If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you...
May 26, 2019 at 9:06 AM Post #13,366 of 19,242
If we were able to precisely tell a person the immeasurable difference between any headphones, that would be amazing.
I am afraid I don't understand your reply. Specific language is difficult in these matters, I know. Between the two I was wondering if the Er4sr has some improved quality that makes it an upgrade or not. Or whether we are simply talking about the balance. I have yet to come across a post where someone has stated they have both and the one is a little better because of whatever specific thing they heard; something like, sharper focus etc. I certainly appreciate the engineering end of things where if something measures equivalent then they are equivalent, and I can subscribe to that. If that is what you mean.
 
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May 26, 2019 at 10:44 AM Post #13,367 of 19,242
I'm guessing you mean equal loudness contour(the ex Fletcher-Munson curve) instead of Harman curve. a volume knob will attenuate everything equally. well, nothing is perfect, but it's not too hard to get resistors that are mainly just that, so the frequency of the signal won't matter until very high frequencies.
I would personally like a volume knob that makes me feel like the amount of subs and trebles remain fairly stable subjectively at all levels, but to have that we would need to first estimate our own curves as they may differ in some ways compared to human average(or not). and then we would need to know the sensi of the IEM/headphone we're using each time, to calibrate what voltage is equivalent to... maybe a reference of 60dB SPL. so it's pretty impractical but not impossible.

Yes, thank you for the clarification, the Fletcher-Munson curve was what I meant to reference. And yeah, I would also like think volume changes all frequencies equally, but I don't have enough info to draw a definite conclusion.

Definitely calls for testing, I should hit some fellow EE audio buffs and get this all figured out!
 
May 27, 2019 at 1:11 AM Post #13,370 of 19,242
This thread is very much alive. There must be a serious fan base of Ety IEMs. (Well deserved.)

Can anyone confirm that the ER3XR with a 20ohm resistor comes very close if not identical to ER4XR?

Not quite, but it does fit some of the problems with the 3XR. It's more of a half-fix than a full fix.
 
May 27, 2019 at 5:05 AM Post #13,373 of 19,242
This thread is very much alive. There must be a serious fan base of Ety IEMs. (Well deserved.)

Agreed, haven't been active on this thread for almost 2 years, when the ER4SR/XR were still a novelty, glad it's still going full steam!

ER-4 (PT and SR) are still the mainstay of my IEM wardrobe, probably drew away all my interest for other headphones altogether.

Totally overwhelmed by the new ER2 and ER3! I've missed that completely. Guess I have some catch up reading to do...

Cheers Etyheads :ksc75smile: (where's the etymoji gone btw?
 
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May 27, 2019 at 10:26 AM Post #13,375 of 19,242
ER2SE.JPG


Here it is, my ER2SE has arrived this afternoon and I just spent about 15 minutes listening to it and comparing to the ER4SR.

I'll say the obvious first: I don't find ER2SE to be better sound, nor in any significant way bassy or bright than ER4SR. In fact, my initial impression is that it sounds almost the same ER4SR as far as overall frequency distribution goes. It is still very much the same classic Etymotic FR curve.The one major area I do find them to be different is in spaciousness and imaging - ER2SE sounds just slightly crowded with vocal and instruments mostly focused on the front and center of the listener, and things can get a little hard to separate at time. In comparison, everything in ER4SR is well spaced, opened and clearly defined. The smaller image can make ER2SE feels more 'bassy' in a way - but to me it is neither quantitatively nor qualitatively more bass, but an illusion from a more compacted sound. While it might not be nearly as resolving as ER4SR, the ER2SE is probably still well ahead of most IEM on its class, which of course is not a bad thing at all. For anyone who are new to Ety sound, it'll still make for a great introduction to the Ety signature without being too clinical.

ER-FRc.png


Also did a simple FR measurement, and the result is fairly consistent to what I have heard - overall FR on mid and lower range are just about identical. the difference on treble is more obvious but they are still within a dB or two to each others.
 
May 27, 2019 at 10:39 AM Post #13,376 of 19,242


Here it is, my ER2SE has arrived this afternoon and I just spent about 15 minutes listening to it and comparing to the ER4SR.

I'll say the obvious first: I don't find ER2SE to be better sound, nor in any significant way bassy or bright than ER4SR. In fact, my initial impression is that it sounds almost the same ER4SR as far as overall frequency distribution goes. It is still very much the same classic Etymotic FR curve.The one major area I do find them to be different is in spaciousness and imaging - ER2SE sounds just slightly crowded with vocal and instruments mostly focused on the front and center of the listener, and things can get a little hard to separate at time. In comparison, everything in ER4SR is well spaced, opened and clearly defined. The smaller image can make ER2SE feels more 'bassy' in a way - but to me it is neither quantitatively nor qualitatively more bass, but an illusion from a more compacted sound. While it might not be nearly as resolving as ER4SR, the ER2SE is probably still well ahead of most IEM on its class, which of course is not a bad thing at all. For anyone who are new to Ety sound, it'll still make for a great introduction to the Ety signature without being too clinical.



