[Zorlac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ok, so here is the big question. For those of us who are hearing a difference, what is the easiest way to test for bit-perfect output so we can figure out which program is working and which is not? WASAPI sounds way rolled off and bloated.

Finally someone else with the question I have had for years!

Would be nice if there was software or maybe a small hardware gadget that could be used to verify the output signal. I wanna confirm my 2 channel 16bit 44.1kHz lossless wavs are being output to my DAC at exactly 2 channel 16bit 44.1kHz untouched.

I have never been able to find an answer on this yet and I would rather not buy a $1500+ Denon HT receiver and hook my computer up to it. There has got to be an easier solution via software or a small hardware test device or something...

 

[mtan002]

Out of curiosity from this thread, I downloaded Foobar and WASAPI yesterday and check if there is any difference from WMP 11 which I have been using for since it was out.

Surprise! There is and big too.

I use the SPDIF output from my mobo and pipe the signal into a Zhaolu D2 which feeds the Little Dot Mk 5 and finally into HD650. Using the same song, a jazz vocal and the same settings on all the dials (Zhaolu and the LD Mk 5), the volume is stronger and more warmth. The highs and lows are extended to my ears.

I think Foobar/WASAPI will replace WMP 11 from now on. Only thing I miss in Foobar is cover art I get in WMP 11.

I run Vista Ultimate in my system.

Have fun!

 

[Pushifer]

There's plugins for Foobar that give you coverart. i think the new version has some UI options to show them.

 

[olblueyez]

Ok so the answer is, Im wasting my time trying to find a test that will indicate if my computer is outputting bit-perfect through USB to my Dac right?

 

[Zorlac]

After a quick Google search, it appears there are hardware digital audio bitstream analyzers available, but be prepared to pay $2000+ for one.

Dont give up because I would love a solution just as much as you

Would be nice to have a device with a display that sat on top of my DAC that shows all info about the PCM stream. It would have a SPDIF coax/optical in and out. I dont see why a dedicated device like this would be super expensive. Maybe some uber folks in our DIY forum could build such a device? (hint hint)

Here is an example of a tester (I think this one costs over $4000):

http://www.sencore.com/markets/a-v-i...calibration/14

 

[Shahrose]

i just found this thread AFTER trying out and comparing WASAPI, ASIO, and DS. the differences are subtle but are definitely present. before i go on, i'll tell you this is not a placebo effect. i know what placebo is and i will admit to differences i can't hear. i can't hear the difference between 320kbps MP3's and FLAC with 90% of my recordings. i CAN notice a difference between 192 and 320kbps most of the time though.

my findings (after many trials):

ASIO: less bass than both WASAPI and DS, but feels a tiny bit tighter. the sound is also slightly brighter/clearer.

DS: the most bass, also the most boomy (remember though, these are subtle differences). it also sounds a bit darker than the other options.

WASAPI: imo, the best compromise of the two. bass level of DS if not very slightly less, but tighter. just as smooth as DS...can't really tell a difference.

these differences do exist on my system. they are pretty small, but noticeable.

oh btw, make sure you've set the same settings in foobar as you have in your vista sound mixer. i have my soundcard set to 24 bit 192khz in the mixer and 24 bit in foobar. this disables the equalizer/dolby processing effects for my soundcard as it bypasses the processor and goes through the DAC directly.

 

[HeadLover]

I am using WASAPI, the best output I know of for VISTA and probably any OS.
Smooth, fast, reliable, get a full control over the sound system, a 24 or even 32 bit output, and no need to set up many things like ASIO

Foobar2000 + WASAPI + VISTA is the best way to get bit perfect out of a PC (for now)

 

[milkweg]

I'm using the latest version of portable foobar and wasapi works perfectly in it on Vista and it has never caused foobar to crash either. Get the portable version of foobar because it keeps all it's settings inside an .ini file in foobar folder instead of writing to the registry.
That makes it less hassle for me when I switch user accounts. Same foobar settings in every account instead of having to reconfigure for each account. Plus you could even run it off a thumb drive if you wanted.

