[woodcans]

Try listening with the HMS for several days, then take it out of your system and see what you think.

I have a Dave hooked up to an M Scaler, but your experience mirrors my experience 100%. I have been thinking of explanations to why it is so hard to hear a difference between full 1M taps and pass-through - I guess as an attempt to justify the purchase, in my case 2 M Scalers.
Some of my thoughts:
It may not be the best approach to toggle back and forth between the two modes within a single track, because maybe the qualities of the M Scaler do not reveal themselves in that way.
But several users have reported that 1M taps sound darker. That is not my experience and I am very sensitive to sound colors (warm, cold, dark, bright etc). I do hear more differences between cables than with 1M taps vs pass through in that regard.
Does the sense of tempo change with 1M taps? Well, that is impossible to detect if you toggle back an forth within one track. I think sense of tempo and flow needs to be experienced with a larger piece of music, and the exact same piece of music needs to be used for comparison. But being honest, I don't experience that kind of difference.
More bass with 1M taps? Not to my ears.
I do think to experience a difference in terms of 1M taps sounding more "open" and "free" than pass-through with certain tracks, and that is mainly with acoustical music. Maybe acoustical cues are better heard with the 1M taps? But I am not sure that I could successfully pass a blind test and pick the right mode even 80% of the time.
I have realized that performing listening tests is SO extremely difficult, because the perceived sound is heavily affected by emotional and physical state, and listening for differences between A and B is challenged by our appallingly bad auditory memory. A very strong will to hear differences also clutters your ability to hear any, I guess.

 

[dmance]

@Rob Watts - I am programming an extension in VLC media player for dynamically adjustable audio sync. Tap length for all models and modes work fine ...except for the M Video Mode of 666,666 taps which is claimed (in Chord literature) to result in a 104msec delay. However the math works out to a number much higher ...like 434msec. I know Video Mode is not a true WTA-1 filter. Can you shed light on how the Video Mode taps-to-delay math works? Thanks
Dan

 

[Lgn3]

In the interests of research, and nothing at all to do with me wanting to be distracted from doing some work, I have just spent 15 minutes using the remote to toggle between output sample rates of (in order that they toggle through using the remote) high / pass through/ low / medium. The difference to my ears is clear and very distinct between each of the output sample rates.

I am listening to the album Convergance by Malia and I am playing a ripped version stored on my Innuos SE which streamed over my LAN to an Auralic Aries which inputs to the HMS via Supra USB 2.0 cable. The HMS is outputting to my Dave via WAVE Stream BNC cables and the Dave is fed direct into ATC SCM150ASL active speakers via Canare L-4E6S star quad XLR cables.

I have no idea why some people are reporting subtle or no differences between the output rates of HMS because that is very far from my previous experience and is very far from what I have just heard again just now. It is the same difference I hear when I use the output toggle switch at the back of the Blu Mk2.

If you are thinking of buying an HMS or have one on order, do not panic. The magic factor has not stopped working and there must be some other rational explanation on other systems.

It may be of help to those who are not sharing your experiences with the M Scaler if you could briefly indicate what the differences you hear are e.g. improved soundstage, better dynamics, clearer instrument separation, more realistic timbre etc., or perhaps all of those !! Before reading your post I was about to suggest that providing a full description of the equipment used (as you have just done) and comments on a particular piece of music would be the way to go.

 

[Amberlamps]

I don't see why you should cancel your order on the TT2. The quality of the DAC is fundamental. The M Scaler is not a DAC, so it is like comparing oranges to apples.

I know what you mean, but I would prefer to see whats up with my mscaler first before spending another 4 grand.

Hugo 2 in desktop mode would easily cover my audio needs.

 

[JaZZ]

(...) What does everyone else think when going from 1 million taps to pass through, is there a change that's clearly heard, or is there barely if any change that you can hear?

