Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

[bpcans]

@ZappaMan, if you’re streaming music % of the time like I am then it’s not only very important, it’s critical for getting the best listening experience.

 

[musickid]

A usb class 2 certified cable for 15 pounds in addition with wave BNC stream cables gives me excellent results. Everything working correct technically giving the best possible SQ IMHO.

 

[musickid]

@ZappaMan, if you’re streaming music % of the time like I am then it’s not only very important, it’s critical for getting the best listening experience.

I feel this also applies to the mscaler. Without it the music looses all of its energy and sparkle. Going from a 3d to 2d presentation. 44.1khz sounds so flat compared to 705khz 1M taps. I can't understand how people can't hear it unless the music is mainstream to the extent the recording is so bad the mscaler can't do much to help. Listen with a recording that can make that difference.

 

[LCMusicLover]

You've all got me wondering about RFI for my mScaler/TT2 stack.

Currently running Silver Dragon BNCs between them, powering them with a battery. Source is Digione powered by Shanti outputting S/PDIF to mScaler BNC.

I've read a bunch of posts talking about how much improvement the Opto DX can bring, so of course my fingers got itchy again

But I'm wondering if there's a way for me to know if I have a problem to solve. I'm familiar with the sort of RFI my DAPs can pick up from (say) my cell phone. But what should I be listening for with my mTT2 stack? I mean by the time I get the Opto with the premium optical cable, (two ?) LPSs to run it, and another quality BNC cable pair, I could be half way towards another TOTL set of cans. So I'd like to know whether this problem actually exists with my system.

Other noisy questions:

- What LPS are folks using to power the Opto?
- Are you using two separate LPSs for the transmitter & receiver?
- How far apart are your mScaler and TT2?
- Is vertical spacing as good as horizontal spacing?

Stuck between
don't let perfect be the enemy of good
and
strive for perfection so when you fall short it's still very good

 

[ZappaMan]

You've all got me wondering about RFI for my mScaler/TT2 stack.

Currently running Silver Dragon BNCs between them, powering them with a battery. Source is Digione powered by Shanti outputting S/PDIF to mScaler BNC.

I've read a bunch of posts talking about how much improvement the Opto DX can bring, so of course my fingers got itchy again

But I'm wondering if there's a way for me to know if I have a problem to solve. I'm familiar with the sort of RFI my DAPs can pick up from (say) my cell phone. But what should I be listening for with my mTT2 stack? I mean by the time I get the Opto with the premium optical cable, (two ?) LPSs to run it, and another quality BNC cable pair, I could be half way towards another TOTL set of cans. So I'd like to know whether this problem actually exists with my system.

Other noisy questions:

- What LPS are folks using to power the Opto?
- Are you using two separate LPSs for the transmitter & receiver?
- How far apart are your mScaler and TT2?
- Is vertical spacing as good as horizontal spacing?

Stuck between
don't let perfect be the enemy of good
and
strive for perfection so when you fall short it's still very good

I’ve decided to spend the time to experiment, so see if I disconnect everything, then add it back in 1 bit at a time, to see it I can discern the changes … otherwise I suppose my money s better spent elsewhere

 

[Jawed]

You've all got me wondering about RFI for my mScaler/TT2 stack.

You can do a simple diagnostic test for RF noise, with M Scaler set to do no upscaling. You can then compare the sound quality of the dual-BNC connection between M Scaler versus an optical cable.

So listen to some music with the dual-BNC connection and no upscaling. Then remove the two BNC cables from both M Scaler and TT2. Then connect the optical output from M Scaler to an optical input on TT2 and listen to that. Can you hear a difference?

You can repeat this test with one level of M Scaling, e.g. with upscaling set to 176.4KHz for CD quality (44.1KHz). See if you can hear a difference between the dual-BNC connection and the optical connection.

If you can't hear a difference, try to increase the distance between M Scaler and TT2 and try again.

Because you are using battery power, there should be relatively small differences heard in these experiments. You may find that separating M Scaler and TT2 produces the greatest benefit.

 

[LCMusicLover]

You can do a simple diagnostic test for RF noise, with M Scaler set to do no upscaling. You can then compare the sound quality of the dual-BNC connection between M Scaler versus an optical cable.

So listen to some music with the dual-BNC connection and no upscaling. Then remove the two BNC cables from both M Scaler and TT2. Then connect the optical output from M Scaler to an optical input on TT2 and listen to that. Can you hear a difference?

You can repeat this test with one level of M Scaling, e.g. with upscaling set to 176.4KHz for CD quality (44.1KHz). See if you can hear a difference between the dual-BNC connection and the optical connection.

