[Thomasr]

Plus they are very uncomfortable and bad for your ears.

On a recent visit, my doctor/audiologist basically told me never to use IEMs again. Ever.

Open-back headphones - kept to moderate listening levels - are the only thing she would (somewhat reluctantly) endorse.

 

[willkins]

As other posters have said, I think they both have their advantages and disadvantages. I am therefore neutral.

Personally I think IEMs give you a lot more for what you pay for, both in terms of technicalities and tuning, until you reach roughly the $250 mark, where they break even for a bit, until full-sized headphones overtake them. That said, I haven't owned any super-expensive IEMs or headphones, so I can't really comment on end-game comparisons.

 

[jasonb]

As other posters have said, I think they both have their advantages and disadvantages. I am therefore neutral.

Personally I think IEMs give you a lot more for what you pay for, both in terms of technicalities and tuning, until you reach roughly the $250 mark, where they break even for a bit, until full-sized headphones overtake them. That said, I haven't owned any super-expensive IEMs or headphones, so I can't really comment on end-game comparisons.

You’ve got some good stuff in your signature for sure. Expensive enough.

 

[Rackhour]

On a recent visit, my doctor/audiologist basically told me never to use IEMs again. Ever.

Open-back headphones - kept to moderate listening levels - are the only thing she would (somewhat reluctantly) endorse.

I admit I’m not an audiologist, but shouldn’t this stance be laid to rest at last?

From an article published by the NYT:

The idea that earbuds are more damaging to hearing than other headphone types is just false, said Cory Portnuff, an audiologist at the University of Colorado Hospital. “The misconception stems from the thought that, because an earbud sits farther into your ear, it would do more damage than something that sits farther away.”

It makes sense that we would think earbuds are worse for our hearing since they send audio straight into the ear canal, he said, whereas other headphone styles that sit over or on the ear deliver sound from a greater distance. “However, what actually matters is the volume at your eardrum, not where it comes from.”

And down the line…

Dr. Daniel Fink, an internist and board chair of The Quiet Coalition, a nonprofit dedicated to reducing the effects of noise on health, was less permissive in his recommendations. “There is no such thing as a safe headphone,” he said, especially when so many people have to crank up the volume to compensate for loud environments around them.

The second doctor may be less permissive, but both quoted doctors say virtually the same thing: it’s the volume that matters. Very loud speakers and very loud earphones both will kill your hearing.

All the naysayers are going on the assumption that if you wear headphones, you will pump the volume to 11. Granted, if you’re trying to get a message across to the mainstream audience, it may be safer to be more conservative. And there is indeed a long history of people listening at dangerous volumes; even today, I still encounter people outside who play their music so loud I can hear it faintly when I sit next to them in public transit.

But I think it’s wrong to make such blanket statements and turn portable audio gear into the devil reincarnate. If you have the right gear in the right situation, then it’s very possible to enjoy portable music without risking hearing loss. If you’re in public, then wear highly isolating IEMs like Etymotic’s offerings or ANC buds like AirPods. If you’re alone at home and it’s quiet, then you can enjoy open backs at low volumes. Or closed backs at even lower volumes.

Bad car analogy time: this is like saying you shouldn’t drive a car because cars can be and have been used to maim or kill people. Headphones aren’t evil by nature. It’s all dependent on who uses them.

 

[Thomasr]

I admit I’m not an audiologist, but shouldn’t this stance be laid to rest at last?

From an article published by the NYT:


And down the line…

The second doctor may be less permissive, but both quoted doctors say virtually the same thing: it’s the volume that matters. Very loud speakers and very loud earphones both will kill your hearing.

My doctor's point was that the better the "seal", the more direct the impact on the eardrum, with IEMs typically creating the best seal by far.

Her second supporting point was that she and her colleagues are seeing an epidemic of hearing loss, especially among the young, directly correlated with increased use of earbuds, etc.

By the way, the reason I was even in to see an ear specialist? I recently developed tinnitus, at exactly the same time I started using IEMs extensively.

So my options at this point are:

1. Discount my doctor's advice and assume she's overblowing the risks, or
2. Listen to my doctor ... while I still can

 

[Rackhour]

My doctor's point was that the better the "seal", the more direct the impact on the eardrum, with IEMs typically creating the best seal by far.