 

[MerlinWerks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ok so the answer is, Im wasting my time trying to find a test that will indicate if my computer is outputting bit-perfect through USB to my Dac right?

If you have a device that will decode DTS i.e. HT Reciever, download a DTS encoded wav file from HERE. If you get sound, you're bit perfect, if you get noise, you're not.

I'm not sure what all it would take, but I think a useful test would be to capture the output of whatever players you want to compare and use THIS to see if there are any differences. Should readily point out bloated bass or rolled off highs...

 

[P.J]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread is giving me a headache.

I agree with you

 

[Deep Funk]

I have been considering Foobar2000 for some time. I'll give it a run and if it beats the **** out of WMP11 and possibly VLC, oh yeah.

Does Foobar2000 also work with pcm?

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif i just found this thread AFTER trying out and comparing WASAPI, ASIO, and DS. the differences are subtle but are definitely present. before i go on, i'll tell you this is not a placebo effect. i know what placebo is and i will admit to differences i can't hear. i can't hear the difference between 320kbps MP3's and FLAC with 90% of my recordings. i CAN notice a difference between 192 and 320kbps most of the time though. my findings (after many trials): ASIO: less bass than both WASAPI and DS, but feels a tiny bit tighter. the sound is also slightly brighter/clearer. DS: the most bass, also the most boomy (remember though, these are subtle differences). it also sounds a bit darker than the other options. WASAPI: imo, the best compromise of the two. bass level of DS if not very slightly less, but tighter. just as smooth as DS...can't really tell a difference. these differences do exist on my system. they are pretty small, but noticeable. oh btw, make sure you've set the same settings in foobar as you have in your vista sound mixer. i have my soundcard set to 24 bit 192khz in the mixer and 24 bit in foobar. this disables the equalizer/dolby processing effects for my soundcard as it bypasses the processor and goes through the DAC directly.

Definitely placebo or a problem with your computer settings/hardware. ASIO and WASAPI will yield identical results, unless there's a glitch with the setup.

There's no bass modifications or treble alterations for the digital bypass these methods use (eg from foobar to sound card, it bypasses all other "hands"), they pass the audio stream unaltered to your sound card, all the 0's and 1's are in tact exactly as their origin. Your sound card then buffers them and sends them to your DAC according to its own internal clock.

 

[forciano]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Definitely placebo or a problem with your computer settings/hardware. ASIO and WASAPI will yield identical results, unless there's a glitch with the setup. There's no bass modifications or treble alterations for the digital bypass these methods use (eg from foobar to sound card, it bypasses all other "hands"), they pass the audio stream unaltered to your sound card, all the 0's and 1's are in tact exactly as their origin. Your sound card then buffers them and sends them to your DAC according to its own internal clock.

I just recently enabled asio on my card after using wasapi for many months. I have been using the same tubes on my amp for a couple of weeks before i actually changed to asio in foobar.

I did notice the difference, less bass but smoother, added detail and separation. It just seems like the music is more controlled adding smoothness to it all.

Maybe its just my setup, but if I'm loosing it at least I know I'm not the only one

 

[P.J]

Yes, DS has quite lower quality. Someone please compare ASIO and WASAPI

 

[Mad Max]

WASAPI is slighlty clearer, more open-sounding, slightly more extended in my rig. ASIO4ALL is slightly warmer, slightly darker. I couldn't get the usb-asio driver working.

I question how bit-perfect these things really are.

There's the receiver test, but is there a practical way to output a signal (from uncompressed pcm file/recording) via optical/coax spdif output into the input of another computer and see if the recorded data has the same CRC/CRC32 number as the original file prior to being transmitted?
I think this might be a true test of "bit-perfect"-ness.

The thought has occurred to me before, is it okay for there to be a little distortion during transmission as long as the bits or most of that define the data as dts/dd are untouched or something? I think about it a little more, and that makes no sense, so screw it, but am I on the right track? I should probably look this up already, lol.