[luisdent]

luisdent,

That said, here's an unsolicited piece of advice for you: Saying something like "…So I use the graphs only as a guide. If an earphone sounds great I don't care about the graph…" should never be said in the presence of Inks...

Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, are you saying i said that? Because i never did...

 

[luisdent]

Let me ask you some questions. Do you consider the ER4 to have less than neutral quantity of midbass? Does the 7550 have more than the ER4 does? By how much? Not that it would be a deal breaker, but it would be if the difference is significant enough. I read in the 7550 thread that it has more midbass than W4 and GR07, both of which I already consider far too bassy for my preference. I have no doubt the 7550 may be awesome for many, but one man's treasure may be another man's junk. And no, this discussion is perfectly on-topic as we're discussing the 7550 in relation to the ER4, which I deem to be the most ruler flat sounding headphone I've ever heard. I can still enjoy a slightly bassier headphone, but the most important thing is that the midrange and treble have to be just right for me. My personal ideal midrange is something similar to the ER4 but with a little more decay (forwardness and musicality), and less of the 1-3kHz hill. Not sure if I would want to change a thing about the ER4S's treble, except a bit less quantity beyond the 8kHz region.

I find the er4s mid bass perfect. The subbass starts to roll off. The w4r is horribly mid bass bloated. It masks the treble too much for me. I was eqing the mid bass down and some specific treble frequencies, as perfectly shown in the graph on GE.

I havent heard the 7550, but the headroom graphs seem to indicate extra mid bass. It looks like they've changed their graphs recently and ironically they look more like GE graphs ha. It seems like they show a wider range, as though the graph is zoomed out more... Interesting.

Anyway...

 

[Pianist]

Here you go: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDR7550.pdf
 
The Sonys are definitely warmer than the ER4 and seem to roll off somewhat too early in the upper highs. Also, the isolation on them is very poor indeed - they only really isolate the highs, so using them on public transportation is a no go. No offense meant to music_4321, but I don't really see much point in these Sonys for $200+, when there are the wonderful sounding and the much more ergonomical, much better isolating RE-400, HF5, or PFE for $100 less.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

... And no, this discussion is perfectly on-topic as we're discussing the 7550 in relation to the ER4...

 
Okay, I'll respond, then.
Quote:

Do you consider the ER4 to have less than neutral quantity of midbass? Does the 7550 have more than the ER4 does? By how much?

 
Have not tried the ER4, but owned the F111, which appears to be very, very close sonically to the ER-4S (apparently it was inspired on, or meant to be a kind of tribute to, the ER-4S). From memory, the (mid)bass on the F111 and 7550 is very similar, perhaps—only perhaps—ever so slightly more elevated on the 7550s. From memory, I'd take the 7550's bass, which not only seemed to render low freqs more realistically, but the quality itself (texture mostly) is really quite something, with stunning timbre (possibly the result of its 16mm dynamic driver)
 
Quote:

I read in the 7550 thread that it has more midbass than W4 and GR07, both of which I already consider far too bassy for my preference.

 
Like I said, I've not heard the GR07, but having owned the W4, and going from memory again, I don't think the W4 & 7550's bass are similar at all. I recall the W4s having more mid-bass and / or being definitely (much) warmer.
 
Quote:

but one man's treasure may be another man's junk.

 
My guess is you'd not find the 7550s to be junk. A treasure? Possibly. A treasure like your ER4s? No idea, your ears would have to tell you that.
 
Quote:

My personal ideal midrange is something similar to the ER4 but with a little more decay (forwardness and musicality), and less of the 1-3kHz hill. Not sure if I would want to change a thing about the ER4S's treble, except a bit less quantity beyond the 8kHz region.

 
Here's two graphs for the 7550s (EX800ST in Asia), one from InnerFidelity, the other from Sonove.
 

 

 
 
Quote:

Quote:

luisdent,

That said, here's an unsolicited piece of advice for you: Saying something like "…So I use the graphs only as a guide. If an earphone sounds great I don't care about the graph…" should never be said in the presence of Inks...

Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, are you saying i said that? Because i never did...

 
Yes, you did, see post below (#1536):
 
Quote:

 
So I use the graphs only as a guide.  If an earphone sounds great I don't care about the graph...

 
Quote:

I havent heard the 7550, but the headroom graphs seem to indicate extra mid bass. It looks like they've changed their graphs recently and ironically they look more like GE graphs ha. It seems like they show a wider range, as though the graph is zoomed out more... Interesting.

 
Here's the HeadRoom graph, but, in all honesty, it seems a bit off, particularly after 2khz — this, incidentally, goes back to some of the comments I'd cut and pasted and posted earlier.
 