If you can't hear a difference, try to increase the distance between M Scaler and TT2 and try again.

Because you are using battery power, there should be relatively small differences heard in these experiments. You may find that separating M Scaler and TT2 produces the greatest benefit.

Thanks, I really appreciate the answer. Couple follow-up questions:

- When testing, what should I be listening for?
- Separating the stack -- how far, and is vertical spacing 'just as good'? For much horizontal separation I'd need new, longer BNCs, while a good amount of vertical separation is possible with my current BNCs.

 

[zen87192]

This works for me currently if it helps...

 

[bpcans]

@LCMusicLover, to paraphrase the old saying that absence makes the heart grow fonder, in the case of the TT2 and the m scaler “distance makes the music sound better”.

 

[LCMusicLover]

This works for me currently if it helps...

Yes, thanks. I can reproduce that on my rack w/ just a bit of shuffling.

 

[Progisus]

Yes, thanks. I can reproduce that on my rack w/ just a bit of shuffling.

I find it hard to believe that Chord do not advise separating the mscaler and tt2 if rfi other than through cables is such a problem. They should know the distance required. But of course this is audio so measurements do not apply.

 

[LCMusicLover]

Different question -- powering mScaler & TT2 w/ DC direct out of batteries (no inversion).

I've got the power to the batteries plugged into a power strip which is plugged into the wall. So I just turn off the power strip while using the system, then back on to charge afterwards. Could line noise leak through even w/ the power-strip off?

Thinking about this, it's clear that the Opto-DX is quite an elegant solution. With the conversion happening at the last step before the DAC, you eliminate a plethora of possible noise sources and only need worry about power conditioning for the DAC and amp (and of course the receiver for the Opto).

 

[ra990]

Different question -- powering mScaler & TT2 w/ DC direct out of batteries (no inversion).

I've got the power to the batteries plugged into a power strip which is plugged into the wall. So I just turn off the power strip while using the system, then back on to charge afterwards. Could line noise leak through even w/ the power-strip off?

I prefer to disconnect entirely from the mains. But, depending on the power strip, it might be just as good turning it off.

 

[Jawed]

Thanks, I really appreciate the answer. Couple follow-up questions:

- When testing, what should I be listening for?
- Separating the stack -- how far, and is vertical spacing 'just as good'? For much horizontal separation I'd need new, longer BNCs, while a good amount of vertical separation is possible with my current BNCs.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-1113#post-16160284

In terms of separation, as much as possible. This is only a test, so for a few hours it doesn't matter if it's impractical. e.g. place both on the floor with their sockets facing each other, spaced as long as your cables allow.

Different question -- powering mScaler & TT2 w/ DC direct out of batteries (no inversion).

I've got the power to the batteries plugged into a power strip which is plugged into the wall. So I just turn off the power strip while using the system, then back on to charge afterwards. Could line noise leak through even w/ the power-strip off?

Thinking about this, it's clear that the Opto-DX is quite an elegant solution. With the conversion happening at the last step before the DAC, you eliminate a plethora of possible noise sources and only need worry about power conditioning for the DAC and amp (and of course the receiver for the Opto).

Your power strip probably doesn't use a single switch to disconnect each socket from the others, so turning it off seems unlikely to provide the maximum isolation.

Battery power for the receiving half of the Opto-DX system is well-liked.

It's worth remembering that battery banks typically used for powering laptops contain a "noisy" DC-to-DC converter, which is similar to a SMPS.

I don't know of any sound quality assessments of power banks...

 

[LCMusicLover]

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-1113#post-16160284

In terms of separation, as much as possible. This is only a test, so for a few hours it doesn't matter if it's impractical. e.g. place both on the floor with their sockets facing each other, spaced as long as your cables allow.

Your power strip probably doesn't use a single switch to disconnect each socket from the others, so turning it off seems unlikely to provide the maximum isolation.

Battery power for the receiving half of the Opto-DX system is well-liked.

It's worth remembering that battery banks typically used for powering laptops contain a "noisy" DC-to-DC converter, which is similar to a SMPS.

I don't know of any sound quality assessments of power banks...

Good points all.

I'll certainly try your test to listen for noise at the furthest separation I can manage (3 feet I think).

As for the power strip, I plug the two batteries into the power strip ... nothing else. So the point of the question was whether line noise might show up even when the power strip is off.

And regarding 'DC-to-DC' conversion -- I've been assuming none is needed since I'm using the 'native' voltage of the battery -- perhaps I'm ... poorly informed