[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif Interesting. I've read some conflicting reports about the relative merits of these two dacs. A lot of people talk about the pico as competing with $1000 dacs, but I don't notice the same talk about the D10 being revered as a source in the same way. Not saying who is right...just pointing out an observed discrepancy.

To my ears, the Pico sounds better when driving another amplifier's input than when driving headphones, and it is pretty darn good with headphones. The Pico DAC/amp sounds gorgeous as a DAC/Preamp for my Woo GES and Stax O2 or HE60. The Pico DAC-only (to my ears) has even a little better depth and detail than that. However, I had several people listen to my Woo GES fed by the D10 optical DAC over the past few months, and in an A/B comparison to the Pico DAC/amp they could not tell whether I was using the Pico or the D10 to feed the signal into the GES.

 

[hockeyb213]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbulack /img/forum/go_quote.gif I bought a D10, intending to use it exclusively for its DAC, in my work rig with my SR-71A amp. And I have used it in that way with the SR-71A. With any of the various D10 Topkits under discussion rolled in, I am using the D10 solo. The two-box solution produces a slightly better sound, but the difference is not worth the daily setup and takedown of two boxes versus one. And there is plenty of WOW!!! factor from the D10 solo with either of my work phones: PK1 or SE530.

I don't know I really like the signature of my 71a and I don't mind carrying both on me. I think I will have rigs for my ipod where 71a is exclusive then I may use the d10 exclusive with my mac on the go but I really would like the d10 for the dac I am really a fan of the 71a's signature and would like to continue to use it. That being said I am probably going to buy the d10 tomorrow. I know I can make the d10 have a warm signature like the 71a but why play when I already have what I like

.

Will probably get a bluejeans mini-mini to jump the signal from the d10 into the 71a.

 

[bakhtiar]

Ok, 1 question. If we opamp rolling the D10, do the LINE-OUT's sound signature changes too?

 

[hockeyb213]

I believe the op-amps effect the signature of anything as long as it is going through the amp section. So if the line-out bypasses it then no. But if it doesn't then yes.

 

[bakhtiar]

Ok, got it

.

BTW, there must be a opamps+buffers combination which the sound signature is similar to SR-71A. If yes, then you will get a good DAC and AMP with the sound signature you prefer.

 

[roy_jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif To my ears, the Pico sounds better when driving another amplifier's input than when driving headphones, and it is pretty darn good with headphones. The Pico DAC/amp sounds gorgeous as a DAC/Preamp for my Woo GES and Stax O2 or HE60. The Pico DAC-only (to my ears) has even a little better depth and detail than that. However, I had several people listen to my Woo GES fed by the D10 optical DAC over the past few months, and in an A/B comparison to the Pico DAC/amp they could not tell whether I was using the Pico or the D10 to feed the signal into the GES.

That jives with what you've said before about the relative performance of optical compared to usb with the D10, as well as the earlier posters observations using only USB with the pico and D10. He seemed to suggest a larger difference in their relative USB performance, but it's still basically in line with the general sentiment.

I remember in your review that you'd tried to setup a meet to do source comparisons and that the D10 hadn't performed on the level you'd been expecting. I'm assuming that it's a subsequent evaluation that has shown the two to be very close...?

Did the second evaluation shed any light for you, in retrospect, as to the cause of the problem with the first meet? I remember you'd suggested that it could've been the result of not using the D10 as a pre-amp, but I'm a little foggy on the details.




Quote:

Originally Posted by sbulak I bought a D10, intending to use it exclusively for its DAC, in my work rig with my SR-71A amp. And I have used it in that way with the SR-71A. With any of the various D10 Topkits under discussion rolled in, I am using the D10 solo. The two-box solution produces a slightly better sound, but the difference is not worth the daily setup and takedown of two boxes versus one. And there is plenty of WOW!!! factor from the D10 solo with either of my work phones: PK1 or SE530.

I believe that you own a KICAS, right? I have a KICAS that I haven't been able to use yet, but am curious about the degree of difference you perceive between the D10 amp and the KICAS.

My plan has been to use the D10 as a DAC feeding the KICAS as a home setup, with a pair of Grado HF-2's as my primary phone. I'm still wrestling with whether to keep the D10 or go with a non-portable DAC-only solution. I like the versatility of the D10 for potential future portable use, but that will still be a while away for me...

