[castleofargh]

From what I've read, I thought the newer ones are easier to drive due to the lower impedance. Not sure though. And I don't have the new ones to compare. Yet.

because when that was said they compared apples to apples i.e. er4s vs er4sr as that was the target signature of the sr model.
at least I understood it like that.
 
Quote:

  It was my understanding, too.

  So to be clear... is it fair to say that at max volume, using the Sansa Clip (or other player for that matter), the XR and SR should both be about 4% less loud than using the same player with the ER4PT?
 
Also, I'm still curious about the first question I asked:
 
Do the ER4SR have a little less bass than the ER4PT, or about the same amount?  Would I be right to say that the ER4XR should have a little more bass than the ER4PT?  

4db not 4%. to give a very non intuitive reference, +10db is considered about twice as loud. 4db isn't a lot of difference. certainly not one that would justify changing the source if the old IEM was fine with it without having to max out the volume level. 

 

[AnyDave]

   
 
It was my understanding, too.

  So to be clear... is it fair to say that at max volume, using the Sansa Clip (or other player for that matter), the XR and SR should both be about 4% less loud than using the same player with the ER4PT?
 
Also, I'm still curious about the first question I asked:
 
Do the ER4SR have a little less bass than the ER4PT, or about the same amount?  Would I be right to say that the ER4XR should have a little more bass than the ER4PT?  

 
Do you know what the voltage swing is on the Sansa Clip?
 
If you take something like a current iPod (or other Apple product) they can swing about a volt.  If the sensitivity is 98dB at 100mV, it's going to be 118dB at 1V, which is way louder than I would recommend listening.  For reference, If you worked in an environment that monitored sound level, the NIOSH standard would allow you to be exposed to 118dBA for all of 14 seconds without hearing protection.  OSHA has a slightly more lax standard and allows 15 minutes at 115dBA SPL.  118 wasn't listed on the chart I saw, but I assume it would be closer to 10 minutes.
 
That's a long winded way of saying that it should be loud enough.  There's a limit to how much louder it can get anyway as the earphone's max output level is 120dB (which is true for the old ER4PT as well).  Now, if the Sansa Clip has a lower output then maybe it could be an issue.

 

[AnyDave]

   
By the way, Ive been using Etymotics for probably 12 years, and have sent them in to have the cable fixed probably 6 times.  I am really hoping that with the advent of the "replaceable cable", we will also finally have "well made cables" that do not constantly break.  It seems that the cable that comes with the XR/SR is also not so good.  Hopefully better ones will be made available.

 
I haven't heard of any issues with the cables yet.  Some issues are unavoidable, but we do expect these to be more reliable.  I'd be very interested to hear of any issues people are having.

 

[AnyDave]

  4db not 4%. to give a very non intuitive reference, +10db is considered about twice as loud. 4db isn't a lot of difference. certainly not one that would justify changing the source if the old IEM was fine with it without having to max out the volume level. 

 
Yep.  Spot on.

 

[mark88888]

Thanks to all replies!
 
I did get the we were talking db not %, but I figured that the difference between 98db and 102db would be roughly 4% ... but I suppose its a bit of an exponential increase then, similar to how earthquakes are measured (omg math!).
 
I dont know the voltage swing on the sansa clip+ but it is not an especially powerful little player.  I do listen to some/most tunes at max volume with the ER4PT/Sansa Clip+ combo.
 
(Funny, I was active in this forum years ago when many many members used the Sansa Clip+.  It does have excellent sound quality, but it doesnt seem to be popular anymore.  Although this model is no longer produced I still buy and use them. For me it produces an extremely balanced sound... but not loud.)
 
Bass-wise...... is it fair to say that the SR has noticably LESS bass than the ER4PT?  And that the XR have noticably MORE bass?  If so, which are the PTs more similar to, bass-wise, the XR or SR?

 

[luisdent]

The sansa players are plenty loud most of the time. very very similar to iphones. I use my er4s on my iPhone and sansas and there is no noticeable difference in output. I've tested this comparing maximum volume on very very quiet songs.

In all but rare cases, the sansa and er4s will give you hearing loss at loud volumes. But most people listen at hearing loss levels. So the challenge should be to get used to safer listening levels. :-/ not get an amp

The quietest songs are things like "the wedding" on deep impact soundtrack by james horner. Still decent volume on the sansa, but it definitely requires most if not all of the volume especially if you are using any eq.

 

[Thomas-]

I noticed the ER4XR are out of stock at Thomann... anywhere else you can get these in Europe?

