[Siz.]

Finally.
Got to hear what M Scaler would do for my Hugo 2 listening experience. My short, very unscientific verdict is maybe 20% improvement? Caveats: 1- I'm a senior with senior hearing. Not hearing aid hearing, but not hearing acuity of young (under mid-life age) person. 2- I did not hook things up. That was done for me. 3- Listened through Aeon Closed headphones with white one notch filter. Listen to music with JRiver and Macbook Pro on batteries. Hugo 2 was on battery.
I know someone will think/say: 1- Aeon Closed not best choice for critical listening, 2- we don't know how your Hugo 2 and M scaler were connected, with what cables, etc.
I did bring Jazz and Classical music I'm quite familiar with. I used stock Aeon Closed headphone cable. There was no added power supply, power regenerator or surge protector involved.
Am relieved to know do not need to chase M Scaler to be content with Hugo 2 alone
Can say in my opinion, change from Mojo to Hugo 2 was just about as good for me as adding M Scaler to Hugo 2.
Others with more acute hearing, better headphones, as well those who obsess about their power/cables/connections, etc., may find me deaf perhaps
Maybe seasonal allergies are involved? Nah!

Interesting (as someone else with a Hugo 2 and seniorish hearing who is considering the M Scaler). Can I ask: was your auditioning done at your home or elsewhere, and how long did you audition it for?

 

[SilverEars]

I'm all for people going against the herd if that's what they genuinely feel - I've done it myself a few times, not always to a friendly reception.
But I'm qute puzzled in this case because there's an unmistakeable increase in soundstage with the higher HMS sample rates, particularly with an increase in height across the full width of the soundstage - it's very obvious and no other component change can quite pull off a trick to this level (I only listen to headphones BTW).

OTOH, I could barely detect any differences when under noisy meet conditions. So...

1. Did you do the comparison on your own system at home?
2. Did you compensate for the 2.75db volume reduction? (I find that I can listen at lower volumes with HMS in place, so a 2 db compensation would be enough).

If the answer to both those questions was NO, then it's just another example of people coming to the wrong conclusions when comparing things in non-ideal circumstances.

I auditioned at home on DAVE from the M scalar. I've compared it with max upsampling 705 or 768khz to the bypass mode. Are we saying if we put it on bypass mode there is 2.75 dB reduction? You can switch through the upsampling levels on the M scalar from bypass to all the way up to 705 or 768khz. So, you can quickly switch the output.

And no, I didn't hear any sound stage increase. I somewhat get a feeling people think they hear increase on sound stage if there is a specific type of decay sound in the mix, like a hollowness, perhaps creating a perception of space?

 

[Windseeker]

I'd like to throw in my two cents. My system is HMS + DAVE (used to be Qutest, which also paired very well).

Concerning M Scaler's impact, the difference is subtle, for sure. However, to my ears, the difference in musicality -- improved naturalness, believability, intimacy -- is clear and non-trivial. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to a world without it.

To me, the difference is easiest to notice in bass and sub-bass, as long as there is proper "timbre" in the original recording. Just last night, I was floored by HMS+DAVE's presentation of John Paul Jones' baseline in Led Zeppelin's "Heartbreaker". Admittedly, the difference -- in timbre and transients, for example -- is perhaps more evident in classical and jazz recordings with unamplified instruments (and not overly compressed during the mixing process).

I found that the difference is also very noticable when the music has genuine depth (such as a recording in chapel / cathedral), as it opens up immensely in a highly natural manner. In fact, I am fortunate to have some recordings where I have intimate knowledge of the recording environment (for example, by actually attending a concert by same musicians playing the same Bach cantata in the same chapel where the recording eventually took place). There, the difference HMS brings in terms of reality (or believablity) to the depth / soundstage feels unmistakable, at least for me.
Of course, depending on ones's ear, choice of music, and audio system set up, his/her MMV ... and that's completely OK.

