Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

[thePhones]

I could not find anything about this in this thread so I hope that I can inspire some people

Since @Rob Watts has posted about watching movies with the full million taps with Jriver and a negative delay (the audio goes ahead) I was hoping I could find a solution to also watch Netflix with 1 million taps.

And I am so exited to announce I found it!

The newest Nvidia Shield TV Pro not just supports Dolby Vision and HDR10 but every model of the Nvidia Shield TV (also the older ones) does support up to 1 second (incremental in 10ms steps) of negative audio delay.
So far I have testet the app Netflix, Youtube and MKV Movies in "Kodi".
3D MKV should also work, have not tested it yet.
Kodi needs some extra work: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?pid=2698828#pid2698828 (fourth post on the site)
The audio needs to be routed over the TV or other via HDMI in order to get 48 khz, with USB Android TV is limited to 44.1 (Stereo) or 192khz (Stereo HD)
So far everything works smoothly with global (android) negative delay set to -700ms and Kodi set to -900ms. Those number may vary a bit depending on your tv set and preference.

One last tip: To me Netflix audio sounds also less compressed if you have the 4K subscription, so it's worth a try even if you have no 4K TV set.

Ps.:If you find capitals where they do not belong just know they are from Germany with love

edit: after a bit more testing and comparing the audio quality inside Netflix I have noticed that there seems to be some sort of conversion/compression hapening inside the Nvidia Shield.
Kodi uses it's own audio driver so to my ears it sounds exactly like playing with Jriver on the laptop without the inconvenience of having to set the laptop up in front of the tv. So the Nvidia Shield is still worth it to me. All my movies are uncompressed as MKV on the hard drive always ready to play connected to the shield.
I have to do further testing regarding apps that use the android audio driver.

edit 2: I found the solution to the compression problem. It was caused by an additional app I installed called “refresh rate”. It automatically changes the frame rate and resolution to the played contend. This change in resolution probably told the netflix server that my receiver/connection is not capable of high bitrate.

So after all everything works now, I’m very happy and the Nvidia Shield TV Pro (2019) is highly recommended. Sorry for the confusion and I hope you are inspired

 

[ray-dude]

@Rob Watts
I found that with stock PSUs I can`t be completely sure if the playback is active at -15H, and I can clearly hear silent hiss at -10H. With LPSUs (of a very good quality) these numbers are -12H and -6H. At 0H level I clearly hear hiss with both PSUs, but with stock one it is significantly louder. Sure, my ears are not calibrated for measurements, but it is obvious that in my system there is a difference. And I repeated this test for many times. Also, results were similar with optical and USB input of an M Scaler.

As you may know, when you unplug the power from TT2, it is able to keep playing music for a short while (seconds). Could I impose on you to repeat your experiment, but pull the plug from the back of the TT2 and see what happens to the background noise you're hearing? That should be fairly definitive about what contributions the power supplies are making to what you hear (stock vs LPS vs nothing but fully charged super caps).

 

[Ragnar-BY]

As you may know, when you unplug the power from TT2, it is able to keep playing music for a short while (seconds). Could I impose on you to repeat your experiment, but pull the plug from the back of the TT2 and see what happens to the background noise you're hearing? That should be fairly definitive about what contributions the power supplies are making to what you hear (stock vs LPS vs nothing but fully charged super caps).

Well, I would not do this with LPS (especially Farad), because of PSU's capacitors. But I think it might be interesting to check this with stock PSU.

 

[Progisus]

I use an Hugo2 with the mscaler. If I disconnect the power supply and use the internal batteries am I breaking the ground loop?

 

[nomad777]

I use an Hugo2 with the mscaler. If I disconnect the power supply and use the internal batteries am I breaking the ground loop?

?? BP on the HMS

 

[Progisus]

?? BP on the HMS

Batteries in H2.

 

[Chester Rockwell]

I use an Hugo2 with the mscaler. If I disconnect the power supply and use the internal batteries am I breaking the ground loop?

Yes you are, if you are using headphones. If your Hugo 2 is connected to an amp then no, there is still a loop via the amp power lead.

 

[Rob Watts]

Thanks for the response Rob, very interesting to get this in depth information "straight from the horse's mouth" on these hotly debated subjects.

But if I understand you correctly, YOU like me and obviously others here, DO "go to the silly length" of using solid core ferrited BNC cables at home?
Correct me if I am wrong...
But when travelling you get basically the same results as solid core BNC cabling by using the stock BNC cables and a battery pack?

You recently suggested an alternative battery pack to the PP2 here.
Have you tried it and can you confirm that it will work as well as the PP2 with an HMS or does your suggestion come only from comparing specs?