 

[hockeyb213]

Yeah I am going the other way selling my fully balanced modded zhaolu 2.5 dac to go down to a d10 because I am focusing on my portable rig now.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones /img/forum/go_quote.gif That jives with what you've said before about the relative performance of optical compared to usb with the D10, as well as the earlier posters observations using only USB with the pico and D10. He seemed to suggest a larger difference in their relative USB performance, but it's still basically in line with the general sentiment. I remember in your review that you'd tried to setup a meet to do source comparisons and that the D10 hadn't performed on the level you'd been expecting. I'm assuming that it's a subsequent evaluation that has shown the two to be very close...? Did the second evaluation shed any light for you, in retrospect, as to the cause of the problem with the first meet? I remember you'd suggested that it could've been the result of not using the D10 as a pre-amp, but I'm a little foggy on the details.

In the one comparison where the D10 coax input didn't fare well vs other DACs, we tried to use an SPDIF distribution center to feed one transport into 6 DACS. We were using a mishmash of digital cables to the box and to each DAC, and various analog interconnects to connect the DACs back to a preamp, and then another mix and match of interconnects to connect 3-4 different amps to the pre-amp. And then several listeners trying the DACs, but none of us had the same amp or headphones to listen with (trying to have 4 people listen at the same time). I was using a SPC video cable as my coax input cable, and don't even recall the interconnects we used to connect the DAC to the pre-amp. There is no way it could be a fair comparison.

The D10's DAC via optical is closer to the Pico's DAC via USB, than the D10's USB DAC is to the Pico. The D10's DAC only pulls ahead of the Pico's DAC (in areas like micro-detail, space, ambience, soundstage) when using optical with native 24/96 files. There is a slight improvement in dynamics and liveliness to the D10 output when using the headphone-out to drive the other amp rather than the D10 line out - but that may be due to the difference in output levels - the D10 line-out is fairly soft compared to other DACs with a line out only. The D10 headphone out in high gain at max volume is closer to the output level of the Pico DAC-only line out.

 

[roy_jones]

Yeah, now that you recapped some of the issues with the initial evaluation of the D10 DAC, the problems you experienced are coming back to me. It can be tricky to get good evaluations of sources under meet conditions.

Your comments about the relative magnitude of difference between the pico and D10, depending on whether they're being compared via USB or, in the case of the D10, optical, sounds consistent and gels with what I've read elsewhere.

It seems Justin is to be congratulated on his successful USB implementation, as it could be argued that achieving excellent sound quality via USB is technically more difficult than doing so over more conventional connections. I think if I were having to use USB exclusively, I would lean more towards the pico.


hockeyb213, I noticed your zhaolu FS and was curious about it given your interest in a D10, but I actually own a modded zhaolu that arrived damaged, and that experience has caused me to be cautious about the idea of possibly repeating that experience, as irrational as that fear likely is.

Does your zhaolu have a zapfiltered discrete output? I'm guessing not, but have heard that it makes a tremendous difference. I actually heard one at a meet, but as I said earlier, I find evaluating sources under meet conditions to be tricky. Long time ago, too.

 

[roy_jones]

dbl post

 

[hockeyb213]

um I would have to ask fallenangel he was the one who popped all the mods into it. It sounds fantastic I just have no reason for it anymore I need a portable dac for my portable rig now but the fact it is balanced makes it stand out from a normal one

 

[Anouk]

Hello, Well I am temporary using the d10 only because I have noise problems with my woo and dx1000. I must say thought he d10 sounds VERY good with the dx1000 which is 64 ohm and 105db.
Greetings, Anouk,

 

[lastdodobird]

Is it worth getting the D10 over the D3 even if you aren't planning to use the optical or coaxial?

 

[HiFlight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lastdodobird /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is it worth getting the D10 over the D3 even if you aren't planning to use the optical or coaxial?

I would say so. The D10 can be recharged via USB, whereas the D3 is AAA cells only. No recharge capablitlity. (you can use rechargeable AAAs, but they need to be removed to charge externally) This may or may not be a deciding factor for you.

 

[rhw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lastdodobird /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is it worth getting the D10 over the D3 even if you aren't planning to use the optical or coaxial?

That's your personal decision.
The D10 sounds a touch more open and natural with the right opamp than the D3. The D3 has similar qualities like transparence ......
With the 5 AAA batteries or rechargeables the D3 has more power than the D10, lasting for a longer time.