[silversurfer616]

Having a few dacs sitting around, I often feel like I am over the TT2 and so try something else only to be reminded how good the TT2 dac is.
There’s a certain beauty of sound to it that’s hard to articulate. I feel it(you are right, I am one of the guys not interested in measurements) and that’s how I measure/evaluate gear.
To seriously improve on it, I would have to sell parts of my art collection…not yet ready to do that.
Re poster above, I also had the Bryston amp but found it lacking or let’s say mediocre. But that’s just my ears.

 

[Christer]

As someone who loves Chord products, I think, the new £4750 asking price for the TT2 is a bit steep on the current market when you only want a headphone DAC/amp. With a speaker setup the case might be different.

Let's focus on headphones now. When the TT2 first came out in early 2019, it was £3995. A real bargain in my opinion.
Now with some patience you can get a used TT2 on the second-hand market around £3000, even below 3 grand. That again is a bargain, although your warranty will be out or very limited.

I tried a lot of DAC/amp combinations around £2000-4000 and they are indeed very good. Some of them in some respect are better than the TT2, but if you look at the whole picture, the TT2 still wins out on a coherent and flawless performance.

To give an example, the Bryston BHA-1 is a fabulous SS amp. Very clean and clear, very punchy with good spaciousness combined with a capable DAC like the Soekris 2541, Qutest or RME ADI2.

I also connected the TT2 to the Bryston, which utterly destroyed all the other DACs mentioned. (3D spaciousness and naturalness on the TT2 as a DAC is just out of this world compared to the others.)

After these thoughts only one question remains. What does the BHA-1 add or remove from the TT2 for headphone use only?

Well, at first the excellent Bryston SS amp seems to add more punch, the sound is more 'stretched'. A fake improvement in clarity?
As you listen a few minutes though, it is easy to realise that the space becomes flatter, less 3 dimensional. There is an extra sense of punch with the Bryson, but definitely less refinement and texture in the bass. What you gain with the 'TT2 only' is a better positioning and a lot more natural and lifelike feel of space, although in an ever so slightly softer/more 'micro-rounded' manner.

While the Bryston adds extra punch and energy, it looses out on natural 3D spaciousness. The BHA-1 does upper mids and treble in a slightly aggressive way. This contributes to the exceptional sense of clarity and detail with this amp, but also takes away from the pleasure of long-term listening.

At £3000/3500 (used price here and there) the Bryston with a good DAC is a real bargain. At the same time, the TT2 is an even better bargain if you value spaciousness, better 3D positioning and a warmer, softer; more micro-dynamically rounded sound but with equal amount of details.

At £4750 the 3year old TT2 is getting more challenging to recommend when you can buy outstanding combos for half the price on the second-hand market. Still, Chord remains exceptionally special. Special in perfect 3D positioning, amazing soundstage depth, and a smooth and ear-friendly sound while providing all the resolution and detail retrieval other similarly priced devices can only dream of.

The combination of smoothness, clarity, detail retrieval, 3D spaciousness with exceptional depth is what makes Chord DACs unique.

Hello , while I generally agree with you regarding the SQ depth 3D and such important aspects, I disagree with you strongly when you say TT2 was a bargain at 3995 Pounds!

In my strong opinion it was NOT! and IMO NO Chord DAC has EVER been a bargain from a price point of view!

In the real World, where many have to work hard and often save up to be able afford such expensive toys as Chord dacs and other similar VERY expensive toys ,
THE one and ONLY Chord product I have yet encountered where there is imo at least "some" reasonable relation between SQ and price asked is Qutest!
And that is why with my limited resourches I bought a Qutest instead of a TT2 or Dave.

With Qutest "corners have definitely been cut" and production "pennies have been saved", for example by using a horrible little micro usb as power connection and a not optimal smps to give just two examples.
But in SE-Asia I got mine at a decent enough price I was willing to pay. And provided I "ran it" off grid instead of via very varying power grid quality in SE-Asia it sounded good, and still does so on a daily basis, especially once an Mscaler had been added.
Cheers CC

 

[betula]

Hello , while I generally agree with you regarding the SQ depth 3D and such important aspects, I disagree with you strongly when you say TT2 was a bargain at 3995 Pounds!