Yes, in my case the difference is distinct. More accurate transients, less smear, especially with overtones, which also translates to a better sense of depth – not so much in an expanded soundstage, rather better localization in the second dimension (better imaging) with the M Scaler compared to pass-through.

My system is listed in my signature. The above applies to both DAVE and Hugo₂.

 

[SunWarrior]

North American arrival...

Moon Audio, the North Carolina based online retailer, notes on its site that the HMS is now in stock.

Dave, whose HMS is on backorder from another North American based retailer

 

[SuperBurrito]

North American arrival...

whose HMS is on backorder from another North American based retailer

Cool! Looking forward the arrival!

 

[aldavey]

I think the idea of completely removing the HMS from your system for a period of time and then bringing it back is sensible. This would ring true with my experience of starting with TT2 only and then adding HMS. I'll try it when I have the inclination and report back.

 

[Amberlamps]

Yes, in my case the difference is distinct. More accurate transients, less smear, especially with overtones, which also translates to a better sense of depth – not so much in an expanded soundstage, rather better localization in the second dimension (better imaging) with the M Scaler compared to pass-through.

My system is listed in my signature. The above applies to both DAVE and Hugo₂.

Can I ask what type of music do you listen to most, is it all just one genre ?

If it’s more than one genre, is it clearly heard on those also ? Also, does one particular genre stand out as being the best type of music for noticing the mscaler at work ?

 

[JaZZ]

I listen to classical (mostly large-scale), contemporary Jazz, (progressive/alternative/independent) Rock, electronica... The M Scaler effect is rather independent of the genre.

 

[GreenBow]

3) To wrap up the differences between playing a hugo2 into HMS vs a TT2 into HMS. With the TT2/HMS it seems to be focused more on the underlying energy and the impact this has on lifting the music up effortlessly just when you think there might be a dip. The TT2 is powerful but not aggressive or raw as one could expect having not listened to it. It is more akin to a soaring albatross with wings out wide rather than a heavy powerful noisy truck. Coupled with the HMS the result is breathtaking and if i could afford to trade in my H2 for a TT2 i would.

I imagine the TT 2 sounds smoother and more revealing, than the Hugo 2. That's how I find Chord DACs as they go up the line, being due to more detail. I imagine other qualities, and some I can't think of. The Hugo 2 was beyond my expectations so I expect the TT 2 to be.

(Currently playing Peer Gynt - Suite #46 1. Morning mood. Silky: flutes, oboes, and strings.)

I wonder about the idea of trading in equipment. Won't we lose a lot of value. Wouldn't it be better to keep the Hugo 2. I know I would if I bought a TT 2. I would want to keep the Hugo 2, for using when away from the TT 2. Also I would want it for the off-chance that the TT 2 failed or had to be in for repair.

In financial terms, in the UK, the Hugo 2 costs £1800. Whereas how much would trade in be. Maybe £800 - £900. More or less I do not know. However the effect of not trading-in, is someone offering a Hugo 2 to me for £900. I would bite their hand off.

 

[Lgn3]

Source is my pc, Corsair Obsidian 800D case, Asus Z170 gaming mobo, i7 6700K, corsair vengeance 32GB ram, evga 680gtx classified vid card, samsung 850 500gb ssd, Corsair 256gb ssd, ocz summit 120gb x 2 ssd’s, 8 hdd’s, internal and external, logitech g910 keyboard and corsair m65 mouse, corsair ax1600i psu.

Software is windows 10 x64, Roon, tidal, qobuz and Jriver.

I have also tested via usb cable, my iphone directly into the mscaler playing hires files from qobuz and tidal using wifi and not cellular connection. Non airplay wired connection.

A couple of people have mentioned that they don’t hear a difference between 1 million taps and pass through, and I’m not saying anything bad about the mscaler. It clearly works, as this thread and the dave and blu ii thread is proof. It’s just I don’t know if my setup is wrong, which to be honest I don’t think it is, or maybe its something to do with the mscaler or my hugo, or maybe even me ?