 

[TheAttorney]

I auditioned at home on DAVE from the M scalar. I've compared it with max upsampling 705 or 768khz to the bypass mode. Are we saying if we put it on bypass mode there is 2.75 dB reduction? You can switch through the upsampling levels on the M scalar from bypass to all the way up to 705 or 768khz. So, you can quickly switch the output.

And no, I didn't hear any sound stage increase. I somewhat get a feeling people think they hear increase on sound stage if there is a specific type of decay sound in the mix, like a hollowness, perhaps creating a perception of space?

Looks like you did your comparison in a perfectly valid way. So I have no explanation for why you were unimpressed with the HMS.
But no worries, sometime things don't work out as expected and there's no point in wasting money on things that don't give an improvement to you - irrespective of what others may say.
I similarly walked away from a Blu2 a couple of years ago after being underwhelmed by a weekend's home trial.

Better BNC cables would probably help show up the differences. A while back, I raved over how the Blaxius^2D cables transformed my HMS - if you heard it you would not question whether this was a false perception, because it's a blindly obvious real improvement, but I can quite understand if you don't want to go to that trouble at this stage.

 

[rkt31]

Never tried Hugo 2 with hd650 earlier but yesterday had a chance. There was extreme clarity to the notes with huge soundstage width. I would say if you are not habitual of extreme clarity through this combo, you may feel the music has lost it bite and you tend to compensate by increasing volume. Many so called chord haters confusingly describe the sound artificially smooth or having artificial treble or artificially warm and also many a times bright too. All due to not being habitual of extremely clean presentation. Imho a speaker set promptly portrays the difference as compared to headphones. Headphones due to peculiar positioning of drivers can't portray accurate imaging. Other day HMS with foobar and Hugo 2 in speaker set up was so clean that it was difficult to believe the incredibly focused vocals dead at centre while everything was sooooo 'widely' distributed in the soundstage. This trait imho is one of the most difficult to achieve by other DACs, HMS is such a revolutionary product.

 

[rkt31]

Once you listen HMS Hugo 2 combo , every other system sounds grainy.

 

[GreenBow]

Just vaguely thinking about the M-Scaler. (Other things to sort first anyway.) I figured out that delay caused by M-Scaler and DAC when viewing video, could be negated by passing through M-Scaler. I think there was a fix for delay, when using DAC and M-Scaler.

However when using pass through, is there any delay at all. I find when using Mojo, Hugo 2, or TT2, there is no delay with video. Is it the same when passing through M-Scaler. Or does the routing cause a fraction of delay. I am thinking not, but asking anyway please?

 

[Satir]

was your auditioning done at your home or elsewhere
Elsewhere. In a private home.
how long did you audition it for?
an hour, so not long.

Don't let my comments dampen your enthusiasm for M Scaler.
Audition for yourself in environment you're satisfied with, and bring recordings you've listen to many times.
Bought and sold on audiogon (old and new) for many years and had some pretty nice systems.
My last system was Devialet based with some nice KEF speakers. My favorite system consisted of Harbeth Compact 7 powered with LFD NCSE. Had Esoteric disc player and later moved a Melco source into the mix. All long sold due to age/loss of spouse. Downsizing can be cathartic.
Mostly happy with Hugo 2. Thought about selling Hugo 2 (as never use it as a portable device) and getting Qutest and small desktop amp, but some on head-fi brought me to my senses

What surprised me was how Vlad at The Verge disliked what Hugo 2 did to music presentation, but loved Aeon Closed.

 

[jlbrach]

differences in audio products at the level of the dave or even hugo 2 are nuanced....it isnt as if you are going from a transistor radio to a dave etc..ii also find the differences present themselves to me over time depending on the music i listen to...for instance if i listen to a compressed oasis recording it is going to be much more difficult to hear nuanced differences than an acoustic jazz recording or well recorded frank sinatra recording etc....also a 20% improvement is quite substantial, people seem to think that if you spend twice as much money you will see twice the performance it doesnt work that way...if you can afford it a 20% increase in performance is well worth it if you cannot then it is not worth it....also i find there are times when i can hear nuance more than others...at night, when i am relaxed etc....this whole hobby is subjective and nuanced

 

[musickid]

The natural voice reproduction in liquid spirit by Gregory Porter with HMS and the relaxed feeling of the music and complete loss of tension is easily identifiable with HMS right across the board with all genres. I thought the tempo had slowed down but as i became more used to HMS i realised music in general wasn't slowing down but was finally playing at exactly the right speed and pace. Relax into it holistically. No artificial colours, preservatives or flavours added.

