[Ocelitgol]

would using Symbio affect anything here? The triple flange doesn't look comfortable....

 

[bcaulf17]

Here is your solution. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...0.0&pvid=f60547d7-9fc3-4a51-8a35-136b0cf16929

I know people have said others on headfi make them as well. There are a few options in varying price ranges on Ali.

Thanks! I’ve been dying to try the balanced port on my Fiio Q1 Mk II and that’s a nice looking cable, not too expensive either.

 

[bcaulf17]

@headenvelopedinsound does the balanced cable provide any audible differences? On my Fiio the balanced port is more powerful but it’s an IEM so it doesn’t need that much power.

 

[headenvelopedinsound]

I am not the one to ask. I only know of that product because it’s also sold in standard 3.5. But I did read up on it recently, just to a vs google search for more.
https://majorhifi.com/balanced-vs-unbalanced-cable-can-hear-difference/

@headenvelopedinsound does the balanced cable provide any audible differences? On my Fiio the balanced port is more powerful but it’s an IEM so it doesn’t need that much power.

 

[luisdent]

No they don't!
When audiophiles are in the market for a new amp, they usually look to get something that will be able to handle at least 115dB SPL into whatever transducer they plan to use with it. they do that because there is almost no situation that could require more. For the er4sr 115dB SPL that's about 11mW into 45ohm at 1kHz. POWER!!!!!!!!!
While you can find a few old devices(at least 1 or 2 Sony DAPs) that can't even get 11mW per channel into that load, such stupid devices are hard to find nowadays. Almost any audio device, cellphone, portable amp you can purchase will handle 11mW into 45ohm like it's nothing.
And that's the power to get 115dB SPL at 1kHz. With Ety, 3kHz is going to be like 10dB louder. Who wants to listen to music with 125dB peaks? Not me. Most people will use their devices to listen at levels that will massively reduce the actual power flowing into the IEM. On my DAP, set as I just used this afternoon with the er4sr, I land an impressive 0.13mW(yes, milliwatt) at 1kHz. And again it's 45ohm, not a difficult load at all. Most portable devices will have a perfectly fine damping ratio into this. So maybe you can understand why my head blows up when I read your post trying to emphasize power for that IEM? Because it's crazy.

If you mean something like keeping the signal linear thanks to good damping, stable amp output or whatever idea like that, the correlation you're looking to establish is probably about distortions instead of power. If you think about noise, say noise. If you have no idea what's actually causing your subjective impressions, say that. Most people don't know jack crap about electricity or other objective audio stuff, and they live very well that way. Or IDK, say how in your opinion better devices are better. We won't be learning much but at least it's a statement I can stand behind.

What I find interesting is that I'm absolutely all about getting the ultimate best quality sound. That's why I even use EQ. But so many people will spend a lot of money on an amp because it supposedly changes the sound of the earphones. I can say this with 100% certainty... any change you hear from swapping an amp (barring any obscenely bad amps) will be infinitesimally small compared to changing between etymotic models or simply adding a tiny bit of eq.

I'm not dissuading amp purchases. But trying to be realistic. If you don't like the sounds of the ety because it's too "strident" and things like that people say, dropping the 2-3khz frequency by even 2db will make a bigger change than swapping amps could ever do. This is not regarding other factors like distortion, etc. But another fallacy is that an amp can give you better distortion than you have with your source. Amps can't remove distortion generally speaking. If your phone has distortion, your amp will. You would need a DAC to eliminate the source distortion. That's another discussion.

Needless to say, I use my er4sr/xr on my note 9 and it is a) more than powerful enough even with an eq gain preamp cut, and b) sonically pristine.

I do use my jds labs element now and then, and while I do believe it somehow sounds better, its incredibly slight and hard to tell how. My assumption is that the superior lack of distortion, better volume control precision, etc. probably give it a slightly cleaner sound at the exact volume i want. But even though it sounds slightly better, I would take my note 9 with EQ over the element every day, no questions asked. But give me the element with EQ and even better.

My point is that the er4s needed amplification if you had levels loud enough and wanted the best performance. The newer models all do very well on more modest mobile devices. If you want to lose your hearing, and that is your choice, then you can push them harder with an amp. Otherwise, the only reason I would recommend anyone get and amp for them is if they want to use a DAC with it to ensure you are getting low noise, good output impedance, low distortion, etc. Basically if your source has a problem. And many truly do.

My s7 output was not the same as my note 9. Apple phones are usually superb, as is the headphone dongle they sell. Android dongle? Not so much. All of these things have measurements available online, and different people may hear the changes more or less. But the key for me is to ensure the sound is ideal from start to finish. Many phones are "good enough " and most people couldn't differentiate between them. Some phones are superb, and there should be no audible difference at all.

