Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread
Sep 20, 2018 at 2:24 PM Post #1,381 of 18,535
Does the new M Scaler work with Hugo 1? I have Dave and Hugo 1. Can I use the M Scaler with both? What are the limitations?

You won't be able to get to the full 1M with Hugo1. That requires dual coax, and the Hugo1 (as I understand it) only has a single digital coax input. With the Hugo1, you should be able to get the equivalent of 500k taps from mScaler (which is pretty awesome) by connecting a single coax cable to mScaler.
 
Sep 20, 2018 at 3:59 PM Post #1,382 of 18,535
I have always found the AQ Diamond usb cable to be a big improvement to all my Chord dacs.

And a big thumbs up for Curious cable USB (now relegated to Mojo) and wireworld platinum USB (Hugo 2). Digital cables do make a difference in the sound that I hear - if there was a consensus on this then we could start investigating why this is the case..... RFI, Latency (is this possible?), Jitter etc.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to people trying out different BNC cables with the mscaler. From initial impressions it seems like the addition of ferrites might mean that cable matching might differ from the Blu Mk2....

Ade
 
Sep 20, 2018 at 4:02 PM Post #1,383 of 18,535
And a big thumbs up for Curious cable USB (now relegated to Mojo) and wireworld platinum USB (Hugo 2). Digital cables do make a difference in the sound that I hear - if there was a consensus on this then we could start investigating why this is the case..... RFI, Latency (is this possible?), Jitter etc.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to people trying out different BNC cables with the mscaler. From initial impressions it seems like the addition of ferrites might mean that cable matching might differ from the Blu Mk2....

Ade

No there is no consensus in digital transport, barely in analogue., however Chord sarum T digital USB really impressed....Just head to sound science,lol....
 
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Sep 20, 2018 at 4:05 PM Post #1,384 of 18,535
I believe Rob Watts has said he hears no difference with different USB cables. A lot depends on how good a particular device's USB transceiver is. Assuming Chord's is likely very good if not the best available.
 
Sep 20, 2018 at 5:53 PM Post #1,385 of 18,535
@STR-1
One point in your HMS review stood out for me: that adding ferrites to the dual-coax link made the sound worse(surprisingly) ...and @Rob Watts was looking into this. I'd appreciate an update.

I am very keen on buying an HMS to pair with my hugo2 and based on the Blu2 thread, assumed ferrites were the route to nirvana.
Thanks
Dan
 
Sep 20, 2018 at 6:09 PM Post #1,386 of 18,535
Please figure out why ferrites are needed ( if they are) and remove that need chord.
 
Sep 20, 2018 at 6:46 PM Post #1,387 of 18,535
Please figure out why ferrites are needed ( if they are) and remove that need chord.

Well, this is what Rob has to say about it so I reckon Chord would feel the same, but like everything in this hobby... YMMV.

The filter code is identical; the benefit of the Hugo M scaler is that the isolation on the dual BNC's has been improved, so you don't need to worry about ferrites.
 
Sep 21, 2018 at 1:07 AM Post #1,388 of 18,535
Maybe if someone spent a lot on the MS, they might like a nice cheaper Hugo1 for the time being. Perhaps I should finally try to sell it, as it's just sitting there with fresh batteries. Half a million taps's better than nothing, N'est pas?
 
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Sep 21, 2018 at 1:24 AM Post #1,389 of 18,535
@STR-1
One point in your HMS review stood out for me: that adding ferrites to the dual-coax link made the sound worse(surprisingly) ...and @Rob Watts was looking into this. I'd appreciate an update.

I am very keen on buying an HMS to pair with my hugo2 and based on the Blu2 thread, assumed ferrites were the route to nirvana.
Thanks
Dan

Listening tests are still on going - but for sure clamp on ferrites do not work, sounding slightly brighter... I will report when I have finished all my tests.
 
Sep 21, 2018 at 2:42 AM Post #1,390 of 18,535
Very interesting impressions, and not too long or rambling - because the reader needs to understand the context for any impressions to be useful.

Within the caveats of "early days" and the variables you mentioned, your results seem to indicate that digital cables, both before and after the m-scaler, still matter quite a bit, even if they may not matter quite as much as they did with the Blu-2.

And also that the Hugo m-scaler may sound a bit better, or at least darker, than the Blu-2 with the same cables.

BTW, when comparing HEK vs Utopia headphones, did your HEK also have the supa dupa Prion cables?

Yes, I also thought it was an interesting and useful set of thoughts and comments from @STR-1 and thanks for them.

@STR-1
One point in your HMS review stood out for me: that adding ferrites to the dual-coax link made the sound worse(surprisingly) ...and @Rob Watts was looking into this. I'd appreciate an update.

I am very keen on buying an HMS to pair with my hugo2 and based on the Blu2 thread, assumed ferrites were the route to nirvana.
Thanks
Dan

For the benefit of Christer, all my following observations are made listening to Marcus Miller on his Laid Black album, track one. When played nice and loud this track makes it easy for me to hear harshness and glare. It is also good for detecting shape and detail in bass notes. If by 3 minutes in you get a feeling of wanting to turn it down then there is a problem. If by then you want to turn it up then it is a good sign. The copy I have is 24 bit, 48kHz purchased as a download from Qobuz onto a Zenith SE connected by USB cable.

Having now listened to the HMS for just under a week, side by side with Blu2 and I am still very very impressed.

I also am doing a range of listening tests and my views so far are -

1. The Hugo MScaler is fixed as far as a need for extra ferrites.The darkness and lack of glare (ie lack of RF) of a straight out of the box HMS goes a long way towards the sound of a 'sorted' Blu2. Possibly / probably far enough for many people.

