[purrin]

Only FR and jitter @24/88. I haven't run a full suite of tests because I don't really care that much at this time. I have plenty on my hands with job, family, and headphone measurements.
 
My hypothesis is this: There are a lot of things that we can tell with our ears for which appropriate measurement methods have not yet been developed.
 
I've done CSDs, FR, full spectrum distortion, HD distortion by order, etc. I think combined they give us some good ideas, but they hardly scratch the surface of what we hear with headphones, which commit gross errors compared to amps or DACs.

 

[Radio_head]

Quote:

Why not be a bit more charitable? Your argument is solid and convincing based on your tests and experience, throwing suspicions about the moral character and financial status of posters adds nothing. 

Because he's not a politican who always has to be politically correct lest his followers desert him.  He's a hobbyist who spends too much time and effort in the hobby to see it ruined and occasionally voices his thoughts about how and why they ruin it.

 

[tzjin]

Guys, this can never be a discussion because neither side is willing to even consider the other's views. If you enjoy your transparent $150 DAC, just be happy and don't question those who enjoy their $1000 DAC. It's not your money anyways.

 

[paradoxper]

Does the subjectivity ever end? What if I said the HD650 off an ODAC/O2 was better
than 007/009 BHSE. I mean, dont some of us make absurd and "wrongful" claims?

 

[Shike]

Quote:

To +/- 0.1db (as per my usual practice with headphone HD measurements.) SPL weighed A. Not that it matters as both DACs measure flat - yes I actually measured their frequency responses. I also have various coarse (the noise floor on my measuring equipment goes only about 135db down) J-Test jitter measurements of various DACs, but I haven't hit the ODAC yet. I've seen notable differences on the "jitter spectrum", so I think it's working.

 
Since you ran measurements, could you actually provide them?  What testing gear and software did you use for the measurements (if it applies)?  Can you also supply more information about the testing methodology you used?
 
I suspect that the sync between the two would be the largest issue before measurements though, Nick found it extremely difficult to have things sync properly for testing beyond audibility.  How did you ensure that the sources were synced properly?

 

[purrin]

Quote:

Why not be a bit more charitable? Your argument is solid and convincing based on your tests and experience, throwing suspicions about the moral character and financial status of posters adds nothing. 

 
Because one aspect of this is science. The science behind the motivation behind these types of posts. As we all know, motivation can skew outcomes. I myself have been criticized for this and I think it's a valid criticism. I think it would be interesting to graph income mean/averages and distribution on a bell curve for the following two groups:
 

• People who own DACs of $1000 MSRP or more who don't care about objectivist-subjective debates.
• People who fit a particular pattern: 1) say that people who own DACs which cost more than $1000+ are subject to the placebo effect because their DACs must sound no better than the ODAC; 2) cite others' people studies or writings because they themselves lack deep understanding of what the measurements; 3) Cite the need for blind testing despite not having subject themselves to blind tests between the ODAC and other said $1000+ DACs.

 
That being said, I do very much prefer the ODAC to a $300, $400 and a $700 DAC that I've heard. And that there is A LOT bad expensive equipment out there.
 
ADD: Heck, I wouldn't even group even Nwavguy himself into group 2.

 

[purrin]

Quote:

 
Since you ran measurements, could you actually provide them?  What testing gear and software did you use for the measurements (if it applies)?  Can you also supply more information about the testing methodology you used?
 
I suspect that the sync between the two would be the largest issue before measurements though, Nick found it extremely difficult to have things sync properly for testing beyond audibility.  How did you ensure that the sources were synced properly?

 
You can find jitter measurements on my site. I'm working long hours away a little bit away from home for the next 10 days or so, but will provide results when I get a chance. I used the CLIO input/output breakout box for the FR measurements with a sine sweep from ARTA. Don't count on it as I have other priorities and commitments measuring headphones and IEMs
 
I wrote a macro script (AutoHotKey) to press play on the correct moments for each player (J. River actually reacts a little slower than Foobar, but I think it's because of my settings). My method was to instruct my wife to play input A or C, switch to B (no input - for pause of silence of a few seconds), and then switch back to A or C.
 