Power is rarely insufficient for a new un-EQ'd etymotic earphone. If it is, grab an amp. If not, ask whether your source is pristine and ideal. Otherwise, I say enjoy them and save time, money, and convenience. amps have a place, but they aren't a magic improvement necessarily...

 

[Max Choiral]

What I find interesting is that I'm absolutely all about getting the ultimate best quality sound. That's why I even use EQ. But so many people will spend a lot of money on an amp because it supposedly changes the sound of the earphones. I can say this with 100% certainty... any change you hear from swapping an amp (barring any obscenely bad amps) will be infinitesimally small compared to changing between etymotic models or simply adding a tiny bit of eq.

I'm not dissuading amp purchases. But trying to be realistic. If you don't like the sounds of the ety because it's too "strident" and things like that people say, dropping the 2-3khz frequency by even 2db will make a bigger change than swapping amps could ever do. This is not regarding other factors like distortion, etc. But another fallacy is that an amp can give you better distortion than you have with your source. Amps can't remove distortion generally speaking. If your phone has distortion, your amp will. You would need a DAC to eliminate the source distortion. That's another discussion.

Needless to say, I use my er4sr/xr on my note 9 and it is a) more than powerful enough even with an eq gain preamp cut, and b) sonically pristine.

I do use my jds labs element now and then, and while I do believe it somehow sounds better, its incredibly slight and hard to tell how. My assumption is that the superior lack of distortion, better volume control precision, etc. probably give it a slightly cleaner sound at the exact volume i want. But even though it sounds slightly better, I would take my note 9 with EQ over the element every day, no questions asked. But give me the element with EQ and even better.

My point is that the er4s needed amplification if you had levels loud enough and wanted the best performance. The newer models all do very well on more modest mobile devices. If you want to lose your hearing, and that is your choice, then you can push them harder with an amp. Otherwise, the only reason I would recommend anyone get and amp for them is if they want to use a DAC with it to ensure you are getting low noise, good output impedance, low distortion, etc. Basically if your source has a problem. And many truly do.

My s7 output was not the same as my note 9. Apple phones are usually superb, as is the headphone dongle they sell. Android dongle? Not so much. All of these things have measurements available online, and different people may hear the changes more or less. But the key for me is to ensure the sound is ideal from start to finish. Many phones are "good enough " and most people couldn't differentiate between them. Some phones are superb, and there should be no audible difference at all.

Power is rarely insufficient for a new un-EQ'd etymotic earphone. If it is, grab an amp. If not, ask whether your source is pristine and ideal. Otherwise, I say enjoy them and save time, money, and convenience. amps have a place, but they aren't a magic improvement necessarily...

A reasonable point of view, no doubt. However, an amp is not about the level of loudness. And it's not like the more mW you have the better sound you will get. It's much more complicated.
A d/a converter is very much dependent on implementation. It doesn't guarantee you anything aforementioned.
Most if not all sources measure with much lower distortion than any type of headphones. You hear source distortion, don't you? Truly, a very fascinating fact

 

[luisdent]

You hear source distortion, don't you? Truly, a very fascinating fact

I never said or implied that. In fact, I though the whole point of my post was to show that you CAN'T hear a difference between most good sources and amp'ing them. But if you are going to amp them it would make more sense to use a DAC to improve every spec, thereby theoretically bypassing any flaws in your source. That was all I was saying. I dont think most people hear distortion even in headphones "most" of the time. They attribute something else to distortion when it is actually flawed frequency response or something...

But I'm definitely more on the cynical side of things when it comes to what people think they hear. Haha

And yes, a DAC depends on implementation, but with proper drivers and hardware you can definitely improve bad sources through bypassing the internal amp and using a DAC/amp combo. I can't imagine you'd argue that point? Which again, I was simply saying is not neccessary most of the time. Most common smartphones measure and perform incredibly well. That doesnt mean all of them. Some have high noise levels and hiss due to impedance, poor quality amps, etc. Those may benefit from an external DAC/amp. An iphone, not so much. Unless of course you are driving a headphone that required more power. Then you'd want an amplifier capable of such driving power. But the er3/4 current series should not require that amount of power.

Whether you'd hear a difference in a good, properly implemented DAC/amp and you phone depends largely on your phone and headphones and your eara/brain.

 

[headenvelopedinsound]

Well is Crinacle’s take on this subject of power.

https://crinacle.com/2019/09/30/on-the-record-power/

 

[Killcomic]

All DACs should sound the same. If they don’t, they are defective.
All amps should sound the same. If they don’t, they are defective.
With IEMs, you only need to worry about impedance. If you have highly inefficient IEMs, then you might need more power, but that will only affect volume.

