[Deftone]

I'm not being dismissive of everything, rob himself said that 1 million taps was what was needed for his mscaler based upon calculations. My opinion and it is only my opinion, but I doubt that a higher number of taps filter/mscaler will be much better than 1 million taps.

For instance when the mscaler stand alone first came out, some folk could hardly hear the difference between that and their dac used on it's own without the mscaler.

Now before fireworks start going off, "Rob's unexpected SQ improvement", take that with a pinch of salt, as it's coming from Rob, an engineer. One who solely focuses on audio and frequencies. Read as, someone who knows the audio spectrum inside and out, unlike a huge chunk of the worlds population.

Case in point. His filters improve/change the SQ, but 98% of users can't tell the difference between them. I doubt very much anyone but rob could reliably tell the difference between them in blind tests as we don't have decades of audio spectrum testing that he does.

Yes if you fill your mouth with food it may cause you to hear differently when chewing, but you know the type of folk that I mean, those who can put on a pair of socks and say they noticed a sq improvement. The type of folk who notice a change in audio when there is no change.

Kinda like buying those pointy triangle things and sticking their dacs on top of it, What, thats the type of thing that gives audiophiles a bad name.

Recently there was someone demoing an mscaler + dave instore with their dealer, this guy already had a chord dave at home but heard about all the improvements it brings, he told the dealer he coulnt beleive how impressed he was with it and wanted one for himself, turned out the previous person that was listening to the system left it on pass through mode so he hadnt heard the mscaler at all.

It just shows that we can easily be fooled and also proves if he was that impressed listening to it the Dave alone (unintentionally) then what he had was already more than good enough for him.

 

[dac64]

I have been using the FURMAN AC-210A E power conditioner which I bought because of the noise but it could not eliminate it. I am not familiar with these gears. Do you think that the Airlink could fight the noise better? Does it filter the power differently?

maybe you could find one fine day to switch off AND disconnect ALL your home appliances from the outlets, and listen again.

And donot wrapped up and using a twistie to keep ALL cables tidy, OR coiling the cables, worst onto metal bars, good for looks BUT bad for sounds.

 

[rkt31]

You mean already at the wall socket? The Chord PSUs don't have an earth pin.

Yes, try isolating the earth from mains socket. It should solve the problem. It is unsafe but at least it will confirm that the problem is not in tt2 or HMS.

 

[Christer]

That's a fair point. These are quite different systems and it was oversimplification from my side to tell them apart based on a single aspect. (By the way the MojoPoly is playing the music from the internal SD card, the Poly is in Airplane Mode which means the wi-fi is turned off, only Bluetooth Low Energy is enabled and there is no RF noise as long as the phone is kept far away.)

I guess there are a lot of people who wouldn't care (most of them probably wouldn't come close to these forum) but what bothers me is this subtle electronic noise that still appears in this HMS/TT2 system (even though it got clearly better thanks to the WAVE cables and to this other wall socket). I was listening to this album I bought back in 2014 in 24/88 on hdtracks:

Thanks to the M Scaler it's finally amazing to listen to these mesmerising waves of human voice. But then sometimes these subtle electronic distortions occur and they sort of ruin the moment. I may have high expectations, maybe too much sensitivity, but what if these can be eliminated? I would like to try.

I haven't listened to the particular Harmonia Mundi recording you link to .But since you downloaded it as 24/88 from HD Tracks the noise you say you hear, could actually come from the recording itself or the transfer they have done. And neither TT2/nor HMS would be the culprits?
I have some other Harmonia Mundi recordings and I know they used to record quite a lot in DSD 64 for SACD releases, and later have those recordings converted to pcm as 24/88 files for download sites that do not sell DSD files.
To me DSD 64 recordings that have been through mastering and balancing stages before release,and unfortunately most have, tend to sound audibly noiser than raw DSD64 and native 24 bit pcm recordings.
One possible way of checking the source of the noise would maybe be to stop the music and if the noise is still there it could probably be some kind of system noise. And if not, the noise could be in the recording. And if so, the more transparent your system the more problematic inherent electronic noise picked up by equipment used at sessions like ADC /mics, mic amps or other links in the recording chain will become.
Maybe your Mojo is masking inherent recording noise that TT2/HMS reveals?
Cheers CC