In my strong opinion it was NOT! and IMO NO Chord DAC has EVER been a bargain from a price point of view!

In the real World, where many have to work hard and often save up to be able afford such expensive toys as Chord dacs and other similar VERY expensive toys ,
THE one and ONLY Chord product I have yet encountered where there is imo at least "some" reasonable relation between SQ and price asked is Qutest!
And that is why with my limited resourches I bought a Qutest instead of a TT2 or Dave.

With Qutest "corners have definitely been cut" and production "pennies have been saved", for example by using a horrible little micro usb as power connection and a not optimal smps to give just two examples.
But in SE-Asia I got mine at a decent enough price I was willing to pay. And provided I "ran it" off grid instead of via very varying power grid quality in SE-Asia it sounded good, and still does so on a daily basis, especially once an Mscaler had been added.
Cheers CC

I meant £3995 was a bargain compared to the new £4750 price. Bargain is a very relative term by the way. Some other people could jump at you the same way for buying Qutest and MScaler + whatever amp you are using with them. That chain probably cost more than a TT2.
Also, this is not the real world. This is a hi-fi forum.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I tried a lot of DAC/amp combinations around £2000-4000 and they are indeed very good. Some of them in some respect are better than the TT2, but if you look at the whole picture, the TT2 still wins out on a coherent and flawless performance.



The combination of smoothness, clarity, detail retrieval, 3D spaciousness with exceptional depth is what makes Chord DACs unique.

Agree!

Actually TT2 stop me to keep looking around for external solid state amplifier (after tried so many of them), and that is definitely a good news to my wallet.

 

[betula]

Agree!

Actually TT2 stop me to keep looking around for external solid state amplifier (after tried so many of them), and that is definitely a good news to my wallet.

With 90% of headphones the TT2 is all you'll ever need.

 

[alekc]

With 90% of headphones the TT2 is all you'll ever need.

@betula until you'll find an amp that adds some bits missing from TT2 alone even with easy to drive headphones

 

[LCMusicLover]

@betula until you'll find an amp that adds some bits missing from TT2 alone even with easy to drive headphones

I spent a fair amount of time during my recent Atrium loaner demo comparing:

mTT2 ==> Atrium
mTT2 ==> DSHA-3F ==> Atrium
mTT2 XLR analog out ==> Audio-gd Master 11 ==> Atrium
(also mScaler coax out ==> Master 11 ==> Atrium … but that introduces another DAC)

Definitely some differences, mostly headstage and imaging, 3F seemed best — more image depth and clarity. TT2 stage seemed a bit more wrap-around/enveloping, while 3F presented a more out-in-front stage. All the music was there from all three, but 3F tended to resolve different parts more clearly. But really very close — certainly not very significant. And some might prefer the TT2 sound, so not necessarily’better’, more just ‘different’.

 

[Christer]

@betula until you'll find an amp that adds some bits missing from TT2 alone even with easy to drive headphones

And I would add to that and until you have also heard the difference between TT2 on its own AND with an Mscaler added with well recorded complex large scale symphonic music.
And possibly also via pre-uscaled music like PGGB or HQP ?

In real HIFI terms there is simply NO OTHER SUCH demanding and revealing type of test material you can submit any link in ANY HIFI chain to, than sometimes up to 100 instrumentalists each playing their individual instruments at different dynamic levels /amplitudes at the same time with all the different timbres and dynamic shades competing to be heard via a recording as close to how they sound live either from good seats in, or up on stage, in a good hall. as the goal in strict HI FI terms.
And if you add both several vocal soloists and a choir or two, as is so often the case with large scale Operas by Verdi or Wagner to give just two examples of ULTIMATE complexity test material.
Modern POP and ROCK Electronica genres rarely even get close to that, in any sense. And almost always completely lack any actual reference points in any real HIFI context.
Yes it can be VERY loud even dangerously loud .
But that has little to do with HIFI,SQ or Dynamics.

