[koven]

That you need a £2K+ box to get the best from USB, suggests USB is to be avoided as flawed, saving yourself £2K+? I already settled on S/PDIF after I couldn't find a USB connection that sounded as good. Perhaps it was because I didn't have the Phoenix...? Would be interesting to read comparisons of S/PDIF vs Phoenix'd USB.

It's almost like Innuos only included USB on their units just so they can sell you a Phoenix down the road..

 

[Vyyy]

Hi, can this battery actually feed the m scaler (for test reasons and i understand that i void guarantee)?
Link
From specs:
USB Output 1: 5V/3A,9V/2A, 12V/1.5A

Is there any chance that battery can output momentum voltage that is way over 12V? Better to test first? \

Thanks.

 

[Triode User]

Hi, can this battery actually feed the m scaler (for test reasons and i understand that i void guarantee)?
Link
From specs:
USB Output 1: 5V/3A,9V/2A, 12V/1.5A
Is there any chance that battery can output momentum voltage that is way over 12V? Better to test first? \
Thanks.

You would be advised to check the voltage before plugging it in. I have a PowerAdd battery and it outputs several volts more than its specified output.

 

[Triode User]

It's almost like Innuos only included USB on their units just so they can sell you a Phoenix down the road..

Innuos use USB because they have measured it compared to optical circuits and the usb generated less noise than the optical (the optical conversion process in the DAC can generate noise). That is why they use USB and not optical in their higher end equipment (although optical is available in the lower spec units). When Innuos brought out their Zenith SE they always intended that they would offer upgrade options to bring it closer to the performance of the top of the range Statement. The Phoenix is the result of that upgrade philosophy so owners of the Zenith SE can get closer to the Statement without having to sell their SE. As it happens the Phoenix also upgrades the sound quality in other Innuos Zeniths and also those from other manufacturers. I have heard the sound quality gains from adding the Phoenix to a Zenith SE and to me it is a significant improvement.

 

[naynay]

I think what will come next is a 3 box solution server renderer and power source.
Innuos has proved with the Statement seperate power and server improvements are heard and with Antipodes server and renderer seperate gives improved performance.

 

[Progisus]

I’ve used battery powered iphone, ipad usb out to various dacs and mscaler and found them to have a bright sound. I put this down to inferior usb outputs. Even a PI4 improved greatly on this. The clean usb output of my server was an ear opener. I never tried the ipod so it may be better. The concept is a good one as I also found that if one has a stable wifi then it breaks any dc ground plane noise traveling on the copper.

 

[JaZZ]

I'm going to have to agree here. The battery powered XDuoo X10T2 I'm using as a source. I don't stream so it works great for me with my files. I would love to see more of you try it for the mere $230 to buy one. So far nobody has compared it to their mega bucks servers. I have it via Lifatec Glass to HMS. Clear and awesome powerful sound. Convince me otherwise.

I'm in the same boat. My new source is a FiiO M11 Pro with a 1 TB SD card in it. It replaces my desktop computer. Briefly a HP laptop (also with foobar2000) was my new favorite due to the smoother sound and expanded depth it provided, but the M11 Pro as souce is a further step up in this respect. Moreover it allows me to use the Neutron player with its extremely versatile parametric (64 bit!) equalizers, ideal to «perfectly» linearize my headphones individually.

Now it's astonishing that a digital signal path via M Scaler and its galvanically isolated dual-BNC output – and Wave Storm cables in my case – still allows such sonic differences, so I won't exclude the possibility that an audiophile server has some (further?) merits, but for me the now solution is simply good enough, actually perfect.

So why aren't more perfectionist music lovers ready to try this approach with costs much less and offers much higher flexibility? Particularly the possibility to respect the most important criterion with music reproduction that's still the most flawed in the real world: a flat amplitude response.

 

[GreenBow]

I'm in the same boat. My new source is a FiiO M11 Pro with a 1 GB SD card in it. It replaces my desktop computer. Briefly a HP laptop (also with foobar2000) was my new favorite due to the smoother sound and expanded depth it provided, but the M11 Pro as souce is a further step up in this respect. Moreover it allows me to use the Neutron player with its extremely versatile parametric (64 bit!) equalizers, ideal to «perfectly» linearize my headphones individually.

Now it's astonishing that a digital signal path via M Scaler and its galvanically isolated dual-BNC output – and Wave Storm cables in my case – still allows such sonic differences, so I won't exclude the possibility that an audiophile server has some (further?) merits, but for me the now solution is simply good enough, actually perfect.

So why aren't more perfectionist music lovers ready to try this approach with costs much less and offers much higher flexibility? Particularly the possibility to respect the most important criterion with music reproduction that's still the most flawed in the real world: a flat amplitude response.

I have been looking at the Fiio M11 Pro.

Does it receive music files stream from a server, then output them to DAC, please? I don't mean over Bluetooth, I mean via wifi.

I honestly think if they had made that with a replaceable battery, I would already have bought one.

 

[ZappaMan]

I'm in the same boat. My new source is a FiiO M11 Pro with a 1 GB SD card in it. It replaces my desktop computer. Briefly a HP laptop (also with foobar2000) was my new favorite due to the smoother sound and expanded depth it provided, but the M11 Pro as souce is a further step up in this respect. Moreover it allows me to use the Neutron player with its extremely versatile parametric (64 bit!) equalizers, ideal to «perfectly» linearize my headphones individually.

Now it's astonishing that a digital signal path via M Scaler and its galvanically isolated dual-BNC output – and Wave Storm cables in my case – still allows such sonic differences, so I won't exclude the possibility that an audiophile server has some (further?) merits, but for me the now solution is simply good enough, actually perfect.