 

[zenlisten]

I haven't listened to the particular Harmonia Mundi recording you link to .But since you downloaded it as 24/88 from HD Tracks the noise you say you hear, could actually come from the recording itself or the transfer they have done. And neither TT2/nor HMS would be the culprits?
I have some other Harmonia Mundi recordings and I know they used to record quite a lot in DSD 64 for SACD releases, and later have those recordings converted to pcm as 24/88 files for download sites that do not sell DSD files.
To me DSD 64 recordings that have been through mastering and balancing stages before release,and unfortunately most have, tend to sound audibly noiser than raw DSD64.
One possible way of checking the source of the noise would maybe be to stop the music and if the noise is still there it could probably be some kind of system noise. And if not, the noise could be in the recording. And if so, the more transparent your system the more problematic inherent electronic noise picked up by equipment used at sessions like ADC /mics, mic amps or other links in the recording chain will become.
Maybe your Mojo is masking inherent recording noise that TT2/HMS reveals?
Cheers CC

This is a very good point. Just like you write I do hear a lot more recording issues with HMS/TT2 and sometimes I am indeed unsure whether it was a recording glitch or the M Scaler doing its usual electric crackles. In this case I go back in the track and if it's audible again then it's in the recording. When listening to a specific album I can usually quickly identify if the recording has a repeating pattern of issues. Many have. Still, they are always more tolerable than the M Scaler's crackling. Recording issues tend to sound more "organic" while the M Scaler crackling is always "electric".

Note that there is no issue if there is no music playing or the M Scaler is out of the chain. I tested both cases thoroughly for a longer time.

This electric crackling is a rather subtle noise and it only happens maybe a couple of times a minute. I can imagine it would not bother some people who always listen to rock music or so. But if the music isn't loud (e.g., a solo instrument is playing or only human voice is audible, etc.) it can be very annoying and it ruins the experience.

 

[HeeBroG]

I have a Fone recording "Ballads for Audiophiles" in DSD64 that seems to crackle with Scott Hamilton's saxophone (esp. track 3 The Gypsy). At first I thought it was my speakers but it also happens with my headphones. I got my brother to listen to it on his headphone setup and he notices it as well. I concluded it must be on the recording and contacted NativeDSD about it. They said nobody else has ever reported this with that album but graciously gave me a coupon to purchase another album. Jonas never confirmed if it was a recording issue. I'm just surprised that this was not noticed in processing/mastering. Fone is supposed to be a pretty good label.

 

[zenlisten]

Regarding the M Scaler crackling I understand from someone (not on this thread) that they've had the same issues and lowering the output sample rate below 7xx fixed the crackles (not that they wanted to use the M Scaler in such a limited way). I am going to test this today once the crackings came back.

However, currently there is no crackling. It's always like this for the first few tracks, sometimes for the duration of the first album. That's why I already reported a few times incorrectly that the issue seemed to be fixed. Currently when I touch the top of the M Scaler it has nice room temperature and the music is flawless. I am curious what will happen when the M Scaler gets warm.

This made me also realize that the crackles usually come with 16/44 resolution. I was surprised the other day that I don't hear crackling while listening to a 24/96 solo cello album. (I thought then that maybe it was because the frequencies of this specific instrument might hide the noise.)

In other words, it's not impossible that the crackling noise appears when M Scaler has more work to do and gets warmer.

 

[GreenBow]

With regard to the claim of noise which comes from the M-Scaler, the solutions are while very clever, a bit expensive.

When I first heard about the 'noise', I googled for 'coaxial cleaners', or something to that effect. I found a single box solution with cable in and cable out. However I can't find it again.