 
Quote:

Here you go: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDR7550.pdf
 
The Sonys are definitely warmer than the ER4 and seem to roll off somewhat too early in the upper highs. Also, the isolation on them is very poor indeed - they only really isolate the highs, so using them on public transportation is a no go. No offense meant to music_4321, but I don't really see much point in these Sonys for $200+, when there are the wonderful sounding and the much more ergonomical, much better isolating RE-400, HF5, or PFE for $100 less.

 
Warm is the wrong word. Perhaps less cold would be (much) more accurate. The 7550 should never be described as warm.
 
As for isolation, that's a different subject, which was not being discussed (we were talking about FR).
 
FYI, many people do NOT want the isolation Etymotic, Custom, Westone or Shure IEMs offer. Have you wondered why many people have kept their EX1000, 7550 & EX600 (and many other IEMs) despite their "poor" isolation? The FAD Piano Forte earphones offer even less isolation, practically zero isolation, in fact, and yet people buy them AND keep them. That said, when people have asked me about the 3 Sony models above (and speacially the Piano Fortes), I always tell / remind them that isolation may be an issue for them, if isolation is a priority to them.
 
As for ergonomics, I'm 100% sure the vast majority of people will tell you that the 7550's ergonomics are excellent, far better than the Etys', in fact, one of the most comfortable IEMs I (and others) have ever tried, an IEM you literally forget you have on in a matter of seconds / minutes.
 
Perhaps not so relevant, but the MDR-7550 / EX800ST is made in Japan and seems to have better build than its more expensive sibling (the EX1000, which is also made in Japan).

 

[tigon_ridge]

Thanks for all your input, music. I'm definitely still holding the 7550 in consideration, even though the RE-400's price makes it so much more attractive at the moment.

 

[markanini]

You don't realize it luisdent, but you're getting totally owned by Inks. He's is providing evidence, all you have to offer is assertions. No offence.

 

[Erik_C]

On the subject of custom molds...I've had Westone custom molds for probably the last 7 years. They do not change the sound of the ER4. The are much, much more comfortable than anything else. I couldn't go back to stock one-size-fits-all tips for my ER4s.

 

[pacman46]

On the subject of custom molds...I've had Westone custom molds for probably the last 7 years. They do not change the sound of the ER4. The are much, much more comfortable than anything else. I couldn't go back to stock one-size-fits-all tips for my ER4s.

how are the insulation with these custom molds??

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

On the subject of custom molds...I've had Westone custom molds for probably the last 7 years. They do not change the sound of the ER4. The are much, much more comfortable than anything else. I couldn't go back to stock one-size-fits-all tips for my ER4s. 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

 
 

 

Ok, those look a million times better than my microsonics... ugh... how much are those?

 

[Erik_C]

Ok, those look a million times better than my microsonics... ugh... how much are those?

 
I don't remember precisely, but I think around $125. I don't see them as available on Westone's website anymore, though. And they block as much, if not more, sound than triflanges. For example, on a subway or an airplane, with music playing at a normal volume, you don't hear ANY background noise.

 

[Pianist]

Quote:

 
ER4S isn't that accurate, it lacks bass and has too much 1-3k [which narrows it's soundstage], the Olive-Welti curve shows this.

 
Quote:

You don't realize it luisdent, but you're getting totally owned by Inks. He's is providing evidence, all you have to offer is assertions. No offence.

 
Since when did the Olive-Welti curve become the new standard? The last time I checked, Etymotic's diffuse field compensation still remains the industry standard and has been for over 20 years now.

 

[vwinter]

...has too much 1-3k [which narrows it's soundstage]

Can you please supply a source that corroborates this statement, especially specifically the narrows the soundstage part?

And I mean a source that is not just based on experience. A scientific analysis that proves this to be true no matter the reproductive system.

Also, how much is too much, is that in relation to anything, and what would prove that having such would narrow the soundstage?

I ask for a very specific reason.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

Can you please supply a source that corroborates this statement, especially the narrows the soundstage part?

And I mean a source that is not just based on experience. A scientific analysis that proves this to be true no matter the reproductive system.

Also, how much is too much, is that in relation to anything, and what would prove that having such would narrow the soundstage?

I ask for a very specific reason.

That upper-midrange hump was intended for the ER4P/S to sound like monitor speakers; but imo, it's somewhat overly done and often sounds harsh. Whether that narrows the SS, I have no clue.

 

[vwinter]

Thanks for the interesting tidbit. It's the soundstage claim I'm really interested in though.

 

[markanini]

Pianist, mostly refering to the claims made on Goldenears behalf. But from what I gathered in the comment field in Rins blog, the results of Olive-Welti is in between Mueller and Russel room curves with the current ISO-DF (1904-2) as a base. Personally the way I EQ at the moment my ER4S is and average of Etymotics target and Olive-Welti. 

Regarding the emphasis in 1-3k and drawing parallels with historical trends between studio monitors and hifi-spealers. I doesnt necessairily have to be intentional for the ER4, it's as likely a coicidence related to the test conditions during ER4 R&D.