Also did a simple FR measurement, and the result is fairly consistent to what I have heard - overall FR on mid and lower range are just about identical. the difference on treble is more obvious but they are still within a dB or two to each others.
The measurements is a bit different from mine. Mine definitely showed better low end extension and less 5-8k energy.
One thing to notice is that due to different driver structure, er2se requires to insert much shallower than er4. It may differ from different person. But the sound is best with just well isolated instead of inserting deep into the second bend. You can use tone generator to help find a smooth treble response.
 
May 27, 2019 at 12:20 PM Post #13,377 of 19,242


Here it is, my ER2SE has arrived this afternoon and I just spent about 15 minutes listening to it and comparing to the ER4SR.

I'll say the obvious first: I don't find ER2SE to be better sound, nor in any significant way bassy or bright than ER4SR. In fact, my initial impression is that it sounds almost the same ER4SR as far as overall frequency distribution goes. It is still very much the same classic Etymotic FR curve.The one major area I do find them to be different is in spaciousness and imaging - ER2SE sounds just slightly crowded with vocal and instruments mostly focused on the front and center of the listener, and things can get a little hard to separate at time. In comparison, everything in ER4SR is well spaced, opened and clearly defined. The smaller image can make ER2SE feels more 'bassy' in a way - but to me it is neither quantitatively nor qualitatively more bass, but an illusion from a more compacted sound. While it might not be nearly as resolving as ER4SR, the ER2SE is probably still well ahead of most IEM on its class, which of course is not a bad thing at all. For anyone who are new to Ety sound, it'll still make for a great introduction to the Ety signature without being too clinical.



Also did a simple FR measurement, and the result is fairly consistent to what I have heard - overall FR on mid and lower range are just about identical. the difference on treble is more obvious but they are still within a dB or two to each others.
Cool. Thanks much for the review :)
 
May 27, 2019 at 1:18 PM Post #13,378 of 19,242
One thing to notice is that due to different driver structure, er2se requires to insert much shallower than er4.
Can you explain that a bit more? My ER2XR and ER4XR measure similar to one another in the mids and treble: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/if-...-thread-for-you.538615/page-873#post-14880746 (as do @ClieOS' ER4SR and ER2SE). Resonance peaks align fairly well without changing the insertion depth in my ears or my coupler. Are you suggesting that the DD models would sound better with a shallower insertion? If so, why?

Using the exact same insertion depth, I think I actually prefer the sound of the ER2XR. It loses almost nothing in the treble, and it actually has sub-bass :)
 
May 27, 2019 at 1:23 PM Post #13,379 of 19,242
Can you explain that a bit more? My ER2XR and ER4XR measure similar to one another in the mids and treble: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/if-...-thread-for-you.538615/page-873#post-14880746 (as do @ClieOS' ER4SR and ER2SE). Resonance peaks align fairly well without changing the insertion depth in my ears or my coupler. Are you suggesting that the DD models would sound better with a shallower insertion? If so, why?

Using the exact same insertion depth, I think I actually prefer the sound of the ER2XR. It loses almost nothing in the treble, and it actually has sub-bass :)
First of all, your measurements suggested much more difference that his measurements. Yours pretty much showed same difference below 7khz.

About resonance frequency and stuff. It's not that dynamic driver needs to be inserted shallow. No, mk5 benefits when inserted as deep as er4. Er2 will have a sharp peak at 13k when inserted deep but give no peak at all when inserted shallow(in the ear). I use tone generator to test this. This method is valid at 20-500hz and 7khz+. It should not be flat between 500 and 7k. In fact 10khz. But there shouldn't be peak at any frequency.
https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
 
May 27, 2019 at 1:28 PM Post #13,380 of 19,242
Any you guys able to compare 3XR and 2XR? I’ve tried 4XR, 4PT/S, 3XR, and 3SE, and the 3XR sounded noticeably more congested than all of them, because of the extra bass boost on top of the 4XR’s bass boost. From the measurements it seems the 2XR has a similar bass boost over the 4XR which makes me think that they’ll sound similarly congested like the 3XR.

I have ER2SE on the way which I’m looking forward to. Got on Amazon for $120 and if it’s anything like the 3SE but perhaps a bit more bodied, I’ll be pleased.
 

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