[jsmiller58]

How does bass differ exactly? I'm coming from the Campfire Orion, which, on a whole, I didn't particularly enjoy

Just to clarify, in my last post I typed faster than I think…. Edited my post to reflect that in my opinion you get more of a physical rumble out of the right headphones than out of IEMs. As alway my opinion based on my experience…

Hard to put it into words…. With IEMs that pull off good bass you hear that bass. It goes deep, but it is a sound. With the right headphones not only do you hear the bass, but you get the physical sensation of your head actually shaking, a feeling that IEMs do not match. Just as headphones (in my opinion) cannot match the clarity of IEMs, IEMs cannot match the physical rumble of the right headphones…

Again, my experience only, it is nuanced…. Open back headphones have a hard time matching closed back headphones for rumbling bass and sub-bass. But with closed backs people report losing much of the soundstage benefits that are there with open backs.

If only we could get something with the soundstage and imaging of an open back, the bass and sub bass of a closed back, and crystal clarity of an IEM…!

 

[theveterans]

If only we could get something with the soundstage and imaging of an open back, the bass and sub bass of a closed back, and crystal clarity of an IEM…!

2 words: Focal Utopia, and yes it rumbles with that shaking headphone sensation during my multiple demo with it

 

[jsmiller58]

2 words: Focal Utopia, and yes it rumbles with that shaking headphone sensation during my multiple demo with it

Well, four thousand words…. Dollars…. Dollars… Dollars…

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Well, four thousand words…. Dollars…. Dollars… Dollars…

You can get one for $2000.

 

[thepiper92]

Just to clarify, in my last post I typed faster than I think…. Edited my post to reflect that in my opinion you get more of a physical rumble out of the right headphones than out of IEMs. As alway my opinion based on my experience…

Hard to put it into words…. With IEMs that pull off good bass you hear that bass. It goes deep, but it is a sound. With the right headphones not only do you hear the bass, but you get the physical sensation of your head actually shaking, a feeling that IEMs do not match. Just as headphones (in my opinion) cannot match the clarity of IEMs, IEMs cannot match the physical rumble of the right headphones…

Again, my experience only, it is nuanced…. Open back headphones have a hard time matching closed back headphones for rumbling bass and sub-bass. But with closed backs people report losing much of the soundstage benefits that are there with open backs.

If only we could get something with the soundstage and imaging of an open back, the bass and sub bass of a closed back, and crystal clarity of an IEM…!

Well, it would seem performance is either a compromise between feeling the music versus hearing the music to perfection. It's really difficult! I've always seen IEMs as a comprise between portability versus sound quality and portability...but it would seem iems do not rely on portability alone, and have qualities beyond simply portability, something I've never looked at. I've always seen IEMs as lesser version of headphones, but with portability as something that makes up for it...it's much easier to tote around a small case with in ears versus a rather large headphone case, but it would seem things are much more complex.

 

[Chris Kaoss]

So the FD7 would be an improvement over the PM3, even with over ear versus in ear? I've no way to compare, as I live in a small town, and can't try out higher end headphones. I've never experienced high end ($1000 +) iems or headphones, which is why I'm unsure of what path to take. If $1000 iems are better than my PM3, I'd be impressed, to say the least, but I certainly don't want to feel I'm downgrading

Despite i haven't heard the FD7, but the FD5, I'm sure they'll leave the PM-3 in the dust on every regard.

For me, i am very impressed by the performance of the higher tier single DD iems by FiiO.

But i've to say that there're other factors which comes into play for me.
I can't wear closed back headphones that long, except the SEM5, bc my ears are getting hot rather quickly.
So an iem is a pleasant change.
The FD5 hits the nail for fun, engaging music enjoyment, for me.
Never thought I can find what the D9200 has to offer in such a small package.
Best 330€ (FD5 + Final E tips) I've spend in a while. ( Right after the 290 € for the Mojo) ^^

Truly spoken, there're so much great iems out there I couldn't imagine.
Not that i would look any further.

 

[jsmiller58]

You can get one for $2000.

OK, two thousand words…. Dollars… Dollars… Dollars… To be sure, there are probably solutions that do come close to ticking most of the boxes, but the cost is still probably high, at least for mere mortals…

All kidding aside, over time costs come down as new products are introduced at the high end, so one day possibly Utopias (or their equivalent) will be more in reach for most, and we will be in, well, Utopia…!

 

[thepiper92]

OK, two thousand words…. Dollars… Dollars… Dollars… To be sure, there are probably solutions that do come close to ticking most of the boxes, but the cost is still probably high, at least for mere mortals…

All kidding aside, over time costs come down as new products are introduced at the high end, so one day possibly Utopias (or their equivalent) will be more in reach for most, and we will be in, well, Utopia…!