I just googled for coaxial to optical conversion. The highest sample rate I found after a quick search was 192KHz, so half of what is needed. Sad really considering they cost £20. However since this is available, it might be possible there are converters that will do 386KHz. Then also conversion boxes that convert optical back to coaxial at that rate.

I wonder, if there is a genius who knows what to search for there may already be an effective solution.

 

[rkt31]

Regarding the M Scaler crackling I understand from someone (not on this thread) that they've had the same issues and lowering the output sample rate below 7xx fixed the crackles (not that they wanted to use the M Scaler in such a limited way). I am going to test this today once the crackings came back.

However, currently there is no crackling. It's always like this for the first few tracks, sometimes for the duration of the first album. That's why I already reported a few times incorrectly that the issue seemed to be fixed. Currently when I touch the top of the M Scaler it has nice room temperature and the music is flawless. I am curious what will happen when the M Scaler gets warm.

This made me also realize that the crackles usually come with 16/44 resolution. I was surprised the other day that I don't hear crackling while listening to a 24/96 solo cello album. (I thought then that maybe it was because the frequencies of this specific instrument might hide the noise.)

In other words, it's not impossible that the crackling noise appears when M Scaler has more work to do and gets warmer.

If it comes below 705khz it means the noise is there only on dual BNC mode when both BNC output. So there seems to be a problem of syncing of two bncs. These syncing problem can be due to different resistance of cables or loose or cold solder. Try other matched pair of BNC cables. When i was using HMS with Hugo 2, i diyed a dual BNC cable from fiio RC Ux1 cable which is a very thin cable, so i had syncing problem sometimes in which the Hugo 2 could not lock on 705khz rate. but after getting tt2 and proper 75ohm BNC cables there is no problem. Also somehow I am not convinced of these full length ferrited storm cables. These can cause heavy damage to any BNC socket of any gear on the planet not just HMS and tt2, if not supported properly. Better to get some good pcocc BNC instead.

 

[Christer]

This is a very good point. Just like you write I do hear a lot more recording issues with HMS/TT2 and sometimes I am indeed unsure whether it was a recording glitch or the M Scaler doing its usual electric crackles. In this case I go back in the track and if it's audible again then it's in the recording. When listening to a specific album I can usually quickly identify if the recording has a repeating pattern of issues. Many have. Still, they are always more tolerable than the M Scaler's crackling. Recording issues tend to sound more "organic" while the M Scaler crackling is always "electric".

Note that there is no issue if there is no music playing or the M Scaler is out of the chain. I tested both cases thoroughly for a longer time.

This electric crackling is a rather subtle noise and it only happens maybe a couple of times a minute. I can imagine it would not bother some people who always listen to rock music or so. But if the music isn't loud (e.g., a solo instrument is playing or only human voice is audible, etc.) it can be very annoying and it ruins the experience.

Ok maybe I know what kind of noise you are experiencing?
I had a very strange incident with crackling noise as well recently when I discovered that the internal audio midi setting on my macbook pro was "stuck" on 44.1 while listening to a BBC Proms broadcast.
And for a while after changing the setting in audio midi I got not loud but VERY annoying crackling sounds at irrregular but insistent intervals.
When I checked my mbp I saw that I had not closed audio midi in finder.
I closed audio midi in finder and the problem has been gone since then.
But if "electrostatic like crackling noises" is your issue maybe check your computer if you are using one?
I have never had any similar crackling noise problems with optical from my cd players and HMS.
And compared to USB via my mbp I also hear slightly less hissy background noise as well.
PS today I am listening again to last night's BBC Proms broadcast of Mozart's Opera Die Zauberflöte via streaming and my laptop Qutest/HMS headphone amp and HEKV2 headphones and it sounds very nice indeed in spite of being relatively low res streaming quality.
Nice warm very natural gut strings string sound from the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment and some very good singing too.
I heard this orchestra live some months ago and I have to say the BBC engineers are capturing that wonderful orchestra very well.
The only troubling noise I hear is stage noise. And in parts where there is less stage movement going on just a slight background hiss which disappears if I pause play indicating that it is "part of the parcel" so to say and not anything either Qutest or HMS or my headphone amp are adding or introducing.
Absolutely NO electronic crackling noises at all.
Wonderful performance of one of the most wonderful of all Operas, strongly recommended.
Cheers CC

 

[zenlisten]

Ok maybe I know what kind of noise you are experiencing?