Now I wait patiently for someone to bring up the magic amp elves that “open up the sound”, “tightens up the bass” and makes the sound more “musical”, with the scientific evidence that they could really, really hear the difference.

 

[Raketen]

All DACs should sound the same. If they don’t, they are defective.
All amps should sound the same. If they don’t, they are defective.
With IEMs, you only need to worry about impedance. If you have highly inefficient IEMs, then you might need more power, but that will only affect volume.

Now I wait patiently for someone to bring up the magic amp elves that “open up the sound”, “tightens up the bass” and makes the sound more “musical”, with the scientific evidence that they could really, really hear the difference.

In Correct World, everything sounds equally bad. In this world, imprecise != defective, at least not for everyone and not for every definition of defective.

 

[Killcomic]

In Correct World, everything sounds equally bad. In this world, measures imperfectly != defective, at least not for everyone.

Perfectly transparent gear can be produced cheaply and easily. It has been this way for decades. The main factor now is the transducer.
If your AMP sounds better than all the others, it’s probably colouring the sound.

 

[Raketen]

Perfectly transparent gear can be produced cheaply and easily. It has been this way for decades. The main factor now is the transducer.
If your AMP sounds better than all the others, it’s probably colouring the sound.

My point is that for some people coloration doesn't equate to defective, that there isn't just one way of looking at this. If you accept different kinds of coloration from transducers why wouldn't you accept that from an amplifier? Also transducers will react differently with different "perfectly transparent" amplifiers.

 

[Killcomic]

My point is that for some people coloration doesn't equate to defective. If you accept different kinds of coloration from transducers why wouldn't you accept that from an amplifier? Also transducers will react differently with different "perfectly transparent" amplifiers.

if you want coloured sound, go for it. But if you’re paying an arm and a leg for gear with exotic components and materials, just for what is basically an EQ change, I’d rather use the EQ.

The only reason a transducer would react differently to an amplifier is due to impedance differences.

 

[Ocelitgol]

What I find interesting is that I'm absolutely all about getting the ultimate best quality sound. That's why I even use EQ. But so many people will spend a lot of money on an amp because it supposedly changes the sound of the earphones. I can say this with 100% certainty... any change you hear from swapping an amp (barring any obscenely bad amps) will be infinitesimally small compared to changing between etymotic models or simply adding a tiny bit of eq.

I'm not dissuading amp purchases. But trying to be realistic. If you don't like the sounds of the ety because it's too "strident" and things like that people say, dropping the 2-3khz frequency by even 2db will make a bigger change than swapping amps could ever do. This is not regarding other factors like distortion, etc. But another fallacy is that an amp can give you better distortion than you have with your source. Amps can't remove distortion generally speaking. If your phone has distortion, your amp will. You would need a DAC to eliminate the source distortion. That's another discussion.

Needless to say, I use my er4sr/xr on my note 9 and it is a) more than powerful enough even with an eq gain preamp cut, and b) sonically pristine.

I do use my jds labs element now and then, and while I do believe it somehow sounds better, its incredibly slight and hard to tell how. My assumption is that the superior lack of distortion, better volume control precision, etc. probably give it a slightly cleaner sound at the exact volume i want. But even though it sounds slightly better, I would take my note 9 with EQ over the element every day, no questions asked. But give me the element with EQ and even better.

My point is that the er4s needed amplification if you had levels loud enough and wanted the best performance. The newer models all do very well on more modest mobile devices. If you want to lose your hearing, and that is your choice, then you can push them harder with an amp. Otherwise, the only reason I would recommend anyone get and amp for them is if they want to use a DAC with it to ensure you are getting low noise, good output impedance, low distortion, etc. Basically if your source has a problem. And many truly do.

My s7 output was not the same as my note 9. Apple phones are usually superb, as is the headphone dongle they sell. Android dongle? Not so much. All of these things have measurements available online, and different people may hear the changes more or less. But the key for me is to ensure the sound is ideal from start to finish. Many phones are "good enough " and most people couldn't differentiate between them. Some phones are superb, and there should be no audible difference at all.

Power is rarely insufficient for a new un-EQ'd etymotic earphone. If it is, grab an amp. If not, ask whether your source is pristine and ideal. Otherwise, I say enjoy them and save time, money, and convenience. amps have a place, but they aren't a magic improvement necessarily...

do you use the Dolby Atmos feature on Note 9 while using Ety?

 

[luisdent]

do you use the Dolby Atmos feature on Note 9 while using Ety?

No. I don't use any processing effects other than corrective eq. I'm not against anything if someone likes it, but I've never really played with any of the galaxy audio effects, and I prefer the most neutral sound.