If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you...
Apr 2, 2019 at 7:19 PM Post #13,051 of 19,253
the 35dB is not actually an NRR rating, but I would expect the 2XR to be very similar in attenuation performance to the rest of the line. We have not had that independently verified, but it is a sealed design and it should be comparable. Subjectively, I don't notice much difference. As always, it does depend on the quality of the seal one gets.
Ok, thanks.
 
Apr 3, 2019 at 9:16 AM Post #13,052 of 19,253
i hope that due to the ER2 being a dynamic driver, it is possible to extend the er4-style channel matching down to lower frequencies
 
Apr 3, 2019 at 9:23 AM Post #13,053 of 19,253
i hope that due to the ER2 being a dynamic driver, it is possible to extend the er4-style channel matching down to lower frequencies

That has nothing to do with whether it is a dynamic or a BA driver, but no measuring system out there that can measure lower bass well enough to match them.
 
Apr 3, 2019 at 10:54 AM Post #13,054 of 19,253
That has nothing to do with whether it is a dynamic or a BA driver, but no measuring system out there that can measure lower bass well enough to match them.
That's not my experience with measurements. For sure, there are ongoing issues about whether a particular IEC "standard" coupler matches the average human ear or not, but in my experience, even a cheap dynamic or electret condenser mic in a piece of garden hose will tell you whether two IEMs measure the same or not, down to at least 20 Hz. For the purposes of channel matching, the two measurements don't need to be accurate; they just need to be the same.
 
Apr 3, 2019 at 12:37 PM Post #13,055 of 19,253
for me, the sound signature of the drivers don't matter as much as how indistinguishable they are from each other, because we have a pair of ears precision and consistency counts for more than flavour and signature
I have been using Equalizer APO daily with these settings on my ER3-XR where the driver on the left side has excessive bass response, I listen to bass heavy music all the time and not even the ER4 channel matching goes below 100hz... Individually the drivers sound flawless, but mismatch in the low frequency region produces a very unnatural and almost nauseating effect
equalizerapo.png
 
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Apr 3, 2019 at 3:09 PM Post #13,056 of 19,253
Although I'd (of course) always like nicely-matched left and right channels, I find differences in the sub-bass (<100 Hz) surprisingly difficult to detect, even when I know they're there. I suspect somebody with better ears (and a better brain) than me could probably pick up some mismatch in the soundstage. Something has to be a bit screwy if the timing to the left and right channels match, but the amplitude is off. Then again, long wavelength, low-frequency signals don't always have a very abrupt start/stop, so who knows...?
 
Apr 3, 2019 at 3:11 PM Post #13,057 of 19,253
Although I'd (of course) always like nicely-matched left and right channels, I find differences in the sub-bass (<100 Hz) surprisingly difficult to detect, even when I know they're there. I suspect somebody with better ears (and a better brain) than me could probably pick up some mismatch in the soundstage. Something has to be a bit screwy if the timing to the left and right channels match, but the amplitude is off. Then again, long wavelength, low-frequency signals don't always have a very abrupt start/stop, so who knows...?
You just need the proper music to test sub-bass. Psychedelic ambient is usually the way to go. :wink:
 
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Apr 3, 2019 at 3:21 PM Post #13,059 of 19,253
That's not my experience with measurements. For sure, there are ongoing issues about whether a particular IEC "standard" coupler matches the average human ear or not, but in my experience, even a cheap dynamic or electret condenser mic in a piece of garden hose will tell you whether two IEMs measure the same or not, down to at least 20 Hz. For the purposes of channel matching, the two measurements don't need to be accurate; they just need to be the same.

In experience, there is more variability between artificial ears at higher frequencies than lower frequencies. The IEC 60318-4 standard that the couplers are designed to meet only specs up to 10kHz. The spec for the low frequency isn't as low as you'd expect either (100Hz or maybe even more, IIRC). These couplers also have that pesky barometric relief hole, which can result in slight differences from coupler to coupler in the very low frequencies. That's why it's important to validate and calibrate the test system.
 
Apr 3, 2019 at 3:25 PM Post #13,060 of 19,253
Although I'd (of course) always like nicely-matched left and right channels, I find differences in the sub-bass (<100 Hz) surprisingly difficult to detect, even when I know they're there. I suspect somebody with better ears (and a better brain) than me could probably pick up some mismatch in the soundstage. Something has to be a bit screwy if the timing to the left and right channels match, but the amplitude is off. Then again, long wavelength, low-frequency signals don't always have a very abrupt start/stop, so who knows...?


Thats interesting to me because I have the same problem but in my case my right ear is less sensitive than my right. I'm curious if you have tried swapping the lower volume side to the other ear to see if its an ear problem.
 
Apr 3, 2019 at 3:30 PM Post #13,062 of 19,253
Is the ER4XR more resolving than the ER3XR?

I love my ER3XR for what it is, especially for the price.
I am however used to a more resolving sound from my higher-end headphones.

Since I hardly ever use IEMs this is not too important for me I am just wondering if I'd invest in the ER4XR that would give me a little higher resolution vs. ER3XR or not really. Thanks.
 
Apr 3, 2019 at 3:49 PM Post #13,063 of 19,253
In experience, there is more variability between artificial ears at higher frequencies than lower frequencies. The IEC 60318-4 standard that the couplers are designed to meet only specs up to 10kHz. The spec for the low frequency isn't as low as you'd expect either (100Hz or maybe even more, IIRC). These couplers also have that pesky barometric relief hole, which can result in slight differences from coupler to coupler in the very low frequencies. That's why it's important to validate and calibrate the test system.
Ah, but my garden hose doesn't have that pesky barometric relief hole :wink:

I agree you'd want to validate and calibrate if you want to publish results for others, but when looking for channel imbalance, all I'd need to see is that L & R measure the same. If they don't, we can then get into more nuanced measurements of the deltas. I won't embarrass any manufacturers here (it's not Etymotic, anyway), but I have some headphones that match almost perfectly from 20 Hz to 10 kHz, and some others that are wildly off. IMHO, those findings wouldn't change on another measurement rig.
 
Apr 3, 2019 at 5:18 PM Post #13,064 of 19,253
for me, the sound signature of the drivers don't matter as much as how indistinguishable they are from each other, because we have a pair of ears precision and consistency counts for more than flavour and signature
I have been using Equalizer APO daily with these settings on my ER3-XR where the driver on the left side has excessive bass response, I listen to bass heavy music all the time and not even the ER4 channel matching goes below 100hz... Individually the drivers sound flawless, but mismatch in the low frequency region produces a very unnatural and almost nauseating effect
There are two things to notice. First of all, the imbalance was not an issue when there was no venting on ba drivers. The venting process needs to be very very precise. Slightly variation can cause some imbalance in the sub 100hz region. Yours are er3xr not even the hand matched er4. But his also happens to er4, as er4 are matched down to 100hz, it's likely that 100hz has 0.5-1db difference, passed the matching and 2db difference can still happen at 30-50hz. It would be way less of a problem for old er4, er4sr, hf5etc.
About the dynamic drivers on the other hand, if there is venting, there is also likely to have variations. In fact, dynamic drivers are far more varied than ba drivers. Not once that I see matcing of less than 0.5db down to 50hz. But it is very common for ba drivers. The low frequency is one thing, the high frequency is worse. Especially for small dynamic drivers, the consistency is inherently worse than larger drivers, but I am very glad to see er2 has improved so much about the channel matching. And of course this came with a cost, more expensive.
 
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