2. I agree that clip on ferrites do appear to make HMS worse.

3. Solid core ferrites which are tight fitting on the cable do not appear to make HMS worse (certainly up to 20 per cable).

4. Hugo MScaler used with a bare 1m set of quality BNC cables does not sound as good to me as a Blu2 with WAVE Storm 20 ferrite cables (what I regard as a 'sorted' Blu2).
I define good or better in all this in terms of darkness, lack of glare, increased bass definition and reduced listening fatigue.

5. Hugo MScaler used with WAVE Storm 20 ferrite cables sounds as good as a Blu2 with the same cable.

6. Longer cables also appear to be better than shorter - I have compared 1m and 2m so far. 2m appeared better than 1m but not as good as a 4 ferrite 1m cable.

7. With 20 ferrite WAVE cables I find that that both MScalers are pretty impervious to different USB cables and I therefore now use a simple Supra 2.0 USB cable. Before I used to have a Chord Sarum T USB cable. As an aside I have found that with the same 20 ferrite cable the difference between servers is now more subtle to the point of being difficult to hear (for me at least).

8. 20 ferrites are probably not needed for HMS to be as good as a sorted Blu2 because of the already very good RF isolation built into HMS. I am currently listening to a variety of cables with different numbers of ferrites to find the point where I think more ferrites make little or no difference.

If there is one thing that Blu2 has taught me it is that dark is good and any brightness betrays RF noise. Once you arrive at the darkest possible sound then the trick is to take time to let your ears and brain adjust to the new sound which initially might sound as if it has less detail. After a while your ears will adjust and you will hear the true detail previously hidden by the brightness or false detail of the RF artifacts. Related to this I suggest being wary of selecting any digital cables (not just MScaler dual BNC) for their sense of detail or similar as that can only be RF artifacts giving an illusion of detail. (I could add in a YMMV to that but it would be disingenuous).

Just to emphasise again, the Hugo MScaler has proper RF filtering built in and sounds amazing straight out of the box with no added ferrites. I am fiddling because I have the facilities to make up loads of different cables to see how easy it is to get the HMS to sound as good as a 'sorted' Blu2.
 
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Sep 21, 2018 at 4:35 AM Post #1,391 of 18,535
A very interesting write-up @Triode User. Gives me encouragement to do a bit more testing just as soon as my batteries are recharged.

It’s interesting that @Rob Watts preliminary finding with the ferrites is that they make things sound brighter. With me, they made things sound duller, though I only tried ferrites with my Clearer Audio cables. I will revisit this to double check.

Interesting also that you have taken things to the point where USB cables no longer make a difference. I wish I could say the same for my system. It would make it so much easier to be satisfied.

Just so I understand all the key differences between our systems (me using headphones and a USB regenerator, but not your WAVE cables being just three) can you say a little about how you connect to the mains. With me, it’s DAVE via a Shunyata Alpha HC power chord straight into a wall socket. With everything else I use the supplied or standard power cables. The SR4 powering my tX-USBultra is also plugged into a wall socket, while the Zenith SE and Mscaler are plugged into a first generation Shunyata UK6 mains block, which itself is underperforming because it is connected to the mains with a cheap C19 cable bought off Amazon (I am agonising over whether to invest further in this mains block and Shunyata cables generally).

Finally, just to mention the Festival of Sound show in London next week, which would be a good opportunity for some to hear the latest Chord gear. My main interest will be to hear how much better the Zenith Statement is compared to the Zenith SE.
 
Sep 21, 2018 at 4:51 AM Post #1,392 of 18,535
A very interesting write-up @Triode User. Gives me encouragement to do a bit more testing just as soon as my batteries are recharged.

It’s interesting that @Rob Watts preliminary finding with the ferrites is that they make things sound brighter. With me, they made things sound duller, though I only tried ferrites with my Clearer Audio cables. I will revisit this to double check.

Interesting also that you have taken things to the point where USB cables no longer make a difference. I wish I could say the same for my system. It would make it so much easier to be satisfied.

Just so I understand all the key differences between our systems (me using headphones and a USB regenerator, but not your WAVE cables being just three) can you say a little about how you connect to the mains. With me, it’s DAVE via a Shunyata Alpha HC power chord straight into a wall socket. With everything else I use the supplied or standard power cables. The SR4 powering my tX-USBultra is also plugged into a wall socket, while the Zenith SE and Mscaler are plugged into a first generation Shunyata UK6 mains block, which itself is underperforming because it is connected to the mains with a cheap C19 cable bought off Amazon (I am agonising over whether to invest further in this mains block and Shunyata cables generally).

Finally, just to mention the Festival of Sound show in London next week, which would be a good opportunity for some to hear the latest Chord gear. My main interest will be to hear how much better the Zenith Statement is compared to the Zenith SE.

One thing to bear in mind is that I am relating all my listening back to a set of 20 close fitting solid core ferrites as being my reference 'darkness'. My comment on the USB cable lack of difference relates only to my experiences with my own 'sorted' Blu2 and the HMS with the same cable. I cannot comment on the Clearer Audio cables.

I have an open mind about power cables but the moment I use stock 'kettle' (does everyone call them that or is it only the UK?) cables for my Pass Labs amps and my own simple screened 2.5mm mains cables for the MScalers, Dave and Zenith. I have no mains conditioning. I tried a PS Audio P10 but did not like it.
 
Sep 21, 2018 at 7:50 AM Post #1,395 of 18,535
@Triode User
Holy moly thanks for the fantastic work! And thanks for being technically honest in attributing RF as the only negative in the equation. Digital cables cannot 'add' or 'impart' anything sound wise and your well chosen words indicate you understand exactly that. The cables we need are just RF vacuums thru their design and construction. Too bad inexpensive clamp on ferrites are not a good simple solution.
Dan
 

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