The hugo2/mscaler combo is arguably better than a solo tt2/dave. not my words!! h2 becomes a 1 million tap dac. i definitely prefer my h2/hms over a solo dave having heard dave. this point should be important for those on a budget. of course adding a hms to tt2/dave we are in a different galaxy!
I hate to add to your predicament, but if you like the HmS/H2 then you will love owning a HmS/TT2. I’ve had the H2 and Qutest with the mScaler and while they were amazing, the TT2 + HmS is in another ball park.
My personal preference is to upgrade the source and when you’re satisfied, explore new headphones.
Thanks for the quick reply jarnopp. Yes I will be using red for pin 2, just kind of need a bit of reassurance before I plug them in tomorrow. I have the cables at work with me right now, and plan on soldering all the connections tonight. Triode Users 3 plug adapters got me thinking that I have to do something with pin 3, other than just making sure no other wires touch it. Also back a few pages, I think I read that someone wired theirs up wrong, and fried something. I have an old pair of energy speakers that I always connect up first, whenever I make changes to my setup, or cables...just to be safe.
I used to get quite cross when some posters would say there was no need to use an external headphone amp with the TT and that the resulting sound must be worse when my ears told me a different story.
I have long been touting the technical benefit of not adding an amp, better distortion and truer to the source, but personal benefit/preference should always win. Always listen for what you enjoy. Always. If I personally contributed to making you cross then I apologize.
Since it’s impossible to differentiate the sound of a Chord DAC from its analogue output (which is never ever bypassed in Chord DACs - even in DAC mode) this comment always perplexes me. It’s not like other conventional setups with an amp just tacked on after the DAC. The TT2’s output is based on the Power Pulse Array which allows for huge Current and seems to get universally good feedback. I can’t wait until Rob gets a stand alone Power Pulse Array amp product out.
Before purchasing my TT2 my setup was TT (used as DAC) into Violectric V281 headphone amp using MrSpeakers Ether Flow 1.1headphones in balanced mode. The TT was connected to the V281 with Snake River Audio Mamushi Signature inteconnects and the V281 had a Russ Andrews SuperKord - 100 mains lead attached. The results with this setup were excellent, by the way.
Having heard the TT2 at London CanJam and being very impressed by the SQ I decided to purchase it p/exing my TT to help fund the purchase.
The reason I was using the V281 as headphone amp in preference to the TT's headphone amp is simply because it sounded better. I used to get quite cross when some posters would say there was no need to use an external headphone amp with the TT and that the resulting sound must be worse when my ears told me a different story. I also preferred to use Hugo 1( my first Chord product) as a DAC into an external headphone amp in preference to the onboard headphone amp. Basically I liked the Chord on board headphone amps but thought they could be improved on.
When I listened to the TT2 at London CanJam I was impressed by the extra drive the headphone amp had even though it was single ended rather than balanced which I had previously regarded as being superior. When I got my new TT2 I initially used it in DAC mode into the V281 and was very impressed by the results. I next decided to A/B the headphone amps. After much toing and froing (which indicates how good the V281 is) I came to the conclusion that I preferred the TT2 as a single package. (The cost to buy a new V281 and the cables I used new would be more than the cost of a new TT2, making the TT2 a relative high end 'bargain'.) With the TT2 I feel the headphone amp section of Chord's products is now on a par with their world class DAC's.
No doubt there are headphone amps out there - the new Niimbus's for example or various valve based designs, which I haven't heard, and which may offer superior sound quality; but for the moment I'm more than happy with the TT2 headphone amp. Just need the money for the M Scaler now!
I feel the same with Hugo 2 with HD800S that i prefer hugo 2 as dac connected to external amp (Lake People RS 02). Maybe a really light driven HP could pair better with hugo 2 internal amp.
I do like having different sound signature options though. With just listening straight from hugo 2 sometimes and sometime with external amp.
Great to hear the amp section has been cranked up powerwise in TT2. You convinced me that its very good package.
I feel the same with Hugo 2 with HD800S that i prefer hugo 2 as dac connected to external amp (Lake People RS 02). Maybe a really light driven HP could pair better with hugo 2 internal amp.
Great to hear the amp section has been fixed in TT2. You convinced me that its very good package.
Relic just said above, there is no difference between the amp section and the DAC section of a Chord DAC. The output is the same, and DAC mode or line level mode is only headphone or RCA, at a predetermined voltage. (Like 2.5V with TT2.)
On Hugo 2 it's about 3V, but the RCA and the headphone sockets are connected identically. There is no extra components in the headphone ports, compared with the RCA ports. The RCA and headphone ports come straight off the conversion. (Although there may be an op-amp for output impedance.) Am over my head on the specific components and what's there. However I am sure this is what we are told.
Saying you like the TT2 headphone outputs, over previous and other headphone outputs, means only one thing. You prefer the TT2. Or you prefer the TT2 with your current headphones. E.g. you think the TT2 is beefy enough. I mean, that's why people think they need an amp on Chord; more beef - less detail - amp colouration.
If hd600s at 300ohm requires an amp with Hugo 2 then going by that logic a 4 ohm speaker should be preferable than 8ohm as far as drivability is concerned. I don't know from where it came that Hugo 2 or mojo's headphone amp section can't drive high impedance phones like hd800s. In fact chord dacs don't have any headphones amp section at all. It is direct output from dac .