$2000 is a tad out of price range unfortunately

 

[thepiper92]

Despite i haven't heard the FD7, but the FD5, I'm sure they'll leave the PM-3 in the dust on every regard.

For me, i am very impressed by the performance of the higher tier single DD iems by FiiO.

But i've to say that there're other factors which comes into play for me.
I can't wear closed back headphones that long, except the SEM5, bc my ears are getting hot rather quickly.
So an iem is a pleasant change.
The FD5 hits the nail for fun, engaging music enjoyment, for me.
Never thought I can find what the D9200 has to offer in such a small package.
Best 330€ (FD5 + Final E tips) I've spend in a while. ( Right after the 290 € for the Mojo) ^^

Truly spoken, there're so much great iems out there I couldn't imagine.
Not that i would look any further. the

Despite i haven't heard the FD7, but the FD5, I'm sure they'll leave the PM-3 in the dust on every regard.

For me, i am very impressed by the performance of the higher tier single DD iems by FiiO.

But i've to say that there're other factors which comes into play for me.
I can't wear closed back headphones that long, except the SEM5, bc my ears are getting hot rather quickly.
So an iem is a pleasant change.
The FD5 hits the nail for fun, engaging music enjoyment, for me.
Never thought I can find what the D9200 has to offer in such a small package.
Best 330€ (FD5 + Final E tips) I've spend in a while. ( Right after the 290 € for the Mojo) ^^

Truly spoken, there're so much great iems out there I couldn't imagine.
Not that i would look any further.

So the FD5 would outdo the PM3? I'm certainly not trying to say the PM3 are the ultimate headphone...it's just the highest tier I can compare to...miles beyond the Orion for my tastes. I suppose I've been subjected to mid tier range and just don't understand what my next step should be.

 

[theveterans]

So the FD5 would outdo the PM3? I'm certainly not trying to say the PM3 are the ultimate headphone...it's just the highest tier I can compare to...miles beyond the Orion for my tastes. I suppose I've been subjected to mid tier range and just don't understand what my next step should be.

IMHO, you don't need to spend even 1K for an IEM that will seriously be an upgrade to PM3. Even the $320 Moondrop Blessing 2 is more than enough to show clear cut improvement in detail/resolution against the PM3

 

[thepiper92]

IMHO, you don't need to spend even 1K for an IEM that will seriously be an upgrade to PM3. Even the $320 Moondrop Blessing 2 is more than enough to show clear cut improvement in detail/resolution against the PM3

I do want to step into the $1000 range. I'm tired of increasing step by step, and want to experience what happens when I get to a new "level".

 

[jsmiller58]

$2000 is a tad out of price range unfortunately

For you and me both!

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

$2000 is a tad out of price range unfortunately

Focal Clear is less than $1000 new at Headphones.com and it is almost as good as Utopia with arguably better bass.

 

[theveterans]

I do want to step into the $1000 range. I'm tired of increasing step by step, and want to experience what happens when I get to a new "level".

Personal opinion at least with 1K IEMs, definitely a very appreciable upgrade and you won't definitely find glaring flaws in sound at those tier. Just personally, I usually recommend a slightly warmer tilt in tonality since they allow for ultra long periods at high SPL levels (80+dB) of listening without fatigue. My go-to at IEM 1K is definitely the Andromeda classic (my endgame IEM BTW) or Andromeda 2020 (IMO 2020 is a "safer" approach in tonality, but I absolutely love the slightly more treble presence of the OG/classic). Very wide and 3D sounding soundstage (for an IEM) with warmer tonality that lets you turn it up without that fatiguing spikes in upper mid frequencies. Think of it as jack-of-all trades, but definitely master of none at its competing tier (1K-6K level). You might find its sub-bass lacking compared to a planar headphone or DD IEM, but it's a very clean sounding sub-bass, just don't expect it shaking your ear canals

Focal Clear is less than $1000 new at Headphones.com and it is almost as good as Utopia with arguably better bass.

I would argue that Clear OG is 2 or 3 levels below Utopia in my experience A/Bing the two. In my opinion, Andromeda classic IEM trounces the Focal Clear OG in every sound category while Utopia is definitely a step above Andromeda in everything

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

I do want to step into the $1000 range. I'm tired of increasing step by step, and want to experience what happens when I get to a new "level".

If I had $1000 to spend on headphones or IEMs, I would buy one of these:

1) Focal Clear OG new
2) Hifiman Arya v2 used
3) Sony IER-Z1R used
4) UM MEST mkii (may be more like $1200)
5) Oriolus Isabellae.