[AndrewOld]

Out of curiosity, why do you say the connector is 'incorrect'. Is it not suitable for the signal being passed through it? I'm not looking to make any particular point - I'm just interested in whether there is a reason you used that particular word.

If it is the case that the connector on the MScaler is 50 Ohm and the connector in the cable is 75 Ohm as is the cable and input on the DAVE then there is a mismatch I would have thought, so something is incorrect.

 

[griff500]

If it is the case that the connector on the MScaler is 50 Ohm and the connector in the cable is 75 Ohm as is the cable and input on the DAVE then there is a mismatch I would have thought, so something is incorrect.

But why is that an issue? Isn't that just a question of capacity and both have sufficient capacity?

 

[MvRBE10]

I found this on the technical difference, besides the electrical impedance and reflection issues. Can someone confirm this?

 

[GuiltyRocker]

I believe you need to have the same impedance on both ends to avoid reflection and power loss.

Incorrect, the output device needs to at least have a lower impedance than the input device in this case the DAVE, the opposite is what creates an issue, if the M Scaler had a 75ohm impedance and the DAVE had a 50ohm input impedance then there would be power loss and it would be an issue. This whole thing is not an issue at all.

 

[chesebert]

Incorrect, the output device needs to at least have a lower impedance than the input device in this case the DAVE, the opposite is what creates an issue, if the M Scaler had a 75ohm impedance and the DAVE had a 50ohm input impedance then there would be power loss and it would be an issue. This whole thing is not an issue at all.

For your background: https://resources.system-analysis.c...reflection-and-impedance-mismatch-are-related

 

[Rob Watts]

Ok. @Rob Watts - is there anything to this?

All the BNC sockets I have here are 75 ohm. But if the supplier had inadvertently shipped 50 ohm on a production batch it would not be a problem.

This is because the errors from impedance mismatch depends upon how long the mismatch is against the rise time of the signal. So a 50 ohm connector would be a chain of 75 ohm source, then 50 ohm connector, then back to 75 ohms. The 75>50 ohm transition would create a reflection, followed by an inverse (equal and opposite) reflection from the 50>75 ohms, cancelling the first reflection. The separation on these reflections would be about 100pS - but this is tiny compared to the signal rise time of about 2000pS. This would mean that the glitches would be negligible in value and of a small enough time duration that the DAC could not possibly respond to it - too small in voltage and way too fast for the receivers to respond.

So it's a complete non issue. However, the cables should be 75 ohms, as a 1m length has a delay of the order of 5000pS, and this would create voltage errors that the receiver would respond too, as the glitch levels would be higher than the hysteresis thresholds on the receiver and the time period would also be long enough for the receiver to respond. That said, I have built in de-glitch circuitry in the SPDIF receiver to accommodate these kind of errors.

 

[chesebert]

All the BNC sockets I have here are 75 ohm. But if the supplier had inadvertently shipped 50 ohm on a production batch it would not be a problem.

This is because the errors from impedance mismatch depends upon how long the mismatch is against the rise time of the signal. So a 50 ohm connector would be a chain of 75 ohm source, then 50 ohm connector, then back to 75 ohms. The 75>50 ohm transition would create a reflection, followed by an inverse (equal and opposite) reflection from the 50>75 ohms, cancelling the first reflection. The separation on these reflections would be about 100pS - but this is tiny compared to the signal rise time of about 2000pS. This would mean that the glitches would be negligible in value and of a small enough time duration that the DAC could not possibly respond to it - too small in voltage and way too fast for the receivers to respond.

So it's a complete non issue. However, the cables should be 75 ohms, as a 1m length has a delay of the order of 5000pS, and this would create voltage errors that the receiver would respond too, as the glitch levels would be higher than the hysteresis thresholds on the receiver and the time period would also be long enough for the receiver to respond. That said, I have built in de-glitch circuitry in the SPDIF receiver to accommodate these kind of errors.

My point was that a $5500 premium high end digital product should not have mismatched BNC connectors whether or not the effect of which is “negligible”. The fact is that, regardless of the magnitude, such signal degradation could be prevented altogether by using the correct BNC connectors.

Edit: btw, every image of mscaler on the Internet shows the unit using 50ohm connectors so I don’t think there was a supplier issue - the 50ohm connector was on the BOM.

 

[Mediahound]

You paid $5500 for a premium digital product. I think you should have higher standard.

You're missing your own point it seems.

All the BNC sockets I have here are 75 ohm. But if the supplier had inadvertently shipped 50 ohm on a production batch it would not be a problem.