The fact that possibly many or even most here? have not even once! been to a live classical concert is something that IMO seriously limits their credibility in HIFI SQ discussions .
I have never heard any POP or Rock with anything that even approches the often HUGE dynamic range of large scale ART Music. I may have missed it if it exsists?
With such music the dynamic range can hover around 80-90 dB , ranging from a mere whisper at the threshold of the noisefloor of the system ,while lots of POP is only WAY TOO loud most the time and with hardly any actual changes much in dynamics for the 4-5 minutes an average Pop Track lasts.
SUMMIT FI testing also needs Summit FI Test Music Material imho. Cheers CC

 

[betula]

And I would add to that and until you have also heard the difference between TT2 on its own AND with an Mscaler added with well recorded complex large scale symphonic music.
And possibly also via pre-uscaled music like PGGB or HQP ?

In real HIFI terms there is simply NO OTHER SUCH demanding and revealing type of test material you can submit any link in ANY HIFI chain to, than sometimes up to 100 instrumentalists each playing their individual instruments at different dynamic levels /amplitudes at the same time with all the different timbres and dynamic shades competing to be heard via a recording as close to how they sound live either from good seats in, or up on stage, in a good hall. as the goal in strict HI FI terms.
And if you add both several vocal soloists and a choir or two, as is so often the case with large scale Operas by Verdi or Wagner to give just two examples of ULTIMATE complexity test material.
Modern POP and ROCK Electronica genres rarely even get close to that, in any sense. And almost always completely lack any actual reference points in any real HIFI context.
Yes it can be VERY loud even dangerously loud .
But that has little to do with HIFI,SQ or Dynamics.

The fact that possibly many or even most here? have not even once! been to a live classical concert is something that IMO seriously limits their credibility in HIFI SQ discussions .
I have never heard any POP or Rock with anything that even approches the often HUGE dynamic range of large scale ART Music. I may have missed it if it exsists?
With such music the dynamic range can hover around 80-90 dB , ranging from a mere whisper at the threshold of the noisefloor of the system ,while lots of POP is only WAY TOO loud most the time and with hardly any actual changes much in dynamics for the 4-5 minutes an average Pop Track lasts.
SUMMIT FI testing also needs Summit FI Test Music Material imho. Cheers CC

The way you phrase your opinion almost comes across as offensive. Someone more sensitive than me could easily think you are judgemental and pretentious when you presume a lot of TT2 owners listen to crap quality files and the only real music worth listening to is classical and opera.

I listened to the TT2 with MScaler, listened to the Dave alone and with MScaler. In my opinion the MScaler does improve the sound a lot, the image you 'see' in your head becomes a lot sharper and cleaner, a lot more 3D. Almost like seeing the band playing in front of you as a holographic picture. That said, the MScaler pretty much doubles the price when we are talking about the TT2. Whether if it is worth it will come down to personal budget and ears that can appreciate the improvement. I can hear the improvement, but a second-hand TT2 is already a stretch to my current budget. (You will argue here that yout Qutest + MScaler + amp is a better choice than a TT2, but your combo is already pretty much 50% more expensive than a used TT2. Qutest with the MScaler and amp might sound better than TT2 alone, but the TT2 is a lot better DAC than the Qutest. So when the time comes, in a year or two for me it will be easier to add an MScaler to the TT2 if I decide to do so. )

I wouldn't classify people based on their music preferences either. I listen to some classical, but that is not my main interest when it comes to music genres. My musical taste is quite diverse. I get what you say about complexity of orchestral pieces, but I think nowadays it is a rare audiophile who only listens to classical.

