[musickid]

With the TT2 the HPA4 becomes redundant for headphones.

 

[Roasty]

With the TT2 the HPA4 becomes redundant for headphones.

Sure. That may be the case indeed.
I do like the hpa4 tho. It has good specs and line out amplifier.

Just wondering if anyone runs that setup I mentioned, or not.

 

[musickid]

That set up would be pointless surely? If you're determined a much cheaper hugo 2 or mojo maybe which could take over dac duties into the HPA4. Still a bit strange though.

 

[Roasty]

That set up would be pointless surely?

Lol in this hobby.. There is a lot of pointless stuff going about.. No?

It's a matter of perception isn't it? If i spent for tt2 and mscaler, I would likely love it, but other people might find it pointless.

There is a whole group of people on ASR forum who think the folks in this thread are crazy.

 

[musickid]

I would go hugo 2 into hpa4. price and performance and size factor. fit nicely on top of hpa4. what's ASR? pointless stuff for sure lol.

 

[Roasty]

I would go hugo 2 into hpa4. price and performance and size factor. fit nicely on top of hpa4. what's ASR? pointless stuff for sure lol.

Audio science review forum.
I like to read stuff there too as it provides alternative (and occasionally, supporting) views on some topics and products.

I've tried the mscaler tt2 combo and was very impressed. I echo your impressions.

 

[x RELIC x]

Looks like an all nighter through the early hours. Just started playing Dark Side of the Moon. The TT2/HMS with the silver dream cable for my PM1 is making the headphone do "new" things. I knew the PM1 could accept in excess of 1W through single ended with the TT2 as Oppo design a balanced cable for it to use with their HA1 amp which can do up to 3W into the PM1. Hence my obsession with this point last night. I've been checking old posts on the PM1 thread which are saying the PM1 is champion with real power. It's not about loudness but a more holistic understanding of what's going on with the headphone. I just heard my headphone do "things" i have never heard with TT2 volume on minus 6/7.

This was listening to the VCS 3 synthesizer on the intro to track number one of Dark Side of the Moon "Speak to Me". My instinct was right i knew it.... the PM1 is responding well to the TT2 just as i hoped. When i say "new things" i'm hearing the special effects like never before. I feel the headphone reacting to the synth like never before. Minus 6/7 looks like the maximum volume the PM1 can comfortably take. Depending on recording maybe give or take a little. And that's for listening loud on high gain. On Rob's advice i would never try balanced for headphones. It's good to understand what's going on though as i'm on a steep learning curve still to this day.

At a guess that's about 1.2W into my PM1 with the TT2 SE and that's about double what the hugo 2 was providing which was about 740mW. These figures are very rough estimates and are maximum output figures in the real world. And here is that vintage synth.

No, the PM-1 is not using around 1.2W... if it was you’d be deaf dude. The PM-1 will only use around 63mW to produce 120dB SPL. If you listen at these levels for long you will cause damage to your hearing. Oppo recommends a long term max power input of 500mW for the drivers. That’s max continuous before the drivers fail. Oppo recommends a max pulse rate of 2W. That’s a PULSE, as in nothing more than a blip before the headphone may fail. Read the power input spec at the bottom of the linked page.

https://www.oppodigital.com/headphones-pm-1/

The TT2 is a better device than the Hugo2, the price and product tier clearly indicate it’s meant to be better. That doesn’t mean the PM-1 is suddenly using the available potential power when you are listening at sane levels. Just keeping it real instead of these ‘it feels like this much power’ comments.

By the way, a balanced topology isn’t just about power. It’s a different design topology that can take advantage of common mode noise reduction and balanced can solve certain issues from the DAC. SE can sound as good or better than balanced depending on the design. Rob’s designs are among those that perform measurably better in SE than balanced, with other gear it could be the opposite.

