Hugo TT 2 by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

[OCC7N]

Well I shouted "Rob Watts".
Hopefully he will set us straight.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""QUOTE: https://headfonics.com/chord-electronics-hugo-tt2-review/
"There is no balanced output for this amp, not something Chord believes in principle with their amp designs. However, 2.7W into 32Ω is enough to drive most modern planar headphones with aplomb."

"Going pre-amp and using the balanced output via the rear XLR, it goes even higher with 6.6Vrms or 1.3W into a 32Ω up to a massive 18.6Vrms or well over 10W into the same load. Bear in mind these are weighted measurements so the parameters for the TT2 amp from being able to cope with demanding HiFi systems are very clearly defined."
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Where is the hokus pocus?
I mean the XLR should be balanced if they say so??... @Rob Watts can you please explain the XLR output. Should I really use RCA instead?... I am getting an headphone amp

...And while I am at it why did chord not make an headphone amp yet?

EDIT: if the signal is unbalanced, it should still be called unbalanced no matter the connection. ATC loudspeaker does this for XLR on there amps. is Chord TT2 unbalanced XLR out?

 

[rocketron]

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""QUOTE: https://headfonics.com/chord-electronics-hugo-tt2-review/
"There is no balanced output for this amp, not something Chord believes in principle with their amp designs. However, 2.7W into 32Ω is enough to drive most modern planar headphones with aplomb."

"Going pre-amp and using the balanced output via the rear XLR, it goes even higher with 6.6Vrms or 1.3W into a 32Ω up to a massive 18.6Vrms or well over 10W into the same load. Bear in mind these are weighted measurements so the parameters for the TT2 amp from being able to cope with demanding HiFi systems are very clearly defined."
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Where is the hokus pocus?
I mean the XLR should be balanced if they say so??... @Rob Watts can you please explain the XLR output. Should I really use RCA instead?... I am getting an headphone amp

...And while I am at it why did chord not make an headphone amp yet?

EDIT: if the signal is unbalanced, it should still be called unbalanced no matter the connection. ATC loudspeaker does this for XLR on there amps. is Chord TT2 unbalanced XLR out?

Chord do make a headphone amp.
It’s called Anni.

 

[OCC7N]

Chord do make a headphone amp.
It’s called Anni.

I did see it....
I should have said a little more power

 

[betula]

Here is a example on how moderators at ASR miss-use their power - I said nothing wrong at all, yet the moderator was acting like a clown towards me, which in-fact was more of a direct attack on myself for simply stating why I liked the design of the TT2, as opposed to agreeing with Amir's opinion.

PS I've seen people write all sorts of swear words and far worse "personal insults" on ASR, no problem there!

I did nothing wrong here.

I have been in this hobby for around 12 years but still get surprised sometimes how toxic the conversations can get. Everyone is convinced and protective to their own truth and heavily lack acceptance towards different opinions. Sometimes I wonder why that is.

 

[Kentajalli]

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""QUOTE: https://headfonics.com/chord-electronics-hugo-tt2-review/
"There is no balanced output for this amp,

He is talking about the headphone amp! TT2 has no headphone balanced out.

not something Chord believes in principle with their amp designs. However, 2.7W into 32Ω is enough to drive most modern planar headphones with aplomb."

"Going pre-amp and using the balanced output via the rear XLR, it goes even higher with 6.6Vrms or 1.3W into a 32Ω up to a massive 18.6Vrms or well over 10W into the same load. Bear in mind these are weighted measurements so the parameters for the TT2 amp from being able to cope with demanding HiFi systems are very clearly defined."
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Where is the hokus pocus?
I mean the XLR should be balanced if they say so??... @Rob Watts can you please explain the XLR output. Should I really use RCA instead?... I am getting an headphone amp

...And while I am at it why did chord not make an headphone amp yet?

EDIT: if the signal is unbalanced, it should still be called unbalanced no matter the connection. ATC loudspeaker does this for XLR on there amps. is Chord TT2 unbalanced XLR out?

For the time being, at least till RW answers:
The output from XLR sockets is balanced, rest assured. But the nature of the DAC design is not.
For the record, one can create a balanced out from a single-ended signal and vice versa.
A simple transformer can generate a balanced signal from single ended - such devices are used for guitars! A guitar pickup produces a small single ended signal.
Use a long cable in a noisy environment to connect it to an amp, and the buzz/hum can be terrible. Use a small such transformer and use balanced cable, no buzz/hum!
That's the magic of balanced cable. it reduces noise.
Similarly, most poweramps, take a single ended signal, and split it to a balanced signal, and then amplify it.

BTW, why on earth are you going to get a headphone amp to connect to your TT2? You think you are gonna get a better sound? more powerful sound?
Haven't you paid enough!