Regarding your presumption people using crap audio files, that would have been a valid point as well if it was phrased in a more polite manner. I am quite happy with my huge FLAC (and 24 bit) library I built up throughout the years. Listening to FLAC files in bit-perfect mode still sounds better to me than any of the streaming services I tried.

I have been to many classical concerts which I enjoyed, even though this is not my main musical interest. My brother is a violin player in a Swiss orchestra. What you technically try to state regarding dynamics and so on might be true, but again the judgemental way you interpret your opinion won't make you popular.

 

[betula]

@betula until you'll find an amp that adds some bits missing from TT2 alone even with easy to drive headphones

I tried some good amps with the TT2. As @LCMusicLover said, the result was better in some aspects, worse in others. Better spaciousness, tighter bass but lesser feel of 3D staging and natural timbre... I think with an external headphone amplifier technically it is challenging to improve the TT2's sound without making compromises elsewhere. It is more about sound colouration to match your specific taste. The sound will be different which might be more to your liking, but certainly not better in an objective way. Especially if you take into account the price of the amp (£1000+ amps that are even worth a try at this stage...)

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I tried some good amps with the TT2. As @LCMusicLover said, the result was better in some aspects, worse in others. Better spaciousness, tighter bass but lesser feel of 3D staging and natural timbre... I think with an external headphone amplifier technically it is challenging to improve the TT2's sound without making compromises elsewhere. It is more about sound colouration to match your specific taste. The sound will be different which might be more to your liking, but certainly not better in an objective way. Especially if you take into account the price of the amp (£1000+ amps that are even worth a try at this stage...)

x2

After tried so many SS amps, nothing can touch the fluidity and effortless transient TT2's headphone out that make overall listening experience close to lifelike feel. Yes, some amps deliver bigger soundstage, some other with more rock solid impact, airier feeling etc, but none of them simply enhance the TT2 quality 100% (without cons). Make me "give up" on pursue solid state desktop amp for now.

Some exceptions are few unique sounding SS amp that may pick my interest (to focus on character not technicality), or of course, go to tube amp route.

 

[betula]

x2

After tried so many SS amps, nothing can touch the fluidity and effortless transient TT2's headphone out that make overall listening experience close to lifelike feel. Yes, some amps deliver bigger soundstage, some other with more rock solid impact, airier feeling etc, but none of them simply enhance the TT2 quality 100% (without cons). Make me "give up" on pursue solid state desktop amp for now.

Unless, there are few unique sounding SS amp that may pick my interest (to focus on character not technicality), or of course, go to tube amp route.

Very much agreed with your assessment.
Fluidity and effortless transients is an excellent way to describe the TT2's sound.

 

[Christer]

The way you phrase your opinion almost comes across as offensive. Someone more sensitive than me could easily think you are judgemental and pretentious when you presume a lot of TT2 owners listen to crap quality files and the only real music worth listening to is classical and opera.

I listened to the TT2 with MScaler, listened to the Dave alone and with MScaler. In my opinion the MScaler does improve the sound a lot, the image you 'see' in your head becomes a lot sharper and cleaner, a lot more 3D. Almost like seeing the band playing in front of you as a holographic picture. That said, the MScaler pretty much doubles the price when we are talking about the TT2. Whether if it is worth it will come down to personal budget and ears that can appreciate the improvement. I can hear the improvement, but a second-hand TT2 is already a stretch to my current budget. (You will argue here that yout Qutest + MScaler + amp is a better choice than a TT2, but your combo is already pretty much 50% more expensive than a used TT2. Qutest with the MScaler and amp might sound better than TT2 alone, but the TT2 is a lot better DAC than the Qutest. So when the time comes, in a year or two for me it will be easier to add an MScaler to the TT2 if I decide to do so. )

I wouldn't classify people based on their music preferences either. I listen to some classical, but that is not my main interest when it comes to music genres. My musical taste is quite diverse. I get what you say about complexity of orchestral pieces, but I think nowadays it is a rare audiophile who only listens to classical.