Gotta go! Good luck everyone!

 

[Shike]

Quote:

 
You can find jitter measurements on my site. I'm working away from home for the next 14 weeks, but will provide results when I get a chance. I used the CLIO input/output breakout box for the FR measurements with a sine sweep from ARTA.
 
I wrote a macro script (AutoHotKey) to press play on the correct moments for each player. My method was to instruct my wife to play input A or C, switch to B (no input - for pause of silence of a few seconds), and then switch back to A or C.
 
Gotta go! Good luck everyone!

 
When you get a second to reply to this, just one last question.  What was the higher priced DAC you used and how was it connected?  Equally, were both using WASAPI?
 
I find it somewhat hard to believe you heard a night and day difference, but then again the DACs I've tested consisted of a Benchmark, a DacMagic, Steamer, and a Cary Xciter.  The two I own(ed) was the Xciter and still have the DacMagic.

 

[purrin]

Quote:

Because he's not a politican who always has to be politically correct lest his followers desert him.  He's a hobbyist who spends too much time and effort in the hobby to see it ruined and occasionally voices his thoughts about how and why they ruin it.

 
Exactly. I take it somewhat personally because its these very fringe false-objectivists with no deep understanding of the specific measurements they cite nor substantial (or any) experience with the equipment which they deride as placebo, which give people (hobbyists in general) the wrong impression and idea on measurements and how useful they can actually be.

 

[purrin]

Quote:

 
When you get a second to reply to this, just one last question.  What was the higher priced DAC you used and how was it connected?  Equally, were both using WASAPI?
 
I find it somewhat hard to believe you heard a night and day difference, but then again the DACs I've tested consisted of a Benchmark, a DacMagic, Steamer, and a Cary Xciter.  The two I own(ed) was the Xciter and still have the DacMagic.

 
Both were using wasabi via USB and soy sauce. One of the USB cables did have foil on it though: http://www.head-fi.org/t/617026/usb-cable-and-sound-quality#post_8555838 (And no, I wasn't serious about the foil - I like my cables cheap.)

 

[Shike]

Quote:

 
Both were using wasabi via USB and soy sauce. One of the USB cables did have foil on it though: http://www.head-fi.org/t/617026/usb-cable-and-sound-quality#post_8555838 (And no, I wasn't serious about the foil - I like my cables cheap.)

 
Soy Sauce?  Wasabi?  And this didn't answer the DAC used . . .

I'm  guessing auto-correct had fun? >_>'

 

[purrin]

PWD2. Heh-yeah.
 
And I should also mention that I felt the ODAC was on par with a $3000 DAC which I had on loan for over a month - won't say anything more.
 
EDIT: Blind test! Blind test! Why is it that the fringe objectivists never shout "Blind test! Prove it" when the ODAC defeats a $3000 DAC but not the other way around. Hmmm, strange how standards are applied.
 
PWD2 kicked ODAC's ass tho. Just way more controlled and tighter sounding, not just in bass but throughout entire spectrum.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

Why not be a bit more charitable? Your argument is solid and convincing based on your tests and experience, throwing suspicions about the moral character and financial status of posters adds nothing. 

 
It adds a perception of the premise for the baseless objectivist fanatics. Is that over the board? I quite liked it. And I don't think it contained a moral claim, rather an onthogical one since it contained the abstract metaphysical paradigm "soul". 

 
Edit: nevermind! 

 

[TWIFOSP]

I have yet to ever see a properly conducted blind test.  Without first measuring exactly what the test subjects are capable of hearing, the entire test is pointless and does not apply to all listeners.  Only the listeners of the test.

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

 
When you get a second to reply to this, just one last question.  What was the higher priced DAC you used and how was it connected?  Equally, were both using WASAPI?
 
I find it somewhat hard to believe you heard a night and day difference, but then again the DACs I've tested consisted of a Benchmark, a DacMagic, Steamer, and a Cary Xciter.  The two I own(ed) was the Xciter and still have the DacMagic.

I got the impression he was saying the two DACs sounded different and one sounded better than the other.
I didn't get night and day out of his statement.
 
What were your impressions/results of the 4 DACs?