 

[ardbeg1975]

BTW, why on earth are you going to get a headphone amp to connect to your TT2? You think you are gonna get a better sound? more powerful sound?
Haven't you paid enough!

I have my TT2 in DAC only mode as I like the sonic output of tube headphone amps. No shame in that although I agree it really ups the cost of the entire setup. If I ever acquire an HE6 or a Susvara, using the TT2 as a headamp may come up but, so far, my headphones don't need that much power.

 

[LCMusicLover]

... BTW, why on earth are you going to get a headphone amp to connect to your TT2? You think you are gonna get a better sound? ...

Different sound (from my DSHA-3F).

 

[OCC7N]

He is talking about the headphone amp! TT2 has no headphone balanced out.

For the time being, at least till RW answers:
The output from XLR sockets is balanced, rest assured. But the nature of the DAC design is not.
For the record, one can create a balanced out from a single-ended signal and vice versa.
A simple transformer can generate a balanced signal from single ended - such devices are used for guitars! A guitar pickup produces a small single ended signal.
Use a long cable in a noisy environment to connect it to an amp, and the buzz/hum can be terrible. Use a small such transformer and use balanced cable, no buzz/hum!
That's the magic of balanced cable. it reduces noise.
Similarly, most poweramps, take a single ended signal, and split it to a balanced signal, and then amplify it.

BTW, why on earth are you going to get a headphone amp to connect to your TT2? You think you are gonna get a better sound? more powerful sound?
Haven't you paid enough!

ok what do we call this. output stage? Thanks for explaining

Edit: headphone amp= Susvara

(I was not ready for the R2R thing yet I had the RCOKNA WL + amp in mind, bud still wanted the best Delta/Sigma I could get)

 

[Kentajalli]

- ok what do we call this. output stage? Thanks for explaining
- Edit: headphone amp= Susvara
- (I was not ready for the R2R thing yet I had the RCOKNA WL + amp in mind, bud still wanted the best Delta/Sigma I could get)

- No, TT2 has three separate methods of output, 1- RCA output 2- Balanced XLR output 3- headphone output.
- TT2 on paper (since I don't have one) should happily drive any headphone, Susvara included! it has a powerful headphone amp and next to zero output impedance.
Hell my Hugo2 portable managed to drive the Susvara to reasonable levels, perfectly.
- I am not familiar with RCOKNA WL, but TT2 is not what is commonly referred to as delta sigma. Chord DACs use "pulse array technology", which is proprietary to Chord.

 

[OCC7N]

- No, TT2 has three separate methods of output, 1- RCA output 2- Balanced XLR output 3- headphone output.
- TT2 on paper (since I don't have one) should happily drive any headphone, Susvara included! it has a powerful headphone amp and next to zero output impedance.
- I am not familiar with RCOKNA WL, but TT2 is not what is commonly referred to as delta sigma. Chord DACs use "pulse array technology", which is proprietary to Chord.

Thanks for clarifying. I ordered an amp/audio-gd he9 le, and if it really does not bring susvara a little bit to justice, I guess it will stay as wishful thinking...because I am not going to give another amp a try after this. I am not, don´t care about speakeramps...maybe the XLR outs on TT2 as last resort.

If and if and if.......I am goig to say my honest opinion after burnin of the amp

 

[AnalogEuphoria]

I think the reason this hobby can get toxic is that we can sit and listen (our hobby) while reading the forums at the same time. Other hobbies take us away from the forums for a time.

I know if the audio forums went away a lot of people wouldn't listen as much and probably stop buying equipment.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I think it is the human interaction we are after.
Like going down to the pub! it is not the beer we are after . . .

Good point.

 

[Sampajanna]

I think it is the human interaction we are after.
Like going down to the pub! it is not the beer we are after . . .

I read lots of forums across subjects, none come even close to the toxicity of ASR. The apologists come here and are polite, which is funny. Maybe some of them are polite over there as well and just good guys. I’m sure there are many, but the fact is that people here are mostly friendly and even debates rarely require moderation. ASR is full of emotion and vitriol and you are not allowed to contradict H. H. Lord Amir. And I don’t mean contradict measurements, which would indeed be just as one would need one’s own data to back up such, but you cannot contradict opinions, like the above where someone disagreed with an opinion on the aesthetics of Chord dacs, which is completely subjective, and was subsequently ridiculed off the forum…. If forums are pubs, ASR is a rowdy one full of angry drunks who are drinking for the wrong reasons, one where you get mugged and the bartender relishes it…

And even when it comes to measurements, do you not find it curious that the other well-known measurement-taking reviewer Goldensound was banned from ASR for hardly anything at all??? One would think that if open-minded learning, exploration and objective understandings were the goals that they are stated to be at ASR, dialogue would be less emotional and contradictory ideas and theories would be welcome, let alone measurements and analysis of said measurements…. But, alas, there is no conversation with ideologues.