Her second supporting point was that she and her colleagues are seeing an epidemic of hearing loss, especially among the young, directly correlated with increased use of earbuds, etc.

Right, but are the doctors keeping track of listening volumes? Almost every piece of audio equipment doesn’t start loud and go louder.

If IEMs are inherently bad, then why aren’t manufacturers being regulated like tobacco or alcohol companies?

That’s the general point I’m trying to make.

By the way, the reason I was even in to see an ear specialist? I recently developed tinnitus, at exactly the same time I started using IEMs extensively.

So my options at this point are:

1. Discount my doctor's advice and assume she's overblowing the risks, or
2. Listen to my doctor ... while I still can

The extra context helps. Like I said above, I was speaking more from a general point of view, and I realize that every person has their own circumstances. What works for A won’t work for B, and what works for B won’t work for A. It sounds like IEMs are your kryptonite.

 

[ThEvil0nE]

I go clamping for the most part whenever possible before I start shoving in

 

[Thomasr]

regulated like tobacco or alcohol companies?

... which weren't regulated at all for a really long time, leaving aside the US experiment with prohibition, which is a whole political discussion on its own.

Anyhow I'm not disagreeing with your fundamental point: listening levels are by far the most important factor driving hearing loss. I just don't think the risk is one-dimensional - that every presentation of 90db is exactly alike. At this point I assume (as far as potential to damage hearing is concerned) that 90db from a tight-fitting IEM > 90db from a closed-back > 90db from an open-back > 90db from speakers. We all need our logical shortcuts in life and this is now one of mine.

And with that, I'll stop polluting this thread with non-audiophile opinions. Enjoy your gear everyone, whatever it might be.

 

[Rattle]

Of course volume can be an issue. A lot of people listen loudly. The issue with IEMs is the pressure in the ear. Not only while sealed but while putting in and removing. I know lots of people I work with that have issues with their ears when they use IEMs I always tell them stay away from them and see how you feel. Most symptoms come back with more iem use for a lot of people. Plus dollar for dollar it's way worse sound.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

My doctor's point was that the better the "seal", the more direct the impact on the eardrum, with IEMs typically creating the best seal by far.

Her second supporting point was that she and her colleagues are seeing an epidemic of hearing loss, especially among the young, directly correlated with increased use of earbuds, etc.

By the way, the reason I was even in to see an ear specialist? I recently developed tinnitus, at exactly the same time I started using IEMs extensively.

So my options at this point are:

1. Discount my doctor's advice and assume she's overblowing the risks, or
2. Listen to my doctor ... while I still can

It's not IEM, any headphones increase risk of hearing damage if you listening at unsafe levels. IEMs actually can be safer as due to better isolation as you don't need to increase volume to drown background noise.

 

[csch92]

on travel i take iem's any day but at home i just wanna have my 660s 2s on

 

[csch92]

Of course volume can be an issue. A lot of people listen loudly. The issue with IEMs is the pressure in the ear. Not only while sealed but while putting in and removing. I know lots of people I work with that have issues with their ears when they use IEMs I always tell them stay away from them and see how you feel. Most symptoms come back with more iem use for a lot of people. Plus dollar for dollar it's way worse sound.

that is so true. i got multiple issues with my ears and didnt know how i got them. then i stopped used iems for a while and it cured me very good. but my galaxy buds 2 pro which dosent go that deep in to the canal i never have issues with.

 

[TWerk]

Deff always been an over ears guy. I just don't like the fit and comfort of using IEM's and I think the soundstage and general sound is better to me on a headphone. I've had IEM's that I kinda liked but I do think the overall sound is generally better with a headphone. I haven't found a use for IEM's - I use closed back when mobile if that is needed. With a headphone the sound is pushed around and involves the whole ear, not just stuck inside it and I think that is a general overall advantage and better simulates how we normally hear things around us, naturally.

Than again, I haven't really explored IEM's much at all because of this preference and my headphones really just being very satisfying.

 

[jasonb]

that is so true. i got multiple issues with my ears and didnt know how i got them. then i stopped used iems for a while and it cured me very good. but my galaxy buds 2 pro which dosent go that deep in to the canal i never have issues with.

Shove em deeeep. Etymotic 4 life!

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Flatheads (earbuds) are a perfect compromise, portable, don't go in deep, have decent soundstage and TOTL models match IEMs in SQ.