It's not unlike the crackling of old vnyl records but sounds more "electric". High pitched, yet subtle. It was present even if the source was my phone and I was streaming music, so the computer doesn't seem to be the issue.

However, now I have been listening to different kinds of music for almost 3 hours and the music has been flawless. No crackling whatsoever. Simply beautiful. Exactly how it should be. I have no idea what's going on here. The top of the M Scaler isn't warm at all, it has still room temperature. Maybe I touched some of the cables and they are now in a magic constellation? Maybe some neighbors in this 6-apartment house switched off their appliances? No idea.

 

[GreenBow]

It's not unlike the crackling of old vnyl records but sounds more "electric". High pitched, yet subtle. It was present even if the source was my phone and I was streaming music, so the computer doesn't seem to be the issue.

However, now I have been listening to different kinds of music for almost 3 hours and the music has been flawless. No crackling whatsoever. Simply beautiful. Exactly how it should be. I have no idea what's going on here. The top of the M Scaler isn't warm at all, it has still room temperature. Maybe I touched some of the cables and they are now in a magic constellation? Maybe some neighbors in this 6-apartment house switched off their appliances? No idea.

​

Nice to see your hound enjoying music.

 

[zenlisten]

Nice to see your hound enjoying music.

No wonder, my "hound" has had a blast today listening to crackle-free versions of some of his favorite music: Isabella Faust playing Bach Sonatas & Partitas (thanks to @AndrewOld for recommending it!), Matthew Passion by the Dunedin Consort, Arvo Pärt, Miles Davis, Pat Metheny, Al Di Meola, Santana, Biosphere, Laszlo Hortobagyi, Shpongle, Dead Can Dance, Up Bustle & Out, Kruder & Dorfmeister, Efdemin, Pink Floyd, Mike Oldfield, The Prodigy, Nine Inch Nails, Massive Attack, Jan Garbarek, Boozoo Bajou... Can't stop listening!

Without the crackling noises it's like a new system now. Pure joy! What caused the change? No idea. Well, I did remove and reconnect the BNC cables and the USB cable but I did these in the previous days as well. No idea why it's different now but one has to enjoy it until it lasts!

 

[Triode User]

No wonder, my "hound" has had a blast today listening to crackle-free versions of some of his favorite music: Isabella Faust playing Bach Sonatas & Partitas (thanks to @AndrewOld for recommending it!), Matthew Passion by the Dunedin Consort, Arvo Pärt, Miles Davis, Pat Metheny, Al Di Meola, Santana, Biosphere, Laszlo Hortobagyi, Shpongle, Dead Can Dance, Up Bustle & Out, Kruder & Dorfmeister, Efdemin, Pink Floyd, Mike Oldfield, The Prodigy, Nine Inch Nails. Can't stop listening!

Without the crackling noises it's like a new system now. Pure joy! What caused the change? No idea. Well, I did remove and reconnect the BNC cables and the USB cable but I did these in the previous days as well. No idea why it's different now but one has to enjoy it until it lasts!

So happy for you. Maybe your neighbour turned off his wifi extender plugs? You will find out when he plugs them back in.

Over the years I have had all sorts causing noises on my hifi from a laser printer at the other end of the house to an electric fence (for the horses).

 

[zenlisten]

Aaand... the crackles are back. On the right-hand side as usual. No idea why, I tried to avoid touching anything. Maybe the neighbours.