While on the subject of battery power I have recently become too lazy to keep charging and changing between battery power and the supplied SMPS on my Qutest.
The difference is not always worth the hazzle of having to change unexpectedly in the middle of a piece of music I am enjoying when it happens, so I mostly stay plugged in.
But as with solid core BNCs over stock BNCs which to me at least, made a VERY notable even,WOW what a difference how is this possible? reaction, in my systems both via headphones and speakers, the battery solution still sounds slightly warmer and fuller than plugged in with the most demanding and really well recorded of my music.
But with most other recordings the difference is minute enough to be blissfully ignored.
But I can still hear it via the humble Qutest /HMS combo I am still using with great listening pleasure every day.

Finalmente, una pregunta mas,
When can we look forward to a TT2 power digital headphone amp that will work DIRECTLY with the HMS?
Such a toy would come in very handy for me on my travels and hopefully many others as well.
If you could hold such in your hands at Canjam Singapore next spring I may even forsake a live concert just to hear it in action.
Cheers CC

Yes I do indeed use solid core ferrites cables at home. But when travelling using a Hugo 2 and batteries it's unnecessary; and when I use TT2 or Dave in my hotel room I don't bother taking the cables too as the SQ benefits are not worth the hassle (extra weight and size).

I like how Rob provides a detailed explanation but leaves the tiniest window of doubt. His talent is not only the best dac designer in the world but perhaps speech writing as well!

Thank-you for your kind words, but for sure at least one of those assertions is false! But I try to be very precise and accurate in my posts - and both writing and designer skills I am constantly striving to improve, and I hope I have some more years left when I do indeed improve my knowledge and skills. As to doubt - this is the most important driver of improvements; without questioning and re-appraisal no progress is ever made.

Alas, when there are no absolutes, there is always a window. Reminds me of the old question of how long is the California coastline? Very different answer if you measure from space vs measuring around each grain of sand on the beach. Depending on how you measure and what scale you measure at, radically different answers to a very simple question. There is still so much to learn about how we perceive sound and the reality around us, so we don't always know what we should be measuring or what scale we need to be measuring against.

With mScaler, we're all hearing things in recorded music that no one was able to hear before (including Rob). We're going to be hearing (and learning) may new things on the way. For me, aside from the astonishing experience of the music, there is joy and excitement in that process of discovery and the fuzzy truth that is slowly revealing itself. The rewards of tweaking up the icing (and the shine on the icing) far out weigh the hassles (for me). We're all obsessive enough that I appreciate that it may also contribute to FOMO.

That being said, out of the box, mScaled anything is a world class listening experience that is WAY WAY beyond anything any one would have thought was even possible 10 years ago. For me, a transformational and affirming part of my life that I am immensely thankful for, icing or no.

Agreed - indeed I spend a lot of time polishing that top surface of cake - but this is in my quest to discover new things, which may result in not simply improving the finish of the icing but giving one a lot more cakes! It's the small things that count; but only in the sense that lots of very small things accumulate to something radically more important. And I agree - ten years ago I wouldn't have dreamt it was possible the musical performance I get now. We are so very fortunate.

Oops. I forgot to mention that I would want my new toy to be built max half the size and weight of the HMS.
Not bigger, please!
I trust, if anyone, you can do it Rob!
But it should also be capable of driving any high quality headphone of my choice except maybe electrostatic cans and the RAAL?
Those are tough.
And both supercapped and capable of running on a re-chargeable and by me the user/ consumer easily exchangeable battery pack as well.
Ideally built the way my digital cameras already are.
When one battery runs out of juice after say 400 exposures, I just stick a fresh one in and keep working.
I keep three fully charged batteries ready at any time.
Cheers again CC

Yes you have just squared your (currently) impossible demands! But I too very much share your desire for such a device.

I use an Hugo2 with the mscaler. If I disconnect the power supply and use the internal batteries am I breaking the ground loop?

Yes see the post below:

Yes you are, if you are using headphones. If your Hugo 2 is connected to an amp then no, there is still a loop via the amp power lead.

True but you could use an isolated battery source, battery Hugo 2, and then no loops, even if Hugo 2 is connected to an amp.

 

[nomad777]

So Rob.. I saw in interview where you said you were thinking about going beyond a million taps. Don't think that's an early time horizon as the HMS isn't that old yet, but ... anything you can share?

 

[zenlisten]

#BreakTheLoop

 

[ZappaMan]

#icethecake

 

[Christer]

Yes I do indeed use solid core ferrites cables at home. But when travelling using a Hugo 2 and batteries it's unnecessary; and when I use TT2 or Dave in my hotel room I don't bother taking the cables too as the SQ benefits are not worth the hassle (extra weight and size).



Thank-you for your kind words, but for sure at least one of those assertions is false! But I try to be very precise and accurate in my posts - and both writing and designer skills I am constantly striving to improve, and I hope I have some more years left when I do indeed improve my knowledge and skills. As to doubt - this is the most important driver of improvements; without questioning and re-appraisal no progress is ever made.



Agreed - indeed I spend a lot of time polishing that top surface of cake - but this is in my quest to discover new things, which may result in not simply improving the finish of the icing but giving one a lot more cakes! It's the small things that count; but only in the sense that lots of very small things accumulate to something radically more important. And I agree - ten years ago I wouldn't have dreamt it was possible the musical performance I get now. We are so very fortunate.



Yes you have just squared your (currently) impossible demands! But I too very much share your desire for such a device.



Yes see the post below:



True but you could use an isolated battery source, battery Hugo 2, and then no loops, even if Hugo 2 is connected to an amp.

Thanks again Rob ,nice to know that you are working on my currently impossible dream toy.
And the "Storm" BNCs which I mainly use do calm things down.
A misnomer I guess.
If I had made them myself I would have called them "Calm Sea and Prosperous Voyage".

Any news to share regarding DAVINA?
Cheers and thanks for enabling me to enjoy digitally recorded music more than ever before.
CC

 

[nomad777]

Well I bought the Abyss TC's today and am listening to them now. Of course I'll continue to listen to them relentlessly for hours now to see if these initial impressions change... but to those that are saying they are vastly superior to the Focal Utopia's No Way. Being a perfectionist I will change the stock cable to a 7N silver cable. I'm listening on the WA33 elite which has enough power to turn your brain to mush so that's not an issue. I think the sound signature is ok.

I still think the HE1000's sounds better for now so I'll continue to listen away with songs I know very well and see if this changes. It is a powerful headphone and you could seriously hurt your ear drums if your not careful. I'd say the Utopias have more detail and are definitely easier to run.

Yes they are nice so I'm not hating on them but I'm not seeing what the rave is all about. Maybe I'll change my mind as I listen more and upgrade the stock cable that came with it. Laterzzz..

 

[Drewligarchy]

Well I bought the Abyss TC's today and am listening to them now. Of course I'll continue to listen to them relentlessly for hours now to see if these initial impressions change... but to those that are saying they are vastly superior to the Focal Utopia's No Way. Being a perfectionist I will change the stock cable to a 7N silver cable. I'm listening on the WA33 elite which has enough power to turn your brain to mush so that's not an issue. I think the sound signature is ok.

I still think the HE1000's sounds better for now so I'll continue to listen away with songs I know very well and see if this changes. It is a powerful headphone and you could seriously hurt your ear drums if your not careful. I'd say the Utopias have more detail and are definitely easier to run.

Yes they are nice so I'm not hating on them but I'm not seeing what the rave is all about. Maybe I'll change my mind as I listen more and upgrade the stock cable that came with it. Laterzzz..

Give them time. I definitely recall some break in with the drivers - but even if they are not new the fit takes getting used to (as well as tuned to your preference). It's the closest headphone to actually tuning speakers in a room.

I'd recommend Elysium by Al Di Meola and Beck Mutations for well recorded albums that displays depth well. I also am partial to Donald Fagen Morph the Cat - not necessarily for depth specifically, but because all Steely Dan is really well recorded and some of the bass lines on that one really shine on the abyss.

Also listening right now to Agaetis Byrjun (Sigur Ros) and The Evening of My Best Day (Rickie Lee Jones). Both are fantastic on the Abyss IMO (and great albums in general).

 

[nomad777]

Give them time. I definitely recall some break in with the drivers - but even if they are not new the fit takes getting used to (as well as tuned to your preference). It's the closest headphone to actually tuning speakers in a room.

I'd recommend Elysium by Al Di Meola and Beck Mutations for well recorded albums that displays depth well. I also am partial to Donald Fagen Morph the Cat - not necessarily for depth specifically, but because all Steely Dan is really well recorded and some of the bass lines on that one really shine on the abyss.

Also listening right now to Agaetis Byrjun (Sigur Ros) and The Evening of My Best Day (Rickie Lee Jones). Both are fantastic on the Abyss IMO (and great albums in general).

I will... thx for the info. they are new ... dealer said the same thing for break in. Starting to see a difference in the mids... it is a heavy bass headphone....