separately from our SPO (Special Purchase Option) program. If you were to send back a HF3, you the discount code would only apply to the previous ER4 versions (P-T, S, B) and the other items on this list - http://www.etymotic.com/support/out-of-warranty-and-special-purchase-options.

 
Thanks Rick. Are you doing the trade with faulty ER4Ps as well? I have an issue (cable related I think) with the left channel. They are way out of warranty though. Seems a waste to chuck them away.
 
Also, I don't suppose Dave is in the office? As an engineer, It would be great to get his input on this whole missing 6db issue in relation to the current Ety ER4 series.
 
Cheers

 

[ETYHeadRick]

   
Thanks Rick. Are you doing the trade with faulty ER4Ps as well? I have an issue (cable related I think) with the left channel. They are way out of warranty though. Seems a waste to chuck them away.
 
Also, I don't suppose Dave is in the office? As an engineer, It would be great to get his input on this whole missing 6db issue in relation to the current Ety ER4 series.
 
Cheers

Yes we are. The pricing is based on the warranty eligibility of your current ER4s (in warranty makes the price $225, out of warranty is $275). In order to qualify for the $225, a proof of purchase is required, otherwise you'd still be eligible for the $275, provided you can send back your original unit.
 
I haven't seen Dave yet. He works slightly different hours than I do. There's always the possibility that he's at the Cubs parade.