 

[castleofargh]

  Thanks to all replies!
 
I did get the we were talking db not %, but I figured that the difference between 98db and 102db would be roughly 4% ... but I suppose its a bit of an exponential increase then, similar to how earthquakes are measured (omg math!).
 
I dont know the voltage swing on the sansa clip+ but it is not an especially powerful little player.  I do listen to some/most tunes at max volume with the ER4PT/Sansa Clip+ combo.
 
(Funny, I was active in this forum years ago when many many members used the Sansa Clip+.  It does have excellent sound quality, but it doesnt seem to be popular anymore.  Although this model is no longer produced I still buy and use them. For me it produces an extremely balanced sound... but not loud.)
 
Bass-wise...... is it fair to say that the SR has noticably LESS bass than the ER4PT?  And that the XR have noticably MORE bass?  If so, which are the PTs more similar to, bass-wise, the XR or SR?

the default clip+ is stable around 0.5v maxed out into most loads. 98db at 0.1v , would give about 112db @1khz for the er4sr.
 
so unless you're accumulating the attenuations(replay gain, EQ, some gain setting, clogged filters, and maybe a rockbox version that lowers the max output? ), I don't see why the volume would need to reach the max under safe listening conditions.
 
silly question but when we're talking er4pt, we agree that you mean without the adapter cable to turn it into er4s right?

 

[uzi2]

  I noticed the ER4XR are out of stock at Thomann... anywhere else you can get these in Europe?

Try here - HifiHeadphones

 

[headdict]

  ... people tend to put the larger ones on and it's not an issue.

Unless the larger ones are too large, which happens to be the case for many of us. If there were medium sized tri-flange tips, we would not have to switch to third party tips (or third party IEMs that fit better using the same tips).

 

[headdict]

   
Just to clarify: those are what we call the ER38-14F Standard Black Foam Eartips.  The color does vary a bit from foam lot to foam lot.  You can read all about it in our new book "50 Shades of Gray Eartips." 

Sounds intriguing. When will "More than 2 Sizes of Triple Flange Eartips" hit the shelves?

 

[luisdent]

 
... people tend to put the larger ones on and it's not an issue.

Unless the larger ones are too large, which happens to be the case for many of us. If there were medium sized tri-flange tips, we would not have to switch to third party tips (or third party IEMs that fit better using the same tips).

Completely agree. Or at least one with a different ratio of flanges. The small don't seal well for me and the large are too big on the big end and deform causing a fold which breaks the seal...

Many of us cut off flanges, buy other brands, etc. a nice dual flange and a medium triple flange would be amazing..and a medium foam. The pink is too small and the grey is a bit tight...

 

[AnyDave]

 
Sounds intriguing. When will "More than 2 Sizes of Triple Flange Eartips" hit the shelves?

 
Thanks for the feedback.  I haven't heard many requests for a middle sized 3-flange.  We tend to get more for bi-flange and other types of foam.
 
We are evaluating our eartip offerings, so the feedback from users here is very helpful.  It difficult to offer all things to all people as some of the eartips have extremely high minimum order quantities but I do think we can do a better job than we have with eartip solutions.
 
 

 

[AnyDave]

The sansa players are plenty loud most of the time. very very similar to iphones. I use my er4s on my iPhone and sansas and there is no noticeable difference in output. I've tested this comparing maximum volume on very very quiet songs.

In all but rare cases, the sansa and er4s will give you hearing loss at loud volumes. But most people listen at hearing loss levels. So the challenge should be to get used to safer listening levels. :-/ not get an amp

The quietest songs are things like "the wedding" on deep impact soundtrack by james horner. Still decent volume on the sansa, but it definitely requires most if not all of the volume especially if you are using any eq.

 
Yes, that is the x-factor here: the recordings.  If a recording has a wide dynamic range then it can pay to have more output level on tap.  In particular, I notice this with a lot of classical recordings that spend a lot of time in pianissimo sections but crescendo up to short bursts of forte sections.  Live orchestra performances often hit 110 dB SPL for short bursts but are much quieter for the majority of the performance.

 

[mark88888]

 
silly question but when we're talking er4pt, we agree that you mean without the adapter cable to turn it into er4s right?

 
Indeed!  Anyway, thanks for all replies on this issue.  It sounds like the volume will be fine.
 
I still wonder about this:
 
 
Bass-wise...... is it fair to say that the SR has noticably LESS bass than the ER4PT?  And that the XR have noticably MORE bass?  If so, which are the PTs more similar to, bass-wise, the XR or SR?