I just don’t know if it was caused by me not using hugo for a while, and when I came back to it, maybe I was confusing the excellent sound of hugo as coming from the mscaler ?

I do remember that once when I was moving the mscaler and hugo, I disconnected the bnc cables and then plugged them back in, this time when I tried to test pass through, the music was not there, there was just silence, in order for me to hear the music, I had to select coax 1 on the remote.

I now have the cables arranged on the 3.5mm adapter so that I can go from 1 million taps on coax 2, to pass through and remain on coax 2, no drops in audio etc. The other 3.5mm arrangement means, when switching to pass through, you have to physically switch over to coax 1.

I really don’t know what to think, and I have a TT2 inbound. If what I’m hearing from the mscaler is all I’m gunna get, then I will probably cancel my TT2

What does everyone else think when going from 1 million taps to pass through, is there a change thats clearly heard, or is there barely if any change that you can hear ?

As you are using a number of sources it does not seem likely they can all be set up incorrectly. I think you have to trust your ears particularly as you are seemingly not alone in not hearing much difference using the M Scaler. Out of interest have you tried a different adaptor between BNC's and the 3.5 jack ?

 

[Mikey99]

I have just been carefully listening to tracks from Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (especially Night Fight and Desert Capriccio). Great for assessing imaging, instrument separation, transients as there is lots of percussion, and of course Yo-Yo Ma's exquisite cello performance. On casual listening, the M-Scaler sounds richer, more natural compared to pass-through. Listening more carefully, there is a sort of compression of the image on pass-through - a video comparison might be that it is like taking the 3-D glasses off. The instruments are certainly better separated with the M-Scaler. Each instrument sounds more natural, which clearly comes out when you listen to the bowing on the cello - I think the sharper transients are playing a role here. Another parallel might be that switching to pass-through is like throwing a veil over the instruments.

I find this comes out clearly if you A-B on the same expended passage, say 30 second or so. If just switching back and forth I find it harder to hear. Indeed, at first I had the same reaction as some of you, but the difference soon came out with more careful listening. Now I can tell if it is on bypass right away.

In my system I would say it is evolutionary rather than revolutionary. I bought the Dave for the same qualities I describe above, and I find the M-Scaler is simply giving more of those qualities. It does not fundamentally or dramatically change the sound quality of the Dave, it enhances it.

 

[Triode User]

I imagine the TT 2 sounds smoother than the Hugo 2. That's how I find Chord DACs as they go up the line, being due to more detail. I imagine other qualities, and some I can't think of. The Hugo 2 was beyond my expectations so I expect the TT 2 to be.

(Currently playing Peer Gynt - Suite #46 1. Morning mood. Silky flutes, oboes, and strings.)

I wonder about the idea of trading in equipment. Won't we lose a lot of value. Wouldn't it be better to keep the Hugo 2. I know I would if I bought a TT 2. I would want to keep the Hugo 2, for using when away from the TT 2. Also I would want it for the off-chance that the TT 2 failed or had to be in for repair.

In financial terms, in the UK, the Hugo 2 costs £1800. Whereas how much would trade in be. Maybe £800 - £900. More or less I do not know. However the effect of not trading-in, is someone offering a Hugo 2 to me for £900. I would bite their hand off.

Much better than trade in is to sell it yourself and then get a cash sale discount off the dealer when you buy a TT2.

H2 recent sold prices on uk eBay are between £1200 and £1500. So the total difference between that route and trading in could be worthwhile.

 

[jlbrach]

i own the blu2 with the dave and i find the only way to compare the dave alone to the dave with the blu2 is to listen for periods of time....some recording are just flat out awful and it is difficult for me to discern differences or at least positive differences with such grating recordings....on the other hand well recorded and mastered music truly brings out the beauty of the blu2 and i assume the m-scaler....that is why i never found blind listening tests very valuable.....this is my experience, others may differ

The dave was already an incredibly good DAC...the blu2 or m-scaler is refining it,making it better not changing it into a different product