 

[Sampajanna]

Also, Robb Watts has demonstrated a willingness to discuss audio design in great detail on forums. ASR and Amir should take a hard look in the mirror. If they were upright and their work were conducted in the right spirit, RW would be on that forum having a civil conversation, sharing knowledge and interpretation of data back and forth to the benefit of the whole audio world. I cannot speak for RW, of course, but I suspect it is not the presence of data/measurements that keeps him away, but rather the ocean of vitriol surrounding said data….

 

[Currawong]

No, I believe not. There is a belief on ASR, that with DACs and Amplifiers, measurements tell the whole story, so listening test is just for fun, or to confirm something that was discovered during measurements.

What measurements? And how do they relate specifically to what we experience? They can't explain that, but instead, use a small subset of measurements, which are instantaneous snapshots of a system, often without specific details of how they were captured. This is not how scientific experiments are done. A proper experiment would have the full details so that it could be reproduced by multiple people. Then, the goal of the measurements is purely to re-enforce the narrative of the site, that things such as THD and SINAD tell you everything you need to know about the performance of audio electronics. This kind of thing is.. wait for it... pseudoscience!

Pseudoscience consists of statements, beliefs, or practices that claim to be both scientific and factual but are incompatible with the scientific method.[1][Note 1] Pseudoscience is often characterized by contradictory, exaggerated or unfalsifiable claims; reliance on confirmation bias rather than rigorous attempts at refutation; lack of openness to evaluation by other experts; absence of systematic practices when developing hypotheses; and continued adherence long after the pseudoscientific hypotheses have been experimentally discredited.[2]

Note the emphasised parts in red. Relying only on a set number of measurements based upon a falsifiable hypothesis (audio equipment is being measured as a steady-state system, when it is not, so actual behaviour when in use as a dynamic state is not shown); hiding the details of how they were obtained (so that the measurements cannot be reproduced); and confirmation bias readily apparent in the selection of favourable or non-favourable results, which are then interpreted against the narrative-based hypothesis.

It's not to say that systems cannot be measured in a way that relates to their actual performance, but I don't see an attempt to do so. Heck, where are the slew rate measurements on amplifiers even? Hello?

Was it trashed? I did not see that bit. What I saw was flying colours for TT2 on the measurements. The measurements were originally carried out through balanced output. I posted that the "DAC is a single-ended design and that the balanced output is artificial (buffered)" for the lack of a better word, and that RCA outputs are the true outputs.
Amir went back, edited the review and added RCA output results too, also added it to the video review.
The results were curious!
The RCA output showed exactly the same noise and distortion pattern as the balanced output, so:
- it either implies, that the buffering and amplification used to create the balanced output is absolutely transparent to the notion of -150dB (for an analogue amp), which is one hell of an achievement, considering how much power is available in balanced output!
- Or the results of the RCA output is somewhat tainted.
I find it hard to swallow that the balanced output has EXACTLY the same performance as RCA output, unless RW is secretly working with Mr. Spock.
Since noise results on Hugo2 during the original review/measurement were higher than when the very same Hugo2 was used for a cable review (by 6dB), and no real reason was provided, apart from "it was noisy then, but it is not now", it is possible that the RCA output result of TT2 may have happened on a bad day.
Worth stating that "Noise performance" was the one and only performance criteria that ASR stated that was below "state of the art" performance.

@Currawong you have all the gear and friends willing to entertain experiments how about doing the audiophile community a favour and conduct an ABX test? Show Amir his measurements are meaningless and be a Head-Fi hero.

This is obviously trolling, but let me use it as an opportunity instead.

An ABX, or blind test of gear can be set up intentionally to either fail (where it would be meaningless, not a proof of anything) or to succeed. I was just explaining to someone that a combination of music, equipment, and the listening period allowed can easily be tweaked to make a test go either way, depending on what was being tested.

As well, some tests cannot be conducted as a proper DBT, such as comparing two headphone amplifiers with one pair of headphones, at least without the construction of specialised equipment.

Even with all that, you cannot have a test without a hypothesis. Most of the time, the "hypothisis", if we were to grant it that, is simply not more than "All DACs sound the same" or somesuch nonsense, when an actual scientific experiment will test a specific single, or set of circumstances only. Especially, one result will NOT be used as proof of something greater. Most of the arguments around objectivism aren't seeking the same thing as science -- that is, a greater understanding of any aspect of human perception or how electronics work, but simply re-enforcement of one's beliefs.