So it's a complete non issue. However, the cables should be 75 ohms, as a 1m length has a delay of the order of 5000pS, and this would create voltage errors that the receiver would respond too, as the glitch levels would be higher than the hysteresis thresholds on the receiver and the time period would also be long enough for the receiver to respond. That said, I have built in de-glitch circuitry in the SPDIF receiver to accommodate these kind of errors.

The premium product is engineered so well that what you're concerned about doesn't even make any performance difference and doesn't matter.

 

[chesebert]

Oh this is interesting - looks like TT2 also uses 50ohm BNC connectors. That does explain why mscaler also uses 50ohm BNC connectors. What this means is that 1. you will need 50ohm bnc cables connecting mscaler to TT2 and 2. Mscaler is not 100% compatible with Dave (or any other dac) due to impedance mismatch.

 

[Mediahound]

Oh this is interesting - looks like TT2 also uses 50ohm BNC connectors. That does explain why mscaler also uses 50ohm BNC connectors. What this means is that 1. you will need 50ohm bnc cables connecting mscaler to TT2 and 2. Mscaler is not 100% compatible with Dave (or any other dac) due to impedance mismatch.

Now it's clear you're just trolling. Did you really not read this?

All the BNC sockets I have here are 75 ohm. But if the supplier had inadvertently shipped 50 ohm on a production batch it would not be a problem.

This is because the errors from impedance mismatch depends upon how long the mismatch is against the rise time of the signal. So a 50 ohm connector would be a chain of 75 ohm source, then 50 ohm connector, then back to 75 ohms. The 75>50 ohm transition would create a reflection, followed by an inverse (equal and opposite) reflection from the 50>75 ohms, cancelling the first reflection. The separation on these reflections would be about 100pS - but this is tiny compared to the signal rise time of about 2000pS. This would mean that the glitches would be negligible in value and of a small enough time duration that the DAC could not possibly respond to it - too small in voltage and way too fast for the receivers to respond.

So it's a complete non issue. However, the cables should be 75 ohms, as a 1m length has a delay of the order of 5000pS, and this would create voltage errors that the receiver would respond too, as the glitch levels would be higher than the hysteresis thresholds on the receiver and the time period would also be long enough for the receiver to respond. That said, I have built in de-glitch circuitry in the SPDIF receiver to accommodate these kind of errors.

Further, you can't go just by online pictures. A lot of times they are digital mock-ups released prior to the actual product release, or are photos of pre-production units.

 

[AndrewOld]

The premium product is engineered so well

.. that, on the recommendation of its designer, people spend a third of its value on cables to connect it to the product it was designed to connect to. Not what I would expect of a well-engineered premium product.

 

[MvRBE10]

.. that, on the recommendation of its designer, people spend a third of its value on cables to connect it to the product it was designed to connect to. Not what I would expect of a well-engineered premium product.

Well in the end its a choice and the designers does admit that a ferrit will decrease the rf noise but it sounds pretty well as is. I can let a ferrari also drive faster on slicks but its not ment to be from gactory or the showroom. So its all free will, you make it mandatory, as in else it is not good. This is never said on this thread or forum?

 

[Mediahound]

.. that, on the recommendation of its designer, people spend a third of its value on cables to connect it to the product it was designed to connect to. Not what I would expect of a well-engineered premium product.

And?

People spend big bucks on high-end speaker cables too but here just like in that scenario, it's not a requirement to do so, some just prefer too.

Would you really say the high-end speakers are not engineered well because a designer of said speakers may use some upgraded speaker cables?

 

[stemiki]

It would be the case to ignore definitively who intervenes in the thread daily and exclusively to denigrate.

Also I am convinced that some of them do not even own an M Scaler or have never listened to it.

A famous proverb says: the game is beautiful when it is short ...

I am suspicious that they create havoc by hoping that then someone weak of character will sell their M Scaler at a low price, so that they can rush into the purchase.

That said, I am very happy with what the M Scaler does in my system and have no intention of selling it!

 

[GuiltyRocker]

It would be the case to ignore definitively who intervenes in the thread daily and exclusively to denigrate.

Also I am convinced that some of them do not even own an M Scaler or have never listened to it.

A famous proverb says: the game is beautiful when it is short ...

I am suspicious that they create havoc by hoping that then someone weak of character will sell their M Scaler at a low price, so that they can rush into the purchase.

That said, I am very happy with what the M Scaler does in my system and have no intention of selling it!

Will not sell mines, I have a friend that keeps sending me the ASR "review" as if to say I got taken advantage of by buying a box that doesn't do anything. I let him keep his opinion while I enjoy my music.