Regarding your presumption people using crap audio files, that would have been a valid point as well if it was phrased in a more polite manner. I am quite happy with my huge FLAC (and 24 bit) library I built up throughout the years. Listening to FLAC files in bit-perfect mode still sounds better to me than any of the streaming services I tried.

I have been to many classical concerts which I enjoyed, even though this is not my main musical interest. My brother is a violin player in a Swiss orchestra. What you technically try to state regarding dynamics and so on might be true, but again the judgemental way you interpret your opinion won't make you popular.

Hello betula, and thanks for your response , my sincere apologies offered . Sorry, I can be a bit too blunt and insensitive, but no offence was intended.
Good to hear that you not only took my comments " wie gemeint von mir" und ohne beleidigt zu werden. I am also happy to see that we agree on the actual facts points I so bluntly posted. Yes TT2 is as you say a better dac than my humble Qutest. And of course it also translates to other genres than Western Classical Music. I also listen to LOTS of other music like Asian and World Music. Via my big electrostatic speakers I listen MORE to such music than Western Classical. But in my experience Qutest/HMS is a more "musical" combo than TT2 on its own. To me even Dave on its own can sound a bit laboured and digital in the negative sense of the word digital. What HMS brings for me is a more effortless sound that brings me closer to my ideal reference point live acoustic music.
And TT2 is more resolving of VERY low level detail and minute acoustic cues like reverb tails and such which are the really tiny things that again in my experience basically only exist with acoustic music.
Dave is probably still one of the most resolving consumer dacs on the market? But even Dave needs mscaling to really blossom with the 99% acoustic music I listen to.
To get back to our initial takes again,for me personally, neither TT2 nor Dave are bargains price-wise. But I am a bit tempted by a second hand TT2 currently on offer for around 3,5k Euro in Sweden. On the other hand, that is still more than what I could have bought a TT2 for new in Malaysia when it was released.
Cheers CC

 

[betula]

Hello betula, and thanks for your response , my sincere apologies offered . Sorry, I can be a bit too blunt and insensitive, but no offence was intended.
Good to hear that you not only took my comments " wie gemeint von mir" und ohne beleidigt zu werden. I am also happy to see that we agree on the actual facts points I so bluntly posted. Yes TT2 is as you say a better dac than my humble Qutest. And of course it also translates to other genres than Western Classical Music. I also listen to LOTS of other music like Asian and World Music. Via my big electrostatic speakers I listen MORE to such music than Western Classical. But in my experience Qutest/HMS is a more "musical" combo than TT2 on its own. To me even Dave on its own can sound a bit laboured and digital in the negative sense of the word digital. What HMS brings for me is a more effortless sound that brings me closer to my ideal reference point live acoustic music.
And TT2 is more resolving of VERY low level detail and minute acoustic cues like reverb tails and such which are the really tiny things that again in my experience basically only exist with acoustic music.
Dave is probably still one of the most resolving consumer dacs on the market? But even Dave needs mscaling to really blossom with the 99% acoustic music I listen to.
To get back to our initial takes again,for me personally, neither TT2 nor Dave are bargains price-wise. But I am a bit tempted by a second hand TT2 currently on offer for around 3,5k Euro in Sweden. On the other hand, that is still more than what I could have bought a TT2 for new in Malaysia when it was released.
Cheers CC

All good.

 

[Zenifyx]

Hi, I'm running my headphones from the back outputs of my TT2.
Just wanted to ask, for those running off the back outputs, do you use high or low gain? I'm assuming high gain is generally better (1 resistor less in the chain) but it's abit scary with so much power into the headphones.

Also, I've always seen 2x XLR into 4-pin XLR adapter as the recommendation, but wondering if it would be feasible to use 4.4mm female instead of 4-pin xlr? The only downside I can think of (and am worried about) is the possibility of shorting when plugging in (unlike the XLR connector, I imagine the 1st ring would contact all 4 (L-/L+/R-/R+) briefly during insertion, and so on).
Any advice? Thanks.