 

[musickid]

My understanding is that the extra power doesn't necessarily equate to just loudness with the PM1. The extra power output of the TT2 increases the quality of the control and dynamics of the driver for example resulting in a better sound. So not loudness but the quality of the amp and its ability to control the headphone and drive it correctly. Still learning. The mdr z1r doesn't need much power to play loud or the empyrean but the quality of the amp is paramount. Maybe with the Oppo HA1 amp a balanced set up results in more power which isn't used but the amp still drives the PM1 to its very best in this configuration.

 

[x RELIC x]

My understanding is that the extra power doesn't necessarily equate to just loudness with the PM1. The extra power output of the TT2 increases the quality of the control and dynamics of the driver for example resulting in a better sound. So not loudness but the quality of the amp and its ability to control the headphone and drive it correctly. Still learning. The mdr z1r doesn't need much power to play loud or the empyrean but the quality of the amp is paramount. Maybe with the Oppo HA1 amp a balanced set up results in more power which isn't used but the amp still drives the PM1 to its very best.

You can’t add power without increasing volume. Slew rate, impedance, damping factor control the driver.

 

[musickid]

Therefore when MDR Z1R owners or Empyrean owners use the TT2 it is all about the quality of the amp and its ability to drive the headphones correctly and optimally irrespective of power output or power needed. The TT2 is warmer and more transparent than hugo 2 regardless of the power used by any headphone. In this case a high sensitivity headphone still benefits from the warmer more transparent delivery of TT2. This is a science.....

 

[x RELIC x]

Therefore when MDR Z1R owners or Empyrean owners use the TT2 it is all about the quality of the amp and its ability to drive the headphones correctly and optimally irrespective of power output or power needed.

Yes. There’s just a few headphones that truly require gobs of power.

Mostly it’s all about if there is enough with headroom for dynamic peaks. Think about a pool you dive in to... is the water deep enough to dive safely without hitting your head on the bottom? If so then using a lake or an ocean won’t make a difference as you’ll only dive so deep from a certain height. I know, a weird analogy, but the point is that once there is enough then there is enough. Over kill is just that, overkill. Of course a weak source will always be insufficient, but the idea that Watts are needed for the majority of headphones is becoming way out of hand.

 

[musickid]

Thanks Relic.

 

[GreenBow]

I guess I should of said the TT2/excite combo is ideal for late night listening, but not limited to. I just find that the sound is very full sounding, even at very low volume. But, I also play it loud during the day, without feeling like I am missing something. I suggest you strip a couple of wires back, and XLR interconnects, solder them together, and give it a try, it will surprise you how good it sounds.It took me about an hour to make my set.

That sounds encouraging.

The TT2 sounding full at low volumes is how I thought it would be. Straight from the TT2 is must be so refined, detailed, and fast.

Like you, I have speaker cables, and intend to build an adapter. I have some speaker plug females, and some RCA plugs. I'll probably have a go at doing RCA single-ended first. (I need to get some quality cable to make adapters though, but anything will do for volume checking.) If it's not loud enough, then buy some XLR plugs.


I remember a recent post from Rob Watts about using XLR. Someone was asking about how hard they could drive RCA and XLR I think, or about the unit getting hot. … Don't quote me, but I think the reply was something vaguely like this. Single ended fine - no worry. Balanced - I think it was something vaguely like, don't push it like mad at top power. It was quite a recent post, and not worded like that, but that's what I took from it.

 

[x RELIC x]

Thanks Relic.

Hey @musickid I’m very happy for you and your TT2 purchase. I’m not meaning to rain on your parade, just that I know you are inquisitive so thought you’d appreciate the info. By the way, you said that even when you turn the volume down all the qualities you enjoy with the TT2 remain. This is a true sign that it’s the overall design of the gear, not just power, that makes the gear sound good. Remember, humans are wired to prefer louder music, but when it’s just as enjoyable at lower to medium volumes then that’s a sign of great gear. That’s the way I feel about the DAVE.

 

[musickid]

I enjoy the science and theory behind headfi gear very much and always appreciated your feedback. It's nice to turn it down at night with some relaxing jazz for sure ... Great gear does pianissimo well bad gear does not agreed.