So why aren't more perfectionist music lovers ready to try this approach with costs much less and offers much higher flexibility? Particularly the possibility to respect the most important criterion with music reproduction that's still the most flawed in the real world: a flat amplitude response.

to me, it comes down to a question that I dont know the answer to for sure. if you had two servers at different ends of the scale, and both output via toslink, would the signals passed along the optical cable be identical in both cases. Or would the act of using a machine to emit a signal introduce a variance that can be regarded as being detrimental when the signal is reconstructued by the received.
i'm betting that any two different servers will have enough variance in mechanical aspects and software aspects, that the signals being transmitted are not the same. I'm in dangerous territory now, but that the reason is because of the necessity of generating square waves to encode the binary data to analogue signal, and those square waves can only ever be approximations. so he who has the squarest waves, will have the more accurate sound.

 

[JaZZ]

I have been looking at the Fiio M11 Pro.

Does it receive music files stream from a server, then output them to DAC, please? I don't mean over Bluetooth, I mean via wifi.

I honestly think if they had made that with a replaceable battery, I would already have bought one.

All I can say is that it supports WiFi, which is even necessary to install apps (such as the Neutron player). However, I don't have WiFi myself, so don't really know if it can receive a music stream from a server – but would think so. On the other hand, the M11 (Pro) can serve as a server itself – think 1 TB SD card or 2 TB external SSD.

i'm betting that any two different servers will have enough variance in mechanical aspects and software aspects, that the signals being transmitted are not the same. I'm in dangerous territory now, but that the reason is because of the necessity of generating square waves to encode the binary data to analogue signal, and those square waves can only ever be approximations. so he who has the squarest waves, will have the more accurate sound.

You're talking of the signal shape of the S/PDIF or USB signal, right? Now from what I know both M Scaler and DAVE can reclock the digital signal quasi-perfectly, thus aren't dependent on a perfect signal shape to avoid jitter. That means this scenario most likely can't be used as an explanation for the perceived sonic differences.

 

[ZappaMan]

All I can say is that it supports WiFi, which is even necessary to install apps (such as the Neutron player). However, I don't have WiFi myself, so don't really know if it can receive a music stream from a server – but would think so. On the other hand, the M11 (Pro) can serve as a server itself – think 1 TB SD card or 2 TB external SSD.



You're talking of the signal shape of the S/PDIF or USB signal, right? Now from what I know both M Scaler and DAVE can reclock the digital signal quasi-perfectly, thus aren't dependent on a perfect signal shape to avoid jitter. That means this scenario most likely can't be used as an explanation for the perceived sonic differences.

Id like to understand it better surely. but if the source is emitting a different signal on different servers, what exactly is it reclocking, how can it regain a signal that was altered on the source emiter, its whole context is just the stream that it receives. I thought that it was not carrying a checksum either. We surely need electronics engineers to help us fathom.

i suspect, higher performing source components, can actually put more information into the signal, correctly timed, producing a more accurate, detailed signal for the source to consume. I think tiny variations from the source, cause the timing to be messed up on the receiver and then it cannot separate the instruments and different audible cues.

 

[Triode User]

We surely need electronics engineers to help us fathom.

With fathoms I think you need naval architects rather than engineers.

 

[ZappaMan]

With fathoms I think you need naval architects rather than engineers.

check the verb dear.

 

[GreenBow]

All I can say is that it supports WiFi, which is even necessary to install apps (such as the Neutron player). However, I don't have WiFi myself, so don't really know if it can receive a music stream from a server – but would think so. On the other hand, the M11 (Pro) can serve as a server itself – think 1 TB SD card or 2 TB external SSD.

Yeah I spent some time looing at what it says on the M11 website, and the part about wifi. (It's quite a way down the page.)

I am not sure if it means you can control your server with the M11 Pro. Then make the server send files by cable to the DAP. … Or it means you can steam over wifi to the DAP. …… The wording it uses on the M11 Pro page actually makes no grammatical or logical sense to me. I can't understand it.
https://www.fiio.com/m11pro

It's the part of the webpage that says:
Your personal music portal. Get your songs through DNLA, Airplay, or Wifi. .... Then what's written under that heading says what it does, but I don't understand it.

If you can steam to this DAP over wifi, and not just lossless/lossy compressed bluetooth, then it's an incredible machine. Especially considering it's knocking it out of the park, in all reviews, just as a DAP. If only they had made the battery replaceable, or if it is.



I looked on the M11 page (4TB on that DAP - astonishing). There is a more filled out explanation there, but it is still vague. I think both DAPs use the same system.
https://www.fiio.com/m11

 

[JaZZ]

Id like to understand it better surely. but if the source is emitting a different signal on different servers, what exactly is it reclocking, how can it regain a signal that was altered on the source emiter, its whole context is just the stream that it receives. I thought that it was not carrying a checksum either. We surely need electronics engineers to help us fathom.

i suspect, higher performing source components, can actually put more information into the signal, correctly timed, producing a more accurate, detailed signal for the source to consume. I think tiny variations from the source, cause the timing to be messed up on the receiver and then it cannot separate the instruments and different audible cues.

If the address of the recipient on a postal letter is written correctly, the letter will reach it, no matter if it is written in calligraphy, block letters or cursive – as long as it can be read by the reading machine at the distribution center. The same goes for numbers on a pay-in slip. So the analogue signal from a DAC won't be any more «accurate» with signals with sharper edges, unless the rounding leads to corrupted timing (= jitter).