I think the reviewer have been using the V 281 as a reference until recently though. But you cant know for sure untill you heard them bort yourself i guess. But V281 seems to get more praise and status and seem more legandary around here.
If hd600s at 300ohm requires an amp with Hugo 2 then going by that logic a 4 ohm speaker should be preferable than 8ohm as far as drivability is concerned. I don't know from where it came that Hugo 2 or mojo's headphone amp section can't drive high impedance phones like hd800s. In fact chord dacs don't have any headphones amp section at all. It is direct output from dac .
drivability and preference are two seperate issues. I have been saying that if mojo is good with more number of low to mid impedance headphones then drivability should not be an issue of higher impedance headphones like hd800s etc. It's must be only preference because higher the impedance easier it is to drive. Ps- i know a number of people enjoying the synergy of mojo with hd800s. There may be many in headfi community also. Don't dismiss mojo just because it is much cheaper than hd800s.
There have been extensive discussions on the TT2 ability to drive speakers but I'm still a bit confused on how well it can do that. Beside transparency and tone, a good amplifier will show " great control" of speakers, and this mostly applies to bass. That's the main difference between a TOTL amp vs a basic one. Both can lead to high volume, but with very different quality.
Is the TT2 as good as, let's say a Pass Lab XA25, or is more like a sony amp... or anything in between? I have hard time believing it could be as good as a $5k amp but why not
drivability and preference are two seperate issues. I have been saying that if mojo is good with more number of low to mid impedance headphones then drivability should not be an issue of higher impedance headphones like hd800s etc. It's must be only preference because higher the impedance easier it is to drive. Ps- i know a number of people enjoying the synergy of mojo with hd800s. There may be many in headfi community also. Don't dismiss mojo just because it is much cheaper than hd800s.
The HD800 is 300 Ohms, never tried it on the Mojo, so don't know how it sounds...but...
Its a problem at both ends, low impedance you get current limiting and high impedance you get voltage limiting.
Ever noticed how almost all portable headphones have low impedances, it's so they will work better with battery powered devices.
Batteries can provide lots of current when needed, try short circuiting one (actually don't) but they have a fixed voltage, eg. 5V max for a 5V battery.
Why the Mojo output power is way down at 600 Ohms below.
Mojo Technical Specs from Chord website:
Output Power @ 1kHz – 600Ω 35mW
Output Power @ 1kHz – 8Ω 720mW
If you had two headphones that had the same sensitivity, say 95dB SPL/mW, but one was 8 Ohms and the other was 600 Ohms.
Both would need about the same amount of power, say 100mW for 115dB SPL max (as this is based on the sensitivity).
How would the 600 Ohms headphone go with the Mojo?
The HD800 is 300 Ohms, never tried it on the Mojo, so don't know how it sounds...but...
Its a problem at both ends, low impedance you get current limiting and high impedance you get voltage limiting.
Ever noticed how almost all portable headphones have low impedances, it's so they will work better with battery powered devices.
Batteries can provide lots of current when needed, try short circuiting one (actually don't) but they have a fixed voltage, eg. 5V max for a 5V battery.
Why the Mojo output power is way down at 600 Ohms below.
Mojo Technical Specs from Chord website:
Output Power @ 1kHz – 600Ω 35mW
Output Power @ 1kHz – 8Ω 720mW
If you had two headphones that had the same sensitivity, say 95dB SPL/mW, but one was 8 Ohms and the other was 600 Ohms.
Both would need about the same amount of power, say 100mW for 115dB SPL max (as this is based on the sensitivity).
How would the 600 Ohms headphone go with the Mojo?
Any electronics/electrical engineer would agree with that but again if someone is getting enough volume and stiil volume margin left at higher impedance, that situation is better than when you still have plenty of volume margin left but not enough current for low impedance loads. That's what is drivability all about. Voltage is never a problem for mojo as it goes upto 4.8v without clipping. Even current is not a problem for mojo as i drive 8ohm bookshelf speakers directly out of mojo with sufficient room filling volume. I use beyerdynamic dt880 600 ohm with mojo and rarely needed to go beyond light blue which is arround 1 to 1.5v. ( for other people there is still more than 10db margin left upto 4.8v) so as i am repeatedly posting in this forum that driving of hd800s or any 600ohm is not a problem from drivability point of view as long as you never reach clipping point 'because drivability or difficult to drive is all about low impedance less sensitive loads not high impedance loads' .
There have been extensive discussions on the TT2 ability to drive speakers but I'm still a bit confused on how well it can do that. Beside transparency and tone, a good amplifier will show " great control" of speakers, and this mostly applies to bass. That's the main difference between a TOTL amp vs a basic one. Both can lead to high volume, but with very different quality.
Is the TT2 as good as, let's say a Pass Lab XA25, or is more like a sony amp... or anything in between? I have hard time believing it could be as good as a $5k amp but why not
I think it all depends on a variety of factors such as what speakers you are using, the size of the room, what music and how loud you like to play it. I like to play music at a 'realistic' volume (take that as quite loud) in a largish room and for me with my speakers I much preferred the Pass Labs XA30.8 that I had at the time compared to TT2 direct to the speakers. Others, including Rob Watts say they get on just fine with TT2 direct to speakers such as his B&W 803 D3 which are within 1dB the same sensitivity (90dB) as my Spendor SP200 speakers (89dB).
My only suggestion is not to take what anyone else says because there are too many variables at play and to try it yourself in your system.
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