 

[CClose]

I'd like to throw in my two cents. My system is HMS + DAVE (used to be Qutest, which also paired very well).

Concerning M Scaler's impact, the difference is subtle, for sure. However, to my ears, the difference in musicality -- improved naturalness, believability, intimacy -- is clear and non-trivial. I certainly wouldn't want to go back to a world without it.

To me, the difference is easiest to notice in bass and sub-bass, as long as there is proper "timbre" in the original recording. Just last night, I was floored by HMS+DAVE's presentation of John Paul Jones' baseline in Led Zeppelin's "Heartbreaker". Admittedly, the difference -- in timbre and transients, for example -- is perhaps more evident in classical and jazz recordings with unamplified instruments (and not overly compressed during the mixing process).

I found that the difference is also very noticable when the music has genuine depth (such as a recording in chapel / cathedral), as it opens up immensely in a highly natural manner. In fact, I am fortunate to have some recordings where I have intimate knowledge of the recording environment (for example, by actually attending a concert by same musicians playing the same Bach cantata in the same chapel where the recording eventually took place). There, the difference HMS brings in terms of reality (or believablity) to the depth / soundstage feels unmistakable, at least for me.
Of course, depending on ones's ear, choice of music, and audio system set up, his/her MMV ... and that's completely OK.

I've had my TT2 for about 4 months. I received my M Scaler today, and have been listening to it for about 3 hours now. I was going to hold off on my "first impressions", but I'm finding it hard to do! Windseeker, your comments are very well stated. I'm experiencing the same observations. The bass and sub-bass are so much "cleaner", and well-timed. I think some people are thinking they hear "less bass". I think it's really just cleaner, better timed, and not as "muddy" or "boomy" sounding. I listen to mainly jazz. The difference in bass (acoustic and electric) with the HMS is not trivial. You can really hear the note attack (i.e. initial pluck/pick of the string) much cleaner. The other immediate realization is the drum/percussion sounds, especially cymbals. As a has-been professional drummer, I've learned the challenges of recording and reproducing cymbals accurately. Another immediate observation is the clarity and presence of female vocals (e.g. Diana Krall, Holly Cole so far).

The hardest thing to describe about what the HMS adds is the emotion that is brought out in me. I know...VERY subjective, but it's real. I can't really explain the goosebumps or the eyes tearing up. It just does. Lang Lang's Piano Book and Yo-Yo Ma's Six Evolutions, Bach: Cello Suites. Listening to these artists is well worth the price of admission (TT2, HMS).

Being able to change the OP SR to "bypass" is the best sales-pitch for the HMS !! I couldn't agree more with Windseeker's statement, "I certainly wouldn't want to go back to a world without it".

So, thank you @Rob Watts for designing and tuning the HMS ! It's a remarkable product !!

 

[Rob Watts]

Just vaguely thinking about the M-Scaler. (Other things to sort first anyway.) I figured out that delay caused by M-Scaler and DAC when viewing video, could be negated by passing through M-Scaler. I think there was a fix for delay, when using DAC and M-Scaler.

However when using pass through, is there any delay at all. I find when using Mojo, Hugo 2, or TT2, there is no delay with video. Is it the same when passing through M-Scaler. Or does the routing cause a fraction of delay. I am thinking not, but asking anyway please?

Yes pass thru has the same delay as normal operation, it's just the filter that is disabled.

differences in audio products at the level of the dave or even hugo 2 are nuanced....it isnt as if you are going from a transistor radio to a dave etc..ii also find the differences present themselves to me over time depending on the music i listen to...for instance if i listen to a compressed oasis recording it is going to be much more difficult to hear nuanced differences than an acoustic jazz recording or well recorded frank sinatra recording etc....also a 20% improvement is quite substantial, people seem to think that if you spend twice as much money you will see twice the performance it doesnt work that way...if you can afford it a 20% increase in performance is well worth it if you cannot then it is not worth it....also i find there are times when i can hear nuance more than others...at night, when i am relaxed etc....this whole hobby is subjective and nuanced

Hmm - I don't in one sense disagree with you - except that it really depends upon the listener. To some it will be very small; to others nuanced or subtle; to others huge! We all have different sensitivities to audio, both in terms of objective assessment (depth, soundstage, timbre, instrument sep and focus etc) and to how the sound affects you emotionally (the musicality), which of course is intensely personal.

At the end of the day, we all like to hear better transparency and more refinement, and are all willing to spend what we can to get that; but at the end of the day that is not the most important thing, or the thing that lasts. You get an upgrade, and for the next month are excited about hearing better depth for example; but after a bit that excitement fades. What you are left with - permanently - is the systems innate ability to enable you to enjoy music more - and an upgrade in that direction will last forever. And this is where the M scaler really scores for me - my ability to enjoy music took a huge step up with the M scaler, so much so that I have to have an M scaler whilst listening to music - even when on the go...

Does this mean all listeners will feel the same? No absolutely not, as we are all different with different music, tastes, and sensitivities.

 

[GreenBow]

Yes pass thru has the same delay as normal operation, it's just the filter that is disabled.

I thought it would be possible there would be no delay using M-Scaler in pass through. When I consider how far the signal has to go anyway: from PC, to TT2, to amplifier, to speakers. With that set up all looks good, with video.

It made me think that adding another much shorter (M-Scaler path in to the chain, would be OK. However I didn't know if the M-Scaler interacted with the signal in pass through. Like it if clocks the signal, or does any other process while in pass through.

 

[Triode User]

I thought it would be possible there would be no delay using M-Scaler in pass through. When I consider how far the signal has to go anyway: from PC, to TT2, to amplifier, to speakers. With that set up all looks good, with video.

It made me think that adding another much shorter (M-Scaler path in to the chain, would be OK. However I didn't know if the M-Scaler interacted with the signal in pass through. Like it if clocks the signal, or does any other process while in pass through.

Your other option is just to plug the video sound direct into the DAC. I do that with the telly and listen through an optical connection into Dave. It saves me having to swop settings on the Mscaler. Also, I have the auto video switching turned off on the Mscaler because I have several 48k audio files and I do not want the Mscaler going into video mode when I am listening to music.

 

[GreenBow]

Your other option is just to plug the video sound direct into the DAC. I do that with the telly and listen through an optical connection into Dave. It saves me having to swop settings on the Mscaler. Also, I have the auto video switching turned off on the Mscaler because I have several 48k audio files and I do not want the Mscaler going into video mode when I am listening to music.

Wow, you threw some curve balls there.

If I got that right, you're saying that the M-Scaler treats 48K signals as video. Then the M-Scaler reacts to that as video. Not sure what that means exactly. However my DAB radio runs at 48K.

Secondly though, I am not sure I would have enough inputs in the TT2, but I might. Will have to think it through.

I suppose I could run two USB from my PC. One to TT2 and one to M-Scaler. (M-Scaler out to TT2 via 2x coax.) Might mean manually unplugging the M-Scaler though, when watching video. Or run one USB from PC, and do as you say.
Then one optical on DAB to TT2. (Or M-Scaler.)
Then I foresee another optical source. (Will be buying a fan-less laptop/netbook as a mini server, for when PC is off.) Just hope I can get optical on a small fan-less laptop.


That's if I have got it all right! I don't have to run everything through the M-Scaler though, like DAB radio. Just the two outputs from PC to fathom. I could use USB to TT2 and optical to M-Scaler, both from PC. It makes switching